Beginning Vegan Cheat Sheet

[Risky Thicket]

It is basically what you said.You visited a slaughterhouse and that pushed you to being a vegan.Sounds like you got squeamish to me.

Wrong connotation.

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

You are still trying to push veganism and humane farmers do not improve factory farming conditions.You are still trying to act as though Veganism and those 'humane farmers' are the only options as though nothing can be done to improve conditions at factory farms.

Obviously I'm not currently going to suggest people buy from factory farms since the conditions are still disgusting. Again, you're just looking for anything you can retort with.

And factory farming by definition is cruel. I don't believe there's ever going to be 'humane' factory farming. If it were humane it would no longer be called factory farming. It would cost too much money and would take up too much space.

The Humane Society of the United States is the main organization that's trying to implement new legislation that will make factory farming MORE humane, but the entire industry would just have to be entirely rebuilt for it to ever be humane. I'll give you an example of what we're dealing with. The HSUS got Prop 2 passed in California which will allow animals to at least be able to turn around and spread their wings. It goes into effect in 2015, but Norco Ranch (the largest egg factory farm in California) decided to sue against it saying that 7 years wasn't enough time to make the switch, and it costs them too much money.

Right now what needs to happen is a boycott of the industry. Progress in this industry is extremely slow, and currently the industry is much too powerful to get much done.

The long term solution IS veganism.

 

[jamesrage]

Wrong connotation.

How is that a wrong connotation?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/food/133798-beginning-vegan-cheat-sheet-3.html#post1060815068

The first time I became a vegan was after a visit to a slaughter house. That did it for me.

We do eat whole food and we make whatever we eat from scratch. No dairy, no processed anything. Well, OK, beer. There's a limit to everything.

 

[Risky Thicket]

How is that a wrong connotation?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/food/133798-beginning-vegan-cheat-sheet-3.html#post1060815068

Why do you care?

 

[jamesrage]

Obviously I'm not currently going to suggest people buy from factory farms since the conditions are still disgusting. Again, you're just looking for anything you can retort with.

And factory farming by definition is cruel. I don't believe there's ever going to be 'humane' factory farming. If it were humane it would no longer be called factory farming. It would cost too much money and would take up too much space.

The Humane Society of the United States is the main organization that's trying to implement new legislation that will make factory farming MORE humane, but the entire industry would just have to be entirely rebuilt for it to ever be humane. I'll give you an example of what we're dealing with. The HSUS got Prop 2 passed in California which will allow animals to at least be able to turn around and spread their wings. It goes into effect in 2015, but Norco Ranch (the largest egg factory farm in California) decided to sue against it saying that 7 years wasn't enough time to make the switch, and it costs them too much money.

Right now what needs to happen is a boycott of the industry. Progress in this industry is extremely slow, and currently the industry is much too powerful to get much done.

The long term solution IS veganism.

If factory farm conditions being 'cruel' was truly an issue to you and not an excuse to preach veganism then you would just push for factory farming conditions to improve for animals.Not this bs that factory farming by definition is cruel to animals or improving conditions is going to be slow so that that the long term solution is veganism. Its the same thing with fur industry with you people,you could care less if these animals were free range,cage free, or trapped in a cage in the wild and put down the most humane way possible before being skinned. If you genuinely want the conditions of these factory farm animals to improve then you must come up with actual solutions to improve the conditions of factory farmed animals while at the same time not trying sound like a peta-tard member. One the most sure ways to turn people away from a cause to come off as having an ulterior motive or be associated with a despised group.

 

[jamesrage]

Why do you care?

Because being squeamish seems like the wrong reason to completely alter your diet.

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

If factory farm conditions being 'cruel' was truly an issue to you and not an excuse to preach veganism then you would just push for factory farming conditions to improve for animals.Not this bs that factory farming by definition is cruel to animals or improving conditions is going to be slow so that that the long term solution is veganism. Its the same thing with fur industry with you people,you could care less if these animals were free range,cage free, or trapped in a cage in the wild and put down the most humane way possible before being skinned. If you genuinely want the conditions of these factory farm animals to improve then you must come up with actual solutions to improve the conditions of factory farmed animals while at the same time not trying sound like a peta-tard member. One the most sure ways to turn people away from a cause to come off as having an ulterior motive or be associated with a despised group.

There are already organizations fighting for new legislation that prevents cruel practices in factory farms. I already went over that. The general public has very little power in this. The most powerful thing the general public can do is boycott the industry. You're choosing to confuse the issue. I really don't believe you're serious.

And please stop bringing up PETA. I know PETA is an easy target for people who want to make fun of animal welfare advocates, but really, you're just making an ass of yourself.

I have arthritis. I really hate typing. I do a lot of work on the computer to spread awareness of factory farming and to give people the resources they need to boycott the industry - since consumers really hold all the power. It's really the last thing I want to be doing, but I do it because I care, a lot. If I didn't care, believe me I would not be taking the time to respond to you right now.

 

[jamesrage]

There are already organizations fighting for new legislation that prevents cruel practices in factory farms. I already went over that..

If these organizations are associate with the likes of PETA then their efforts will fall on deaf ears.

The general public has very little power in this.

Wrong. The public can call and or write their elected officials.If you live in a state with ballot initiative you can start a petition to put the issue on the ballot.

Initiatives and referendums in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most powerful thing the general public can do is boycott the industry. You're choosing to confuse the issue. I really don't believe you're serious.

The most powerful thing people can do is pressure their elected officials to change the law, or they are lucky enough to live in a state with vote initiatives can circulate a petition in order to put it on the ballot and make it law.

And please stop bringing up PETA. I know PETA is an easy target for people who want to make fun of animal welfare advocates, but really, you're just making an ass of yourself.

You sound like you are pushing PETA's message that we shouldn't eat meat and are using any excuse under the sun as to why we shouldn't eat meat.

I have arthritis. I really hate typing. I do a lot of work on the computer to spread awareness of factory farming and to give people the resources they need to boycott the industry - since consumers really hold all the power. It's really the last thing I want to be doing, but I do it because I care, a lot. If I didn't care, believe me I would not be taking the time to respond to you right now

If you really care about this issue then quit trying to push veganism and talk only about improving conditions at factory farms.

 

[notquiteright]

Knew a handful of vegan, no meat veggies, fish only veggies, egg only....well you get the idea. A wide assortment and levels of commitment to our warm bloodied friends. They were part of an cat rescue group and I found it interesting cats are carnivores but their rescuers were not! :lol:

At a cookout they discussed the meat/dairy/protein substitutes out there. One thing they kept repeating was, "you can't compare it to the real thing."

I figure if they say it isn't the same that is good enough for me.

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

If these organizations are associate with the likes of PETA then their efforts will fall on deaf ears.


Wrong. The public can call and or write their elected officials.If you live in a state with ballot initiative you can start a petition to put the issue on the ballot.

Initiatives and referendums in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The most powerful thing people can do is pressure their elected officials to change the law, or they are lucky enough to live in a state with vote initiatives can circulate a petition in order to put it on the ballot and make it law.



You sound like you are pushing PETA's message that we shouldn't eat meat and are using any excuse under the sun as to why we shouldn't eat meat.



If you really care about this issue then quit trying to push veganism and talk only about improving conditions at factory farms.

You didn't listen to (or comprehend) anything I said.... please read it all again. I don't feel like repeating myself.

Until then, I'm just not going to respond to you anymore because it's obviously a waste of my time.

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

Knew a handful of vegan, no meat veggies, fish only veggies, egg only....well you get the idea. A wide assortment and levels of commitment to our warm bloodied friends. They were part of an cat rescue group and I found it interesting cats are carnivores but their rescuers were not! :lol:

At a cookout they discussed the meat/dairy/protein substitutes out there. One thing they kept repeating was, "you can't compare it to the real thing."

I figure if they say it isn't the same that is good enough for me.

There are some that are gross, which is why I recommended certain ones.

Especially the chicken is very similar (except better - no veins, connective tissue, that film that covers a chicken breast, blood, gristle, or any of the nasty stuff in meat). I saw a lady try the Mandarin Orange Chicken-less Morsels from Trader Joe's and her eyes got all wide as she said, "MMM!" Like she couldn't believe it wasn't chicken.

I just have a hard time believing this was within this decade - since there are so many dairy substitutes and meat substitutes that taste amazing and the ones I recommended really taste better than the real thing to me. :/

Unless when they said, "You can't compare it to the real thing", they actually meant, "It's just so much better!"

 

[notquiteright]

Oh they were very clear, it isn't anything like the real thing, and not in a good way. No offense but they and you trend toward heavy sauces to hide the odd taste.

Now when it comes to trying to paint meat as gross with connective tissues, gristle and films...

When I was a young June Bug I had jungle survival training which included beating a poor defenseless bunny to death, ripping it's hide open and eating a bit of the raw meat infront of an Instructor. Later we had the time honored jungle BBQ of grub skewered on an ammo bandolier safety pin roasted with your zippo to a still wiggling perfection before popping it in whole... helpful hint, if talk of connective tissue and films causes a bit of nausea, don't bite down on the grub, swallow the sucker whole and then bite down hard incase it tried to bounce right back up.

I have zero heart burn with vegans, have at it. Just noting they don't say slap those tofu burgers on the grill and we can do a blind taste test against ground chuck and tofu will win! (that was the conversation kicking off the faux meat vs real meat comparisons and brands, my veganish advisers were very clear, never compare the taste of real to faux as faux suffers in the comparison) Now back east they have white or red pies, spinach pies... I politely decline, but don't point and laugh.

But like I said, seems to me these 'great tasting' substitutes get buried in very flavor filled covering sauces as a routine, and once upon a time 'cheese food product' was frowned upon not a staple of the good life. I eat cheese food product often enough, but then again I think ramen and hot links makes for great eating :shock:

Again no offense, just noting what the various variety of not meat folks have said to my face, while we were eating together the few dozen times I hung with them eating and drinking tasty adult beverages... eace

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

Oh they were very clear, it isn't anything like the real thing, and not in a good way. No offense but they and you trend toward heavy sauces to hide the odd taste.

Now when it comes to trying to paint meat as gross with connective tissues, gristle and films...

When I was a young June Bug I had jungle survival training which included beating a poor defenseless bunny to death, ripping it's hide open and eating a bit of the raw meat infront of an Instructor. Later we had the time honored jungle BBQ of grub skewered on an ammo bandolier safety pin roasted with your zippo to a still wiggling perfection before popping it in whole... helpful hint, if talk of connective tissue and films causes a bit of nausea, don't bite down on the grub, swallow the sucker whole and then bite down hard incase it tried to bounce right back up.

I have zero heart burn with vegans, have at it. Just noting they don't say slap those tofu burgers on the grill and we can do a blind taste test against ground chuck and tofu will win! (that was the conversation kicking off the faux meat vs real meat comparisons and brands, my veganish advisers were very clear, never compare the taste of real to faux as faux suffers in the comparison) Now back east they have white or red pies, spinach pies... I politely decline, but don't point and laugh.

But like I said, seems to me these 'great tasting' substitutes get buried in very flavor filled covering sauces as a routine, and once upon a time 'cheese food product' was frowned upon not a staple of the good life. I eat cheese food product often enough, but then again I think ramen and hot links makes for great eating :shock:

Again no offense, just noting what the various variety of not meat folks have said to my face, while we were eating together the few dozen times I hung with them eating and drinking tasty adult beverages... eace

Again, this sounds like it was probably ages ago....

I actually like to eat a lot of the faux meats 100% plain. And ahem, rarely do I see anyone eating meat without any seasoning or sauces.

There is nothing funky tasting about the ones I suggested, and it annoys me so much that you've been misinformed. I'm a picky eater.....

When I say something is good, it's good.

And the best sandwich I ever had. EVER. Was at The Vegan Joint in Woodland Hills, CA. It was a garlicky chick'n sandwich. The most perfect texture and flavor no REAL chicken could ever hope to compare to. If you have to swallow something whole in hopes of not noticing the texture or taste, you're not eating good food. This isn't about survival skills, it's about tasty food.

 

[Ikari]

When you say something's good, it's good to you.

And I've heard the song and dance before, I've measured the system and as a very accomplished omnivore, I will tell you that most pretend food does not taste that great, and I've nary come across one that was an acceptable substitute for the real thing. You may think it's the best thing ever, but not everyone agrees. It's not only that you've acclimated yourself to only a certain small range of food stuffs such that you can no longer accurately judge the difference, but you have vested interest in not only believing yourself that it is better, but convincing others that it is better as well. You may, in fact, be a very biased source.

Whereas I have no vested interest. I eat a lot of things and if something tastes good, I'll eat it and say it tastes good. Except that I won't eat shellfish like crab and lobster and the like. Those things are like insects, and I refuse to eat insects.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Because being squeamish seems like the wrong reason to completely alter your diet.

Indeed. It's not the reason I stopped eating meat.

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

When you say something's good, it's good to you.

And I've heard the song and dance before, I've measured the system and as a very accomplished omnivore, I will tell you that most pretend food does not taste that great, and I've nary come across one that was an acceptable substitute for the real thing. You may think it's the best thing ever, but not everyone agrees. It's not only that you've acclimated yourself to only a certain small range of food stuffs such that you can no longer accurately judge the difference, but you have vested interest in not only believing yourself that it is better, but convincing others that it is better as well. You may, in fact, be a very biased source.

Whereas I have no vested interest. I eat a lot of things and if something tastes good, I'll eat it and say it tastes good. Except that I won't eat shellfish like crab and lobster and the like. Those things are like insects, and I refuse to eat insects.

The first thing I started doing when I went vegan was go shopping to test out all the faux animal products. I found a lot I didn't like, some that were okay, and others like the ones I listed, that are delicious.

And skeptical omnivores have tried some of this stuff and commented on how good it is...

My brother for instance is even on the Atkins diet (he's a moron), and any chance he gets to be an asshole about something, he takes it. But he even admitted that it was good.

Don't knock it before you try it.

 

[notquiteright]

Last time I dined with this crowd was early summer, this year.

I do note the woman raved over the chicken sample in Trader Joe's, been there too, as part of Mandarin Orange sauced tidbit.

Now I do enjoy tofu in hot and sour soup, again in a hide the flavor food, so it isn't a hate of faux meat, just passing on what a nice sampling of no meat folks said as we cooked out.

I can see you are a spread the good word sort of person, convinced and dedicated so I'll leave you to it. I'm sure there are many ways to dress faux meat up, hell the chopped and pressed luncheon loaf is a classic of how off the texture of real meat, real meat can be.

 

[Ikari]

Don't knock it before you try it.

I've tried a lot of different vegan food, I'm just not buying your propaganda is all

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

I've tried a lot of different vegan food, I'm just not buying your propaganda is all

The question is though, have you tried the vegan food I mentioned?

There's a reason I suggested certain faux meats and not just any faux meat...

It's not propaganda. It's just ****ing good food.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Last time I dined with this crowd was early summer, this year.

I do note the woman raved over the chicken sample in Trader Joe's, been there too, as part of Mandarin Orange sauced tidbit.

Now I do enjoy tofu in hot and sour soup, again in a hide the flavor food, so it isn't a hate of faux meat, just passing on what a nice sampling of no meat folks said as we cooked out.

I can see you are a spread the good word sort of person, convinced and dedicated so I'll leave you to it. I'm sure there are many ways to dress faux meat up, hell the chopped and pressed luncheon loaf is a classic of how off the texture of real meat, real meat can be.

When faux meat is done right it is excellent. In my experience done right is not a common occurrence. It can be done.

Last year we were having a couple pints and something to eat at the Yard House. I ordered beef. My wife the vegan ordered faux beef sliders. She'd never had them before. They were better than the beef I was eating. Blew me away. The next time we went back, I ordered the faux beef sliders. They tasted like the inside of a dog's butt. What did they do differently? Beats me.

 

[notquiteright]

What did you do differently? (looking at the couple of pints )

Seriously, there is no telling. Over the years as the vegans had me over to grill I found the best I could say about faux meat is if you slather it with enough BBQ sauce it tastes a lot like a C-rat. :lol:

I like my steak sans any sauce, sauteed mushrooms on the side. I love venison, take a couple of deer each year. Again the best is grilled backstrap, though my wife's venison schnitzel is superb. Don't need to hide the taste with a lot of sauces, seasoning, or stuff. Now feral hogs does take a bit of extra work, can be quite dry and a little tough. Have to add some domestic fat for good burgers, careful on cooking some cuts or it is tough, and a bit of marinade to keep the flavor 'right'.

But then again feral hog isn't fed like farm raised pigs.

Again, I'm not knocking what other people eat, I have eaten faux meat, tofu has it's place in anyone's diet, but going to a no meat agricultural production system will be disastrous. To claim 'it tastes just like chicken' wasn't my experience, neither the faux stuff or that grub!

Not saying you claimed any of that, just saw the thread and added my experience, no doubt others think faux meat, wife calls it smeat, well ok, she calls my spam and other canned meats smeat as well, but anyways, I can see how some like faux meat, just wanted to say I have yet to meet face to face any vegan who can say with a straight face it tastes as good as the real meat counterpart.

Anywho, pint up next time you have those sliders, oh isn't it odd how the term slider is now so cute and classy, most Philly Folk I met use it as a bad thang... and see how they taste, ther maybe such a thing as beer goggles for the tongue. I understand there is a joke about that and 2am Taco Bell.....

 

[RadicalModerate]

 

[RadicalModerate]

Eventually we're going to have to become mostly vegan with the rising population and environmental destruction, resource depletion, etc.

And for the final shattering of your fragile worldview...

Boycott Veganism

Why Veganism Must Be Abolished: an Interview with Vegan Represent Founder Dave D

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

What did you do differently? (looking at the couple of pints )

Seriously, there is no telling. Over the years as the vegans had me over to grill I found the best I could say about faux meat is if you slather it with enough BBQ sauce it tastes a lot like a C-rat. :lol:

I like my steak sans any sauce, sauteed mushrooms on the side. I love venison, take a couple of deer each year. Again the best is grilled backstrap, though my wife's venison schnitzel is superb. Don't need to hide the taste with a lot of sauces, seasoning, or stuff. Now feral hogs does take a bit of extra work, can be quite dry and a little tough. Have to add some domestic fat for good burgers, careful on cooking some cuts or it is tough, and a bit of marinade to keep the flavor 'right'.

But then again feral hog isn't fed like farm raised pigs.

Again, I'm not knocking what other people eat, I have eaten faux meat, tofu has it's place in anyone's diet, but going to a no meat agricultural production system will be disastrous. To claim 'it tastes just like chicken' wasn't my experience, neither the faux stuff or that grub!

Not saying you claimed any of that, just saw the thread and added my experience, no doubt others think faux meat, wife calls it smeat, well ok, she calls my spam and other canned meats smeat as well, but anyways, I can see how some like faux meat, just wanted to say I have yet to meet face to face any vegan who can say with a straight face it tastes as good as the real meat counterpart.

Anywho, pint up next time you have those sliders, oh isn't it odd how the term slider is now so cute and classy, most Philly Folk I met use it as a bad thang... and see how they taste, ther maybe such a thing as beer goggles for the tongue. I understand there is a joke about that and 2am Taco Bell.....

I really would be interested to see your reaction to trying the faux meats I mentioned.

It's very possible to try quite a few faux meats and come off with the assumption that all faux meats are gross. But these ones are really good..

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

Looks retarded so I'm sorry but I'm not watching it. I have other things to waste my time on.