• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

between cartoons and mistreating

acrobat

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
peoples arround the world are rioting and protesting against that cartoons
but the freedom of speech is more important even if sometimes hurts cause under that freedom of speech that the pictures of mistreating in iraq ve been published .
i find verry interresting to see the differance of the interpretation of the informations in differante countries here you have a shorcuts of differantes
news video bulletins from the most popular tv chanels
www.news-links.net
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Not everyone in the world has the Right "Freedom of Speech." Also freedom isn't freedom, when it entrudes on someone else's freedom. I don't think it was too smart for the artist to criticize the same people who use car bombs? :confused: :mrgreen:
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
stsburns said:
Not everyone in the world has the Right "Freedom of Speech." Also freedom isn't freedom, when it entrudes on someone else's freedom. I don't think it was too smart for the artist to criticize the same people who use car bombs? :confused: :mrgreen:
So exactly how is publishing a cartoon intruding on someone else's freedom?
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kelzie said:
So exactly how is publishing a cartoon intruding on someone else's freedom?
Offending is intruding....Which I would have to say I am the king of! But when I mess with you guys, you can't come after me. You would only know what I give ya...We should respect other cultures, even if we don't agree with them. Besides the fact who wants to mess with people who are known for pulling off assainations, I mean really. Does they artist have balls, or do they have a death wish? I mean its the same reason why people don't mess with the mob.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
stsburns said:
Offending is intruding. We should respect other cultures, even if we don't agree with them. Besides the fact who wants to mess with people who are known for pulling off assainations, I mean really. Does they artist have balls, or do they have a death wish? I mean its the same reason why people don't mess with the mob.
Ah, no. No it's not. There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. Bet all those politicians are offended when political cartoonists make fun of them. And yet they don't say a peep. Ann Coulture offends liberals every day. And yet she can still do it. One of the greater things about America actually. Here's a little hint. If you don't want to be offended....don't read it!
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The reason most American newspapers haven't printed the cartoons has nothing to do with respect for the Islamic faith, which they openly disdain. They're simply AFRAID to print them. If this kind of self-censorship becomes commonplace, it will be a tragedy.

On another note, why should I respect such an ***-backward culture?
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kelzie said:
Ah, no. No it's not. There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. Bet all those politicians are offended when political cartoonists make fun of them. And yet they don't say a peep. Ann Coulture offends liberals every day. And yet she can still do it. One of the greater things about America actually. Here's a little hint. If you don't want to be offended....don't read it!
So how can you keep your self from reading it...per say? Or hearing about it? Or seeing it on TV after you just avoided it the last 2 damn times? :confused:

Ann Coulture can because no libertarian is going to come knock down her door and shoot her dead. I mean that's what they call it gun control isn't it?

Americans are very restrained people when it comes to politics. Other countries, politics is dealt in life and death.
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kandahar said:
If this kind of self-censorship becomes commonplace, it will be a tragedy.
So we should **** everybody off? Well good luck on that one? Surely you can name me ONE thing you are tolerant of?
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
stsburns said:
So how can you keep your self from reading it...per say? Or hearing about it? Or seeing it on TV after you just avoided it the last 2 damn times? :confused:

Ann Coulture can because no libertarian is going to come knock down her door and shoot her dead. I mean that's what they call it gun control isn't it?

Americans are very restrained people when it comes to politics. Other countries, politics is dealt in life and death.
If I'm a liberal, and I don't like being offended, I won't listen to/buy conservative opinions. It's really a very simple concept.

And you're basically saying we should give up our freedoms because some people might become violent? Sorry. Not all of us scare that easily.
 

acrobat

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
you can complain for the offending but never censure
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
acrobat said:
you can complain for the offending but never censure
Sure. They can write as many letters as they want.
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kelzie said:
If I'm a liberal, and I don't like being offended, I won't listen to/buy conservative opinions. It's really a very simple concept.

And you're basically saying we should give up our freedoms because some people might become violent? Sorry. Not all of us scare that easily.
So people are suppose to self censor? :confused: Because you don't have any problem censoring yourself? What freedoms did YOU give up by not listening to your opponent?

I'm not being scared, I am recognizing what they are capable of. You don't "F" with people who are willing to give their lives to take away yours. IT'S CALLED RESPECT!

Since you are a "Liberal" does that mean you are given the right to offend every "Conservate/Republican" you see?

How many times do I have to say this. OTHER COUNTRIES DO NOT HONOR THE "FREEDOM OF SPEECH." IT CAN ONLY BE REDEAMED IN AMERICA!
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
stsburns said:
So we should **** everybody off?
It's a major news event, so yes, newspapers should show people what all the fuss is about.

stsburns said:
Well good luck on that one? Surely you can name me ONE thing you are tolerant of?
Freedom of expression.
 

stsburns

American Infidel
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
46
Location
Pergatory
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kandahar said:
It's a major news event, so yes, newspapers should show people what all the fuss is about.
So it is the "The News" 's job to offend? I would have sworn it was to "inform?"

Freedom of expression.
What about your opposition's freedom of expression? Whatever it may be expressed as?
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
stsburns said:
So it is the "The News" 's job to offend? I would have sworn it was to "inform?"
And publishing the cartoons would inform a lot of Americans what all the fuss is about, since most have never even seen them. They didn't have any problem publishing pictures of **** Christ. The editorial pages of most major newspapers hold Islam in open disdain. So not publishing the cartoons is obviously not simply a matter of religious sensitivity.

stsburns said:
What about your opposition's freedom of expression? Whatever it may be expressed as?
If it involves burning down embassies and calling for the beheadings of cartoonists, then it's no longer simply freedom of expression.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Although it's not a legal issue, I think the media SHOULD censor themselves in interest of others...Just as anyone has a LEGAL right to walk into a room full of Mexicans and start screaming "F--- the wetbacks!"...

Legal?...Of course...

Ethical?...Of course not...

Chances of getting out alive?...slim...

But I think the issue people have with the media is that they don't do this across the board...

They will offend and agitate AS LONG AS the rebuttal will not be extreme...Otherwise, they don't give a rat's ***..

Here's a perfect example...

CNN's own article said:
CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam.
CNN's own article said:
"The Holy Virgin Mary" by British artist Chris Ofili. He used elephant dung and images of female genitalia in that work.
Of course, the article SHOWS the picture...Where's the respect for Christianity?...

Then there's that little "PissChrist" artful representation...the one that's been on their website until they convieniently removed it...

The issue isn't "respect"...That should be a given...The issue is WHEN that respect is given...The media has clearly made their position..."Only when it serves our best interests."....:roll:
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
"Respect" and "tolerance".

Respect = fear by the looks of it, and tolerance = apologia.

I don't respect a person simply because they are violent. Respect is something else entirely, as it is only earned through the formation of a relationship and only applies when mutual.

As far as tolerance is concerned, why tolerate the intolerant? Those who have been rioting are the very same who extend the least tolerance towards others and are of such a totalitarian mindset as to represent the very antithesis of tolerance.

Heck, if Jewish people burned down embasies every time they were target of hate cartoons in the Arab and greater Islamic world over the years, there would be no embasies from any Islamic country left standing in the entire world.


I think tolerance and respect are fine ideals as long as we really understand that such notions are a TWO way street and not just a one. It subverts their meaning to expect anything less.
 

tryreading

Steve
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
4,809
Reaction score
764
Location
Central Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
stsburns said:
So people are suppose to self censor? :confused: Because you don't have any problem censoring yourself? What freedoms did YOU give up by not listening to your opponent?

I'm not being scared, I am recognizing what they are capable of. You don't "F" with people who are willing to give their lives to take away yours. IT'S CALLED RESPECT!

Since you are a "Liberal" does that mean you are given the right to offend every "Conservate/Republican" you see?

How many times do I have to say this. OTHER COUNTRIES DO NOT HONOR THE "FREEDOM OF SPEECH." IT CAN ONLY BE REDEAMED IN AMERICA!
These people, or their leaders, want the power to control other countries, at least their media. They are selfish fanatical hypocrites. They want a country that allows freedom of the press not to publish pictures of their prophet, and resort to threats and violence to attempt to coerce them not to. This is a group which is self-important enough to demand that free societies control their media where Islam is concerned, also the group that affected an election outcome in Spain, and would damage the world economy every chance they get by destroying buildings and killing people. How pompous is that, to have the gall to want to determine what is appropriate expression in other societies? If they could, they would adopt and enforce shariya law worldwide. They are not important, to me, except where they require military attention.

I am only talking about the fanatics here, not normal Muslim people.
 

doughgirl

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
1,619
Reaction score
60
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
“Not everyone in the world has the Right "Freedom of Speech." Also freedom isn't freedom, when it entrudes on someone else's freedom. I don't think it was too smart for the artist to criticize the same people who use car bombs?”

Just out of curiousity, who do you think doesn’t have the right to have free speech?

How are publishing these cartoons infringing on anyones freedoms? Let them publish something back if they are so mad.

So we kiss the arse of the Muslims who are rioting………..? No way. Teach them a lesson……..round them up and prosecute them………put them behind bars. (The ones who are rioting) Then they can spend the whole day hitting their heads on the cells and screaming whatever they want.

“We should respect other cultures, even if we don't agree with them. Besides the fact who wants to mess with people who are known for pulling off assainations, I mean really. Does they artist have balls, or do they have a death wish? I mean its the same reason why people don't mess with the mob.”

So we are to respect their culture but they should not be forced to respect anyone elses? Ha ha

People have and do mess with the mob. Thank God. If they hadn’t this country would be run by it.

So really what your saying is this………..we do not need police in this country. Everyone should just keep their mouths shut and let evil prevail?

Kelzie is right when she said…..“There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. Bet all those politicians are offended when political cartoonists make fun of them. And yet they don't say a peep. Ann Colture offends liberals every day. And yet she can still do it. One of the greater things about America actually. Here's a little hint. If you don't want to be offended....don't read it!”

I am offended by things said or done or printed against Jesus Christ. So? I do as Kelzie suggests, I do not watch or read questionable material.

We all know who Howard Stern is. Personally I think on every level he is a scum bag, a low life pathetic human being. He makes fun of Christians, is for abortion and thinks its fun….he basically is evil in my opinion. So I do not watch him in anything or listen to him even if he is interviewed. He has the right to say whatever he wishes………..but I do not have to watch or listen to him.

I like Ann Coulter most the time. She is absolutely brilliant and a very good debater. Not many will go up against her. But do I agree with everything she says? No. She ticked me off real good when Bush nominated that first woman to the Supreme Court. She hung her out to dry for no good reason. She had the right to do it.

I mainly post in the abortion threads. There are people posting there that think it is alright to kill a 9 month unborn child, because the woman has the right. They are graphically for abortion. They have the right to their views and if it offended me that much I wouldnt read what they had to say or go back. I go back because I think good should stand up to evil.

If this thread makes you mad then EXIT AT THE NEAREST DOOR and quit whinning……..
 

justone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
3,379
Reaction score
161
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
stsburns said:
I'm not being scared, I am recognizing what they are capable of. You don't "F" with people who are willing to give their lives to take away yours. IT'S CALLED RESPECT!
Let me respectfully desagree. If you are willing to give your life to take away main, I am willing to show you all my respect by shooting you first, like a mad dog; and then I may ask you what did make you mad? You loot, we shoot! Full respect, no questions asked.
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The whole cartoon thing is nothing but BS. Just like the War against Muslims, which they spout like a parrot. Errrr…Holly war, Holly war, Holly war.
If it wasnt this it would be something else.

They claim to be sooooooo peaceful but yet offer up to $1million for the heads of the cartoonist and not give that money to aid their own people who suffer.

I still wonder what they will say when they do get the Holly War they desire.
What will they say when Islam is wiped off the face of the Earth?


Ps. Yes I’m in a bad mood I’m getting over a cold.
 

JOHNYJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
567
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Watchig the Barbarians on tv should give us all pause. To thank God we were born in America the Greatest country in the world ! LONG LIVE DENMARK
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
24,723
Reaction score
9,877
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
stsburns said:
Not everyone in the world has the Right "Freedom of Speech." Also freedom isn't freedom, when it entrudes on someone else's freedom. I don't think it was too smart for the artist to criticize the same people who use car bombs? :confused: :mrgreen:

Yes, instead Denmark should have scrutinized and restricted everything they do by running it past the "SMC" (Sensitive Muslim Committee). While the Western World is at it, we may as well turn back the clock and oppress our women. (Wouldn't want to offend the Muslim community.) Hell, us being "infidels" seems to be a reason for their Radical element to destroy and murder, so we should all switch religions too (Sorry Jesus and Buddha). Mmmmmmm...of course, we should all be careful and choose which sect we want to fall under. With them killing each other over their tribal roots, we should choose the one with the upper hand.

We should all do the "smart" thing and do everything we can to not antagonize people who use car bombs.










By the way...enjoy this cartoon....http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom