Bernie Sanders to vote for Hillary

[11Bravo]

I figured all along if he didn't get the nomination he would support Hillary over the Republican nominee, especially if that nominee was Trump. It is the lesser of two evils game that most Americans play. Maybe if the Republicans hadn't nominated such a dangerous person Bernie would be more likely to play hard ball. Maybe not.

It is a little easier for a nobody like me to vote their conscience and say they are going to vote Green or Libertarian. Realistically it doesn't matter in the big picture. If Bernie comes out and says not to vote for Hillary, that will be a big help to Trump. And I think Bernie views a Trump presidency as far worse than the same old bad we are used to.

I get it. Pragmatism is often disappointing and unsatisfying. I will probably vote Green. But if I were in his shoes? I don't know.

Donald and Hildabeast as not the only candidates he can support...

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The mere fact that we will have Obama 2.0 (which would be Bush3.0) is why I will never vote for Hillary.

Well your choice is Obama 2.0 or Bush 2.0.

 

[danarhea]

I'm confused as to your presence on this thread. If you want to bash trump, feel free. Maybe on a thread where he's relevant.

Well, you kind of opened it up for Trump when you posted about Bernie voting for Hillary, and how that just seems to be off base, when there are Republicans who want to revolt and remove Trump as the nominee, despite his winning an outright majority of votes. So yes, the 2 issues are intertwined. How can you bash Bernie for voting for Hillary, while at the same telling people to shut up about overthrowing Trump as the nominee? Doesn't seem very honest.

 

[11Bravo]

Well your choice is Obama 2.0 or Bush 2.0.

Excuse me? Obama is Bush 2.0. Hillary is no different than Obama.

 

[Surrealistik]

As ever Bernie's support is almost certainly contingent on getting platform concessions from Hillary, and he thinks he can achieve that, hence the 'probably'.


Personally I'd be willing however grudgingly to give Clinton my vote if only to keep Trump out of the office, but there's no way I can bring myself to do it if she keeps refusing to compromise on matters of policy; our support is and has always been hers to lose.

 

[11Bravo]

Well, you kind of opened it up for Trump when you posted about Bernie voting for Hillary, and how that just seems to be off base, when there are Republicans who want to revolt and remove Trump as the nominee, despite his winning an outright majority of votes. So yes, the 2 issues are intertwined. How can you bash Bernie for voting for Hillary, while at the same telling people to shut up about overthrowing Trump as the nominee? Doesn't seem very honest.

That's a good point. You can create a thread that brings relevance to that.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Donald and Hildabeast as not the only candidates he can support...

I hear ya. I will be voting third party myself. As I said, it is easy to vote your conscience when you are a nobody, politically speaking. If Bernie came out and supported Jill Stein, the person I am likely to vote for, it would be huge for the Green party. They might even be included in the debates. But the most likely outcome in that scenario is Trump becomes President due to the left's vote being split. Now, if the Republicans had nominated a more predictable person like Bush, Rubio, or Kasich, a Republican win might be worth getting the word out. But the Republicans are nominating Trump. It is possible that Bernie sees that as a risk not worth taking.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Excuse me? Obama is Bush 2.0. Hillary is no different than Obama.

I agree with that. Though I think Hillary is marginally closer to Bush than Obama.

 

[Frank Apisa]

For those of you giving your vote grudgingly to Hillary Clinton...

...I would suggest you reconsider.

You ought to be giving it to her with enthusiasm.

She will further a progressive agenda...no matter the nonsense being spattered about regarding her conservative sentiments. She IS a progressive...and anyone buying into the conservative propaganda to the contrary, is being short-sighted.

There is absolutely no doubt that she will make a much, much better president than the only viable alternative, Donald Trump.

 

[Surrealistik]

For those of you giving your vote grudgingly to Hillary Clinton...

...I would suggest you reconsider.

You ought to be giving it to her with enthusiasm.

She will further a progressive agenda...no matter the nonsense being spattered about regarding her conservative sentiments. She IS a progressive...and anyone buying into the conservative propaganda to the contrary, is being short-sighted.

Never; grudging is the absolute best she's ever going to get and she should be thankful for even that much if it happens.

She's not a progressive, she's a third way neoliberal firmly in the pocket of her donors and no amount of sophistry or misdirection will ever change that.

That she's not as bad as Trump in no way changes or obviates this; the woman is essentially to the right of the Canadian Conservatives for ****s sake. The US political frame of reference is hilariously skewed.

 

[11Bravo]

I hear ya. I will be voting third party myself. As I said, it is easy to vote your conscience when you are a nobody, politically speaking. If Bernie came out and supported Jill Stein, the person I am likely to vote for, it would be huge for the Green party. They might even be included in the debates. But the most likely outcome in that scenario is Trump becomes President due to the left's vote being split. Now, if the Republicans had nominated a more predictable person like Bush, Rubio, or Kasich, a Republican win might be worth getting the word out. But the Republicans are nominating Trump. It is possible that Bernie sees that as a risk not worth taking.

Bad field of Republicans and Democrats this time around. How did we let this happen

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Bad field of Republicans and Democrats this time around. How did we let this happen

I predict a lot of books will be written trying to answer that question.

 

[manise]

Bernie Sanders: I'll probably vote for Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Ok. I just saw on Facebook my soon to be brother in law going off! He's one of the 'feel the bern' guys. He's devastated that someone against the establishment of money and power, Hillary, would earn the vote of Bernie.

Me personally, I figured all along this dude was not for real and he'd support Hillary in the end. I saw this coming. However, it's trending on Facebook the outrage of the bern crowd.

My question is, is anyone surprised or upset? Or did everyone else know this guy was a wanna-be socialist fraud?

Any Bernie or Bust people upset by Sanders's willingness to vote for Clinton is either dumb or willfully ignorant. Bernie said on numerous occassions that Hillary was far preferable to Trump. "100 times better," he said on more than one debate.

Sanders: Clinton On Her Worst Day Is An 'Infinitely Better Candidate' Than Any GOPer

Sanders: Even on our worst day, we are 100 times better than GOP | TheHill

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Excuse me? Obama is Bush 2.0. Hillary is no different than Obama.

Yes because Bush certainly would have passed the ACA, expired tax cuts on the top bracket, pushed a socially liberal agenda, reduced defense spending and so on.....:roll:

There is a huge difference between the two parties.

 

[11Bravo]

Yes because Bush certainly would have passed the ACA, expired tax cuts on the top bracket, pushed a socially liberal agenda, reduced defense spending and so on.....:roll:

There is a huge difference between the two parties.

I see the "moderate" in your profile is Ironic.

 

[Howler63]

Bernie Sanders: I'll probably vote for Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Ok. I just saw on Facebook my soon to be brother in law going off! He's one of the 'feel the bern' guys. He's devastated that someone against the establishment of money and power, Hillary, would earn the vote of Bernie.

Me personally, I figured all along this dude was not for real and he'd support Hillary in the end. I saw this coming. However, it's trending on Facebook the outrage of the bern crowd.

My question is, is anyone surprised or upset? Or did everyone else know this guy was a wanna-be socialist fraud?

You mean Sanders is a full of **** as a Christmas turkey? Why yes, yes I knew that.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Never; grudging is the absolute best she's ever going to get and she should be thankful for even that much if it happens.

She's not a progressive, she's a third way neoliberal firmly in the pocket of her donors and no amount of sophistry or misdirection will ever change that.

That she's not as bad as Trump in no way changes or obviates this; the woman is essentially to the right of the Canadian Conservatives for ****s sake. The US political frame of reference is hilariously skewed.

Jezus H. Ceeryst, Surr...almost the entire population of the US is to right of Canadian conservatives...and to the right of damn near all the conservatives of the free world. We are a right-wing country, which is why we lag the rest of the world in so many progressive agenda items.

Hillary was lambasted from the right at one time for being the uber-liberal..."libtard" is the word I think that ilk used. Now, she is being lambasted for being too far to the other side by the left.

Let American conservatives set your clock for you if you want, but if you would take an unbiased look, she is not the monster they have painted her to be...and sold to people without the willingness to see through it.

If a progressive agenda is something that matters to you (I do not know that it does)...the fact that THREE Supreme Court Justices will almost certainly be appointed by the next president should be enough for you to vote for Hillary Clinton with a huge smile of satisfaction on your face. If a progressive agenda matters to you, you should vote for her...and then feel proud of yourself for having done so.

Or buy the myth American conservatives have painted. Hell...they painted the word "liberal" to be a disgusting one...and that's been bought by most of the country. We'll survive the people who have fallen for their crap.

 

[Frank Apisa]

You mean Sanders is a full of **** as a Christmas turkey? Why yes, yes I knew that.

Try "Christmas goose" next time. At least that part of what you have to say will make sense.

 

[iguanaman]

Haha we get it. Trump factors into everything you need to say. You guys give him so much cred

Actually we would all like to forget Trump exists outside of reality TV. The problem is that he is the GOP nominee so we hear about him daily.

 

[11Bravo]

Actually we would all like to forget Trump exists outside of reality TV. The problem is that he is the GOP nominee so we hear about him daily.

Hey I don't wanna hear about him or Hildabeast either but here we are.

 

[Risky Thicket]

He spent so much time destroying her reputation with Independents, I find it super interesting. Heck, he was almost on par with Trump on Hillary bashing.

The Damage Bernie?s Hillary Bashing May Do - WSJ

As stated in the OP, I saw this coming though. He was a fraud from day one.

Hillary bashing? :doh

What untruths has Bernie said about Hillary and how did that destroy her reputation (whatever it may once have been)?

Tell me about all the love between the Wall Street Journal and Bernie.

I am an Independent because I do not support either of the establishment's ruling parties. If people honestly and deeply supported the Democratic Party they would be Democrats, no?

I for one do not want more of the same. No way in hell do I want more/continued Tea Party and Religious Right (now redundant), Wall Street and neocon control of US and even state government. No more extreme right social engineering, predatory capitalism, and war mongering. The GOP is likely forever now beyond my consideration.

The Democratic Party is no choice either. In fact with Hillary at the helm of government we will experience much the same that we've seen from the GOP. Both parties are after all owned and directed by Big Money, domestic and foreign. The DNC, as we have seen, is duplicitous. it is as untrustworthy as Clinton herself. That should be no surprise as the Clintons have made certain that the DNC is under their control. Most Democrats in office appear to be most interested in doing nothing other than staying in office and like Republicans collecting sweetheart deals with corporations when the leave office.

Hillary is the Democratic Party and Hillary is Wall Street's closest friend. Hillary in the White House is Wall Street in White House. Enough of that crap. I want it to end. Bernie never changed my mind about Hillary or the Clintons. Suggesting that Sanders is a largely responsible for Americans disliking Hillary is absurd. Americans disliked Hillary long before the campaign began.

 

[11Bravo]

Hillary bashing? :doh

What untruths has Bernie said about Hillary and how did that destroy her reputation (whatever it may once have been)?

Tell me about all the love between the Wall Street Journal and Bernie.

I am an Independent because I do not support either of the establishment's ruling parties. If people honestly and deeply supported the Democratic Party they would be Democrats, no?

I for one do not want more of the same. No way in hell do I want more/continued Tea Party and Religious Right (now redundant), Wall Street and neocon control of US and even state government. No more extreme right social engineering, predatory capitalism, and war mongering. The GOP is likely forever now beyond my consideration.

The Democratic Party is no choice either. In fact with Hillary at the helm of government we will experience much the same that we've seen from the GOP. Both parties are after all owned and directed by Big Money, domestic and foreign. The DNC, as we have seen, is duplicitous. it is as untrustworthy as Clinton herself. That should be no surprise as the Clintons have made certain that the DNC is under their control. Most Democrats in office appear to be most interested in doing nothing other than staying in office and like Republicans collecting sweetheart deals with corporations when the leave office.

Hillary is the Democratic Party and Hillary is Wall Street's closest friend. Hillary in the White House is Wall Street in White House. Enough of that crap. I want it to end. Bernie never changed my mind about Hillary or the Clintons. Suggesting that Sanders is a largely responsible for Americans disliking Hillary is absurd. Americans disliked Hillary long before the campaign began.

Ok that's fair.

 

[Surrealistik]

Jezus H. Ceeryst, Surr...almost the entire population of the US is to right of Canadian conservatives...and to the right of damn near all the conservatives of the free world. We are a right-wing country, which is why we lag the rest of the world in so many progressive agenda items.

Actually it's not; if it were a right wing country, Bernie and his ideas wouldn't poll nearly as well with independents and indeed significantly better than Hillary and Trump among the general populace.

The problem is the campaign finance system which skews policy ever rightward, because the wealthy who preside over it have that self-serving bias, and naturally demand a system of taxes and legislation that favours them, even if it comes at the expense of everyone else.

Hillary was lambasted from the right at one time for being the uber-liberal..."libtard" is the word I think that ilk used. Now, she is being lambasted for being too far to the other side by the left.

And the right hilariously called Obama a literal communist and socialist, so what the hell does their evidently wildly incorrect opinion matter? Hillary could only be considered left vis a vis a lunatic fringe on the right; the same lunatic fringe that would dub Obama as an honest to god Marxist.

Let American conservatives set your clock for you if you want, but if you would take an unbiased look, she is not the monster they have painted her to be...and sold to people without the willingness to see through it.

Look, let's be clear about this: Clinton is corrupt, and she's objectively right wing; I don't need the Republicans to tell me she's an inconsistent fraud, because her voting record and statements, donors, controversies and positions do all that talking for them. If you legitimately believe she's progressive, then the accusation that the conservatives are setting my clock becomes utterly ironic, as they're in fact setting yours; because you think that her relative leftism to their lunatic fringe qualifies her as one. If I vote for her, it will be in _spite_ of her, not because of her; solely because the alternative is so much worse. This is not good vs evil, this is bad vs worse, end of story.

If a progressive agenda is something that matters to you (I do not know that it does)...the fact that THREE Supreme Court Justices will almost certainly be appointed by the next president should be enough for you to vote for Hillary Clinton with a huge smile of satisfaction on your face. If a progressive agenda matters to you, you should vote for her...and then feel proud of yourself for having done so.

Or buy the myth American conservatives have painted. Hell...they painted the word "liberal" to be a disgusting one...and that's been bought by most of the country. We'll survive the people who have fallen for their crap.

First off, no, three 'almost certain' appointments is almost certainly an exaggeration, though yes, there will probably be appointments.

Second, there is nothing satisfying about electing a demonstrable Wall Street stooge, whether or not she appoints less objectionable Justices than Trump would. Again there is no reason to be happy or enthusiastic about supporting a lesser evil; it is a miserable affair done with utmost reluctance in the sorry acknowledgement that it's the least bad of two terrible options. That's not a cause for mirth.

Third, people don't really buy the idea of 'liberal' as a pejorative. Hell, 'socialist' is on its way out too. More dangerous in my view than failed right-wing attempts to poison the word is the far more successful campaign to associate it with people like Clinton who are not at all liberal.

 

[SocialD]

While Sanders would indeed like to see major changes, he has no desire to do so at the cost of destroying the country.

So why then would he vote for Hillary? ;P

 

[Captain America]

He spent so much time destroying her reputation with Independents, I find it super interesting. Heck, he was almost on par with Trump on Hillary bashing.

The Damage Bernie?s Hillary Bashing May Do - WSJ

As stated in the OP, I saw this coming though. He was a fraud from day one.

Does it surprise you as well, that many of the republicans that Trump bashed over the head has stated that they would be voting for him too?

I think a LOT of people will be holding their nose and voting for Hillary. Not because they support her but more because a Trump victory would be about the worst thing that could happen to America, politically.