Biden flips the switch on Trump's incandescent light bulb plan

[Taylor]

Student loan debt is holding our economy back.

The government needs to get out of the business of promoting them.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Most Dems, too.

Well that’s true too.

But claiming that Republican voters should be friendly to a policy because W enacted it is a bad argument, remember Trump won primaries after directly telling Jeb that “your brother lied us into war” and the Republican media class was shocked and declared Trump was done, it turns out most of the Republican base had long since soured on George W. A lot of the Neo conservative outlets founded to carry Ws water like the Weekly Standard collapsed after 2016. Just look at the “never Trump” Republicans, they were all dedicated Bush supporters

 

[Threegoofs]

It started with G.W., though!

What?!?

The GOP is responsible for this attack on our freedoms?

I’m shocked.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The government needs to get out of the business of promoting them.

And that’s the problem.

I have no real issue on principle with forgiving student loan debt, because a lot of people were sold a bill of goods and defrauded in my mind. My problem is with the idea loan forgiveness should be an entitlement. And the attitude of those who wants this is that they’re entitled to it and there’s never discussion about making colleges bear at least part of this cost.

I think student loans should be forgiven in exchange for useful actions like getting married and having kids. If you have like 2 or 3 kids in wedlock that’s should be the hook. You get your loans forgiven up to a certain amount that way.

And college endowments will be taxed to pay for some of this cost

 

[AGENT J]

Oven?

yep lol

 

[Chomsky]

What?!?

The GOP is responsible for this attack on our freedoms?

I’m shocked.

RTFM!

The move is the culmination of a decades-long, bipartisan effort to phase out inefficient light bulbs. Energy efficiency standards were included in an energy bill passed under the George W. Bush administration and implemented during the Obama administration.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

One exception would be for ceilings fans. The LED household ‘bulbs’ would have to be changed as well - most now in use require AC power. I replaced all the #1056 (12v DC) bulbs in our travel trailer with LED ‘bulbs’.

Of course, and none of this is going to happen overnight.
By the way, if a Dyson vacuum cleaner can generate massive suction power using a DC motor, stands to reason a ceiling fan can too, but also please remember that, as a fellow DP member just pointed out, the newest USB specs now allow up to 48 volts, thus a siamesed pair of USB-PD ports can deliver more than enough voltage and current to run a ceiling fan.
Lastly, no one is saying that 120 VAC has to go away, saying that in 2022 it's not necessary for a large portion of devices that we use every day. If it turns out ceiling fans do better with 120 VAC then 120 VAC will remain the choice for ceiling fans.
But these new ideas are still paving the way for a massive rethink in HOW we USE our electricity.
The changeover will be, like most things of this nature, gradual. There are STILL a small amount of rotary dial telephones out there and the telco system still accepts rotary dial pulses if for no other reason than they are human compatible.
You can still dial any phone number with just a speaker diaphragm and two wires and you can talk and listen (although you would have to speak loudly w/a speaker only)
It's a good emergency provision for 9-1-1 at the very least.

At best, the goal of this electric grid rethink is to massively REDUCE dependence on high voltage AC power at the point of end use in residential and small offices. The main point is, most stuff we use today can use a fraction of the electric power they used to require. Anything that we do to further adapt to such use profiles increases our efficiency and reduces the amount of electricity that we waste.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Of course, and none of this is going to happen overnight.
By the way, if a Dyson vacuum cleaner can generate massive suction power using a DC motor, stands to reason a ceiling fan can too, but also please remember that, as a fellow DP member just pointed out, the newest USB specs now allow up to 48 volts, thus a siamesed pair of USB-PD ports can deliver more than enough voltage and current to run a ceiling fan.
Lastly, no one is saying that 120 VAC has to go away, saying that in 2022 it's not necessary for a large portion of devices that we use every day. If it turns out ceiling fans do better with 120 VAC then 120 VAC will remain the choice for ceiling fans.
But these new ideas are still paving the way for a massive rethink in HOW we USE our electricity.
The changeover will be, like most things of this nature, gradual. There are STILL a small amount of rotary dial telephones out there and the telco system still accepts rotary dial pulses if for no other reason than they are human compatible.
You can still dial any phone number with just a speaker diaphragm and two wires and you can talk and listen (although you would have to speak loudly w/a speaker only)
It's a good emergency provision for 9-1-1 at the very least.

At best, the goal of this electric grid rethink is to massively REDUCE dependence on high voltage AC power at the point of end use in residential and small offices. The main point is, most stuff we use today can use a fraction of the electric power they used to require. Anything that we do to further adapt to such use profiles increases our efficiency and reduces the amount of electricity that we waste.

OK, so long we can voluntarily ease into these better alternatives. What many seem to want is forced obsolescence to go “green” ASAP.

 

[RealityNow]

No this is not a made up issue.

While you may have the time to galivant all over the place to purchase light bulbs or anything else, there's a good number of people who do not have the luxury known as time to do so.

While you have the good fortune of putting up 70 dollars for a membership to shop at Sam's Club or Costcos or even pay 10-15 bucks for a pass to shop on any given day, there are a good number of people who do not. And the number of people who can't is growing. Many folks live from payday to payday. They purchase just what they need. They don't have the luxury of affording to buy in bulk. They are struggling right now just to fill up their gas tanks so they can get to work. They don't have the luxury of burning that gas running around looking for a "good deal".

The inflation we are experiencing, has a lot to do with this administration's policies targeting fossil fuels from day one. And they did so while this country and the world was dealing with the pandemic. When the cost of energy goes up so does the cost of just about everything.

The ships that deliver goods use fossil fuels. The trucks that deliver goods run on fossil fuels. The overwhelming majority of the people and industry use fossil fuels to heat and cool, run big machinery, down to something like a lawnmower or snowblower. Much of the packaging materials used for many products like Styrofoam and shrink-wraps along with an array of other items are made from fossil fuel derivatives. Farmers rely heavily on fossil fuels to plant and harvest their crops. At every stage of producing the final product and getting it to the shelves in stores, has become more expensive because of the cost of oil and is reflected in the cost in just about every item. And the people it hurts the most are the poor, middle class, those on fixed incomes like the disabled and the retired. Way to go!

You are pushing an agenda that is not founded in principle fact based and backed knowledge.

Oil and the Fuel it produces is an Oil Industry Generated Issue, NOT a U.S. Government Administrative Issue. Oil Companies have been hoarding and sitting on Lease... they won't drill, they hoard them to keep people who will drill from getting those leases, so they can keep the Oil prices high, by stifling and controlling production. Energy Policies of an Administration Take Years to Implement and bring to the desired goal, and in the mean time, there is collateral concern and focus to build up the infrastructure for renewable energy.
People would understand this if they READ, rather than fall for any line of defeatist spin promoted by Right Wing Media, that does not deal with facts and details or process and procedural function and timelines.

It amazes me how people can get so old and not know these things about "Structure, facts, details, process and procedures and timelines... and be so callous to willfully submit themselves to be led by "talking heads in the media spinning passed along folklore and wrapping it in "drama antics"... Geez!!!

It's a solid fact that you have read not a single document of the details or even the overview of the Presidential Agenda. The worst part is, you likely will not read any of it, nor will you do research to get the facts and even if reading it, one can't get over the "drama antics" they ingest enough to even understand the factors that compose the facts.

WE NEED A BETTER EDUCATED SOCIETY....​

Besides all of that, Every Electric Company in the Country, send out frequent info on energy efficiency and they have programs that give people discounts for energy efficient upgrades. They also have various plans that people can take advantage of... but people won't even read enough to pay attention to those provisions.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

@ttwtt78640 ---- here is another example scenario.

In the early 1980's I bought my first "computing device", an AMPEX ADO (Ampex Digital Optics) which was a digital device used to create a ton of very well known and recognized "special effects" that we have all seen countless times on television.
My electric bill SKYROCKETED.
It did because the first gen ADO units used a very simple AC power supply and I'd guess that about 75% of what it put out was actually heat. One day a salesman at "The Broadcast Store" asked me if I'd like to purchase a 2nd gen "digital power supply" to up the efficiency of the unit --- and prolong its lifespan.
It was, he said, a matter of four screws and two connectors to the main board, SOUND FAMILIAR?
It was a power supply made by Lambda and it lived up to its name immediately. Suddenly I wasn't heating my house and my power bill went back down to a dull roar.
It was also much quieter.

 

[The Mark]

And that’s the problem.

I have no real issue on principle with forgiving student loan debt, because a lot of people were sold a bill of goods and defrauded in my mind. My problem is with the idea loan forgiveness should be an entitlement. And the attitude of those who wants this is that they’re entitled to it and there’s never discussion about making colleges bear at least part of this cost.

I think student loans should be forgiven in exchange for useful actions like getting married and having kids. If you have like 2 or 3 kids in wedlock that’s should be the hook. You get your loans forgiven up to a certain amount that way.

And college endowments will be taxed to pay for some of this cost

I consider education and training some of the most important things needed for the improvement of the overall standard of living in the USA.

I also don't think that available funds or credit are an accurate measure of merit.

Thus, I conclude that further subsidizing education and training is an appropriate usage of taxpayer funds.
This would allow those who cannot otherwise afford it but have the ability to contribute more to the economy.

Assuming, of course, that there are some standards/requirements, to prevent abuse of the opportunity offered.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You are pushing an agenda that is not founded in principle back knowledge. Oil and the Fuel it produces is purely an Oil Industry Issue, NOT an Administrative Issue. Oil Companies have been hoarding and sitting on Lease... they won't drill, they hoard them to keep people who will drill from getting those leases, so they can keep the Oil prices high, by stifling and controlling production. Energy Policies of an Administration Take Years to Implement and bring to the desired goal, and in the mean time, there is collateral concern and focus to build up the infrastructure for renewable energy.
People would understand this if they READ, rather than fall for any line of defeatist spin promoted by Right Wing Media, that does not deal with facts and details or process and procedural function and timelines.

It amazes me how people can get so old and not know these things about "Structure, facts, details, process and procedures and timelines... and be so callous to willfully submit themselves to be led by "talking heads in the media spinning passed along folklore and wrapping it in "drama antics"... Geez!!!

It's a solid fact that you have read not a single document of the details or even the overview of the Presidential Agenda. The worst part is, you likely will not read any of it, nor will you do research to get the facts and even if reading it, one can't get over the "drama antics" they ingest enough to even understand the factors that compose the facts.

WE NEED A BETTER EDUCATED SOCIETY....​

Besides all of that, Every Electric Company in the Country, send out frequent info on energy efficiency and they have programs that give people discounts for energy efficient upgrades. They also have various plans that people can take advantage of... but people won't even read enough to pay attention to those provisions.

Knowledge is power, but ignorance is bliss. Fight the power!

 

[ttwtt78640]

@ttwtt78640 ---- here is another example scenario.

In the early 1980's I bought my first "computing device", an AMPEX ADO (Ampex Digital Optics) which was a digital device used to create a ton of very well known and recognized "special effects" that we have all seen countless times on television.
My electric bill SKYROCKETED.
It did because the first gen ADO units used a very simple AC power supply and I'd guess that about 75% of what it put out was actually heat. One day a salesman at "The Broadcast Store" asked me if I'd like to purchase a 2nd gen "digital power supply" to up the efficiency of the unit --- and prolong its lifespan.
It was, he said, a matter of four screws and two connectors to the main board, SOUND FAMILIAR?
It was a power supply made by Lambda and it lived up to its name immediately. Suddenly I wasn't heating my house and my power bill went back down to a dull roar.
It was also much quieter.

Yep, many IC powered generators are very inefficient - they run at a constant RPM regardless of power demand. The ‘inverter’ type slow down (to idle) as demand drops and produce ‘cleaner’ power, but they cost more. Most often, you get what you pay for.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I consider education and training some of the most important things needed for the improvement of the overall standard of living in the USA.

Ok? So what? A private jet and a mansion improves standard of living.

I also don't think that available funds or credit are an accurate measure of merit.

Whether they are or not doesn’t really matter. Doesn’t a really good person deserve a private jet?

Thus, I conclude that further subsidizing education and training is an appropriate usage of taxpayer funds.

This is debatable.

This would allow those who cannot otherwise afford it but have the ability to contribute more to the economy.

There are many options that allow one to contribute more to the economy. My fiancée got to go to university for free because of her low income situation and never had loans, we already have many ways for one to qualify for lower or no tuition

Assuming, of course, that there are some standards/requirements, to prevent abuse of the opportunity offered.

We have such programs already.

In addition primary education is universally free across the entire country

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

OK, so long we can voluntarily ease into these better alternatives. What many seem to want is forced obsolescence to go “green” ASAP.

When the French decided to move to color television, the country had a black and white 809 line TV system in place.
Yes, 809 lines IS indeed almost high definition, but it was black and white.
The French SECAM system (SEquential Couleur Avec Memoire) debuted it was almost overnight!

France's president, General DeGaulle literally held a switch in his hand and announced
"Et maintenant, le COLEUR!" (and now, the COLOR!) and instantly all black and white TV's in France became obsolete and nonfunctional although fortunately TV was still mostly a novel playtoy for wealthy people at that time.

But still, it was everything you point out now, a government dictated switchover with no advance prep time, for a government owned and operated service. TV was a goverment monopoly in France back then.
And SECAM was NOT compatible at all because it wasn't even the same resolution or frame rate as the old system.

Contrast that with the TEN YEAR advance notice that Americans got about the proposed move to digital high definition TV here in the USA, which began in the late 1990's as experimental.
The last analog standard definition broadcasts CEASED in June 2009.
AND, the US government did also hand out MILLIONS of subsidized CONVERTER boxes so that people who still had serviceable analog TV sets could tune IN to the new HD broadcasts anyway. The set top boxes simply DOWN-CONVERTED the HD back to standard def analog so it would display on the PICTURE TUBE (CRT) sets.
The worst issue was the fact that the SQUARE (4:3 aspect ratio) CRT picture tube screens now displayed TV in "letterbox format" which is the current 16:9 widescreen rectangular format.

So I think it is safe to say that Uncle Sam wants to use a lesson from the HD switchover and do things in a manner consistent with ordinary natural progress where serviceable components reach their end of life and get swapped out normally. People who want to remodel will gradually learn of new available options while more and more NEW homes would begin to OFFER said options as a default unless otherwise specified, and the incentive would be both savings and possibly even partial subsidies to offset initial costs to install.

Oh yeah, one more thing:
The switchover from analog standard def to high def in ALL of Europe was ALSO as gradual and advanced prepped over there as it was here. I used to make SCADS of dough doing "overseas VHS conversions" so that immigrants could watch their old tapes over here on the US "NTSC" standard. They would bring all their Euro or Middle Eastern (or whatever) VHS tapes and I would dub them onto new tapes through a converter. (a very very EXPENSIVE pro-grade converter)

 

[Threegoofs]

RTFM!

So Obama wasn’t responsible for this horrible attack on freedom?

Would have never guessed based on the Fox News stories.

Fox: Obama Wants to Take Away Your Light Bulbs

The Energy Independence and Security Act, which was signed by President Bush in 2007, actually sets basic energy efficiency standards for light bulbs and does not explicitly ban the incandescent kind. But those details weren't reported on Fox, because, well, it doesn't fit their narrative

www.mediamatters.org

 

[RealityNow]

It started with G.W., though!

American was Globalist before it even became America.... that's why the British, the French, the Spaniard's and Others were here as they were also in many other places. In the 20th Century, Nixon added an additional dynamics, when he exported Ore Processing to China and many Textile, and Other Industries followed the process over the following decades.
G.W. Bush, basically told the people, of "The New World Order"... he did not create it... he made people more aware that it exist...
Bretton Woods Accord, and Bretton Woods Accord II and III has long met its challenger as Nations began to sustain themselves after the decades before devastation they suffered from Hitler's Nazi Plundering.

 

[MTAtech]

Ohhhh GOD....
You know, I absolutely LOVE watching "Roadkill" but when they start waxing poetic about their "Holly 850 cfm double pumper" four barrel carburetors I roll my eyes. FFS just install a fuelie and get it overwith!!!
I actually still find myself occasionally pumping the gas before starting a car.
The other day my wife looked over...."It's a fuel injected engine, remember?" (She was a mechanic in the Navy LOL)

"It's not a 440 six-pack!"

View attachment 67387845

Aye aye, sir...

Does pumping the pedal do anything before the car starts? I thought it was now an electrical, not mechanical connection.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Does pumping the pedal do anything before the car starts? I thought it was now an electrical, not mechanical connection.

That's what I was getting at...in the old days with carburetors, pumping the pedal forced a couple of sprays of fuel into the intake, so there was something flammable the moment the crankshaft turned over.
Back when I used to have big ole MoPars you HAD to sit there and go pump-pump-pump-pump and then crank it till the engine roared to life, set the choke and let it warm up, till the thrum of the V8 sounded like boogity boogity boogity.

On a fuel injected engine, pumping the gas pedal does exactly ----- NOTHING, even if it is still a mechanical connection, still does nothing because there's no carburetor and thus no float bowl full of gasoline to pump into anything.
The injectors will inject as soon as you crank it over, and not because you went "pump-pump-pump-pump", but because the fuel pressure already was there in the first place as soon as you turned the key to ON.

It's just an old habit that dies hard and it tells people that I am really an old man hahaha.
Also makes Karen laugh pretty hard sometimes.

"Ya miss that old Chrysler, dontcha?"

Tell ya what I DON'T miss!!!

 

[Chomsky]

Well that’s true too.

But claiming that Republican voters should be friendly to a policy because W enacted it is a bad argument, remember Trump won primaries after directly telling Jeb that “your brother lied us into war” and the Republican media class was shocked and declared Trump was done, it turns out most of the Republican base had long since soured on George W. A lot of the Neo conservative outlets founded to carry Ws water like the Weekly Standard collapsed after 2016. Just look at the “never Trump” Republicans, they were all dedicated Bush supporters

That claim was not made.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That claim was not made.

 

[Chomsky]

View attachment 67388126

As I said.