Bernie Sanders Calls Drug Addiction a ‘Disease’ Not a Crime

[David_N]

I've never said for non-violent offenders or possession/use that jail time is a good thing. I've argued against that.

This doesn't change the reality that abusing illegal drugs is dangerous for the individuals involved and poses a health concern.

I agree.

 

[Absentglare]

And again the fact that you are trying to compare peer pressure and torture shows how sad your argument is.

I never once said it was not a complex issue. All I said was it is a choice after another poster said it wasn't. Unless someone physically forces you to smoke then it is without a doubt a choice.

Not saying it's the case with you but most of the folks I see who make the same argument as you are those who look to blame anything other then themselves for the bad choices they have made in their life.

It seemed like your whole argument was an act of focusing only on the choice of the user so as to place 100% of the blame on the user.

 

[Absentglare]

That's not true. I declined vicodin and similar drugs when I've had injuries because I didnt want to chance becoming dependent on them. My doc told me that since my body needed that pain relief, and my system would properly use the drugs, I wouldnt get addicted. And that I would heal faster with my body not fighting the stress of pain. Your body utilizes those drugs properly when you are in pain. At least when it's not long-term.


So no, you dont "have" to become addicted if you use them. I have a medicine cabinet full of left over vicodin and percoset and other stuff, saved for 'a rainy day' if I get hurt again and hope never happens.

That wasn't what i meant.

Doctors have lied to patients and told them that the pain they're in somehow mitigates the addictive aspect of the medication. That's not true.

Purdue Pharma lied to doctors so as to inflate oxycontin prescriptions. That's why they were sued.

Lawsuit seeks to make drugmaker pay for OxyContin abuse

"A pernicious distinction of the first decade of the 21st century was the rise in painkiller abuse, which ultimately led to a catastrophic increase in addicts, fatal overdoses, and blighted communities. But the story of the painkiller epidemic can really be reduced to the story of one powerful, highly addictive drug and its small but ruthlessly enterprising manufacturer."

How the American opiate epidemic was started by one pharmaceutical company

Addiction is a latent issue that you're not aware of your propensity for until it's activated. You may or may not be aware of the risks. Your doctor may or may not care. They'd just as soon satisfy a complaining patient and make a drug sale. They don't care that it has serious side effects among 20% of the population.

People like above say it's not a problem because all they have to do is choose not to use. That's not true. You have no choice once you're addicted, and people trust their doctors to help them.

 

[Lursa]

It's bad for the health of the individual, it's also very addictive and puts strain on the health system and economy with lost productivity. We have a drug addiction epidemic. Drugs like heroine, meth, crack, etc. do pose a major public health problem.

It's the problem of the individual, what happens to them. As for economics, those are not 'public health issues.' They are....economic and no different from the ills of obesity, smoking, alcohol, etc. Probably less actually.

There is no danger to public health from drugs.

 

[Lursa]

That wasn't what i meant.

Doctors have lied to patients and told them that the pain they're in somehow mitigates the addictive aspect of the medication. That's not true.

Then why havent I gotten addicted? At all? Not remotely.

Nor my family, nor several friends that I know have taken those drugs for pain.

Per your own quote, I wasnt complaining, I was refusing. He recommended the drugs so that my body would heal faster, not having to deal with the added stress of pain.

 

[Lursa]

I've never said for non-violent offenders or possession/use that jail time is a good thing. I've argued against that.

This doesn't change the reality that abusing illegal drugs is dangerous for the individuals involved and poses a health concern.

I dont care if it's dangerous for them and it's not a health concern for anyone else.

 

[Kushinator]

He said 'criminal behavior.' This doesnt necessariliy mean that it turns someone aggressive and drives them to physical abuses. It also means that the cost of the addiction requires many to turn to crime to support that habit. And that can also turn violent, but not necessarily. And the property crime harms all of us.

Because of legal and cheap booze, that 'turn to crime' to support it is less.

People turn to crime all the time for reasons other than drug abuse, e.g. poverty, mental illness, etc.... Current U.S. drug policy, as you have pointed out, only contributes to criminality.

 

[X Factor]

It seemed like your whole argument was an act of focusing only on the choice of the user so as to place 100% of the blame on the user.

That's not where the blame belongs?

 

[X Factor]

It is FAR more complicated than either addicts bearing no responsibility, or addicts having complete control.

Are addicts responsible for their behavior?

 

[Lursa]

People turn to crime all the time for reasons other than drug abuse, e.g. poverty, mental illness, etc.... Current U.S. drug policy, as you have pointed out, only contributes to criminality.

Yes, and probably alot of euphoria and throwing up and delusions.

But we were discussing the tendency to 'aggression,' were we not?

 

[Absentglare]

Then why havent I gotten addicted? At all? Not remotely.

Nor my family, nor several friends that I know have taken those drugs for pain.

Per your own quote, I wasnt complaining, I was refusing. He recommended the drugs so that my body would heal faster, not having to deal with the added stress of pain.

I never said everybody gets addicted.

The number i cited is that about 20% of users will have serious side effects like addiction.

 

[Absentglare]

That's not where the blame belongs?

It depends, what do you blame on them ?

Using drugs alone isn't a whole lot to go on. Without doing anything else wrong, why is that a problem ? Plenty of people average a beer a day without drunk driving, beating their spouses, emotionally abusing their children, or robbing a bank. Fact is, i don't think you have any right to judge anyone else just for using because that's not the real problem.

If you want to blame crimes like theft, then blame a thief. If you want to blame crimes like robbery, then blame a robber.

Addicts perceive this injustice, this disparate treatment. It plays into the prosecution complex, makes life seem more bleak and hopeless.

 

[Kushinator]

Yes, and probably alot of euphoria and throwing up and delusions. But we were discussing the tendency to 'aggression,' were we not?

Had we not established that expensive drugs, e.g. heroin and cocaine, have the most brutal brutal market participants?

Police in Minnesota bust heroin ring linked to violent Chicago street gang | Grand Forks Herald

 

[X Factor]

It depends, what do you blame on them ?

Using drugs alone isn't a whole lot to go on. Without doing anything else wrong, why is that a problem ? Plenty of people average a beer a day without drunk driving, beating their spouses, emotionally abusing their children, or robbing a bank. Fact is, i don't think you have any right to judge anyone else just for using because that's not the real problem.

If you want to blame crimes like theft, then blame a thief. If you want to blame crimes like robbery, then blame a robber.

Addicts perceive this injustice, this disparate treatment. It plays into the prosecution complex, makes life seem more bleak and hopeless.

Can I condemn the thief and robber even if they happen to be an addict, or are you opposed to enforcing criminal laws against addicts?

 

[AGENT J]

That's what they said about homosexuality fifty years ago. If that's indicative, in a few decades we'll be told there's nothing wrong with drug addiction.

:lamo
This might be one of the most dishonest, illogical and retarded "analogies" I have ever read. Nobody honest, educated and objective would ever take such an asinine and unsupportable claim seriously LMAO

sexual orientation =/= drug addiction

 

[Kushinator]

Can I condemn the thief and robber even if they happen to be an addict, or are you opposed to enforcing criminal laws against addicts?

The street price for heroin is 3.76x that of gold. Prohibition actually induces criminality.

 

[Absentglare]

Can I condemn the thief and robber even if they happen to be an addict, or are you opposed to enforcing criminal laws against addicts?

... Of course...

 

[AGENT J]

The issue is a tricky one because people get confused really quick and they lump things all together.

Addiction itself my very well be a disease but theres lots of activities associated with it that are crimes so people bundle them together like they are one thing and thats incorrect. Also when its identified as a disease that doesn't mean people are saying the crimes associated with it are justified, most are not.

For example being a sex addict may be a disease but that doesnt justify rape.

I think its because of the emotional aspects of the issue people mix them together.

 

[Paleocon]

Well you are free to demonstrate any harm that homosexuality does...to individuals or society.

I cannot provide the opposite, since there are no harms and thus, I cant provide them.

So...please support your claim that it is harmful. That would prove me wrong.

Don't shift the goalpost. You made the affirmative claim that homosexuality is harmless while drug addiction is harmful. You need to substantiate at least one of those before insisting that I prove anything.

1. :lamo
2. This might be one of the most dis
3. honest, illogical and retarded "analogies" I have ever read. Nobody honest
4. , educated and objective would ever take such an asinine and unsupp
5. ortable claim seriously LMAO s
6. exual orientation =/= drug addict
7. ion

1. LOL facts defeat you
2. You have no facts
3. LMAO
4. No honest or educated person agrees with you
5. This is a recursive point, see #7
6. You are wrong
7. This is a recursive point, see #5

 

[AGENT J]

Don't shift the goalpost. You made the affirmative claim that homosexuality is harmless while drug addiction is harmful. You need to substantiate at least one of those before insisting that I prove anything.



1. LOL facts defeat you
2. You have no facts
3. LMAO
4. No honest or educated person agrees with you
5. This is a recursive point, see #7
6. You are wrong
7. This is a recursive point, see #5

Translation: You got nothing to support your failed post LMAO. Please let us know when you can support it with any facts, thanks!

Fact remains:
sexual orientation =/= drug addiction

 

[Paleocon]

1. Translation: You got nothing to support
2. your failed post LMAO. Please let us know when you can sup
3. port it with any facts, thanks!
4. Fact remains:
5. sexual orientation =/= drug ad
6. diction

1. This is a recursive point, see #1
2. Lol facts defeat you
3. LMAO
4. You have no facts
5. No honest or educated person agrees with you
6. LOL

 

[Lursa]

Had we not established that expensive drugs, e.g. heroin and cocaine, have the most brutal brutal market participants?

Police in Minnesota bust heroin ring linked to violent Chicago street gang | Grand Forks Herald

Well one of the things under discussion is that many turn to heroin because they can no longer get the prescription drugs that they became addicted to so they turn to the *cheaper* heroin. So...not sure how expensive it is. Cheaper than black market prescription drugs apparently.

 

[Lursa]

Don't shift the goalpost. You made the affirmative claim that homosexuality is harmless while drug addiction is harmful. You need to substantiate at least one of those before insisting that I prove anything.

Here you go: the harm drug addiction can cause:

More deaths, illnesses and disabilities stem from substance abuse than from any other preventable health condition. Today, one in four deaths is attributable to illicit drug use. People who live with substance dependence have a higher risk of all bad outcomes including unintentional injuries, accidents, risk of domestic violence, medical problems, and death.

Health Problems
The impact of drug abuse and dependence can be far-reaching, affecting almost every organ in the human body. Drug use can:

Weaken the immune system, increasing susceptibility to infections.
Cause cardiovascular conditions ranging from abnormal heart rate to heart attacks. Injected drugs can also lead to collapsed veins and infections of the blood vessels and heart valves.
Cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain.
Cause the liver to have to work harder, possibly causing significant damage or liver failure.
Cause seizures, stroke and widespread brain damage that can impact all aspects of daily life by causing problems with memory, attention and decision-making, including sustained mental confusion and permanent brain damage.
Produce global body changes such as breast development in men, dramatic fluctuations in appetite and increases in body temperature, which may impact a variety of health conditions.

Effects of Drug Abuse and Addiction | Gateway Treatment Centers

There, I substantiated one of my claims, the only one I can substantiate, since there is no harm to individuals or society by homosexuality.

Please, now substantiate your claim, that homosexuality is comparable to drug addiction in terms of harm (or in any way at all).

 

[Paleocon]

Here you go: the harm drug addiction can cause:


Effects of Drug Abuse and Addiction | Gateway Treatment Centers

There, I substantiated one of my claims, the only one I can substantiate, since there is no harm to individuals or society by homosexuality.

Please, now substantiate your claim, that homosexuality is comparable to drug addiction in terms of harm (or in any way at all).

To keep things simple (since I know you aren't capable of understanding complicated metaphysical arguments), I'll point out that homosexuality is correlated with high rates of suicide. Also, their sexual practices carry a higher risk of transmitting disease.

I'm happy to provide citations for these, if you request.

 

[Lursa]

I never said everybody gets addicted.

The number i cited is that about 20% of users will have serious side effects like addiction.

This is what I originally quoted:

Getting addicted is a matter of CHOICE

That's not true at all. Patients tend to take medicine as prescribed, especially to alleviate a symptom like severe pain. There's no choice in becoming addicted. And addicts can have their addictive behavior triggered by strong emotions whether good or bad.