Backdoor taxes to hit middle class

[j-mac]

NEW YORK (Reuters.com) --The Obama administration's plan to cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade relies heavily on so-called backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families.

In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.

While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.

The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.

If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

Backdoor taxes to hit middle class - Yahoo! News

Another day, another promise broken. Get ready people here come the tidal wave.


j-mac

 

[liblady]

Another day, another promise broken. Get ready people here come the tidal wave.


j-mac

perhaps you should find out what his budget really calls for....targeted expriation, not over all expiration of the tax cuts. you're very dishonest.

Obama's proposed tax changes - Feb. 2, 2010

High-income households
Let tax cuts expire: The 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts are scheduled to expire by 2011. Obama is sticking to his call to let those tax cuts expire for high-income households ($200,000 for individuals; $250,000 for families). The White House estimates close to $700 billion would be raised over 10 years.

This provision would raise the top two individual income tax rates to where they were in 2001, before passage of the Bush tax cuts. The 33% bracket would become 36%. And the 35% bracket would rise to 39.6%.

 

[Councilman]

Let's not get too excited about another lie from the Buffoon in Chief we have grown a custom to his deceptions, since they come every time he speaks. After all it is his goal to destroy the economy as is laid out in the Cloward and Piven Strategy, and what better way to continue the downward trend in the economy than more taxes.

After all to Obama a promise is not any more important to keep than his oath of office, which to him is totally meaningless.

Also make note that his new budget is counting of funding from Cap and Trade that has not passed.

 

[j-mac]

perhaps you should find out what his budget really calls for....targeted expriation, not over all expiration of the tax cuts. you're very dishonest.

Obama's proposed tax changes - Feb. 2, 2010

High-income households
Let tax cuts expire: The 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts are scheduled to expire by 2011. Obama is sticking to his call to let those tax cuts expire for high-income households ($200,000 for individuals; $250,000 for families). The White House estimates close to $700 billion would be raised over 10 years.

Hmmmm....name calling right out of the chute....I must be right on the money.


j-mac

 

[liblady]

Hmmmm....name calling right out of the chute....I must be right on the money.


j-mac

you are certainly not. your post is misleading at best, a lie at worst. do you deny my counter?

 

[liblady]

Let's not get too excited about another lie from the Buffoon in Chief we have grown a custom to his deceptions, since they come every time he speaks. After all it is his goal to destroy the economy as is laid out in the Cloward and Piven Strategy, and what better way to continue the downward trend in the economy than more taxes.

After all to Obama a promise is not any more important to keep than his oath of office, which to him is totally meaningless.

Also make note that his new budget is counting of funding from Cap and Trade that has not passed.

go with that. of course, what j-mac posted is untrue.

 

[liblady]

here's another link.....

Obama budget lets Bush tax cuts expire - MarketWatch

 

[Zyphlin]

My question would be are they ABLE to do a targetted expiration?

IE do they have the ability to extend a portion of an act but let the other portion fall to the wayside? Or is all this political smoke and mirrors to imply that they are just going to get rid of the upper teir taxes without mentioning it will make the lower ones go as well?

Additionally, are we going to see dirty political dealing in regards to how he's going to "extend" the lower ones. For example they let the whole thing expire and then push for tax cuts equallying the lower ones, but with a bunch of tacked on programs and requirements that will cause the tax cuts not to get the votes needed, and thus being able to say "well we tried".

I don't think we have enough information on this to make an informed decision or say someones lying. And no offense to you Liblady but "Obama's people said so" isn't exactly "proof" to me, especially in the politispeak they used.

 

[liblady]

My question would be are they ABLE to do a targetted expiration?

IE do they have the ability to extend a portion of an act but let the other portion fall to the wayside? Or is all this political smoke and mirrors to imply that they are just going to get rid of the upper teir taxes without mentioning it will make the lower ones go as well?

Additionally, are we going to see dirty political dealing in regards to how he's going to "extend" the lower ones. For example they let the whole thing expire and then push for tax cuts equallying the lower ones, but with a bunch of tacked on programs and requirements that will cause the tax cuts not to get the votes needed, and thus being able to say "well we tried".

I don't think we have enough information on this to make an informed decision or say someones lying. And no offense to you Liblady but "Obama's people said so" isn't exactly "proof" to me, especially in the politispeak they used.

i don't know, but that's his intention. and to post otherwise is lying. there are very many sites reporting just what i have linked.

 

[Zyphlin]

i don't know, but that's his intention. and to post otherwise is lying. there are very many sites reporting just what i have linked.

Actually, that's his STATED intention.

Whether or not its his honest intention is one we can't answer for certain.

And because its his "intention" doesn't mean its going to happen. Look at the 50 people we're still going to be detaining indefinitely at that prison that's still open. Look at those people in Iraq coming home on the same time table in general George Bush had on. Look at the lobbyists he has in his administration. Look at the health care bill that's passed, or should I say not passed.

Sorry, Obama's either failed to delivered or just plane out ignored things he's stated he "intends" to do far to much for me to bank on them to just happen because he intends it.

If congress doesn't extend the lower portion of the tax cuts because they try to add stuff to it that's not needed or some other reason, its on him and his compatriots for letting the original expire to stick it to oil companies and "rich" people.

Whether that happens or not is something we'll have to watch for in the coming year.

 

[liblady]

and directly form the budget:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/receipts.pdf

 

[liblady]

Actually, that's his STATED intention.

Whether or not its his honest intention is one we can't answer for certain.

And because its his "intention" doesn't mean its going to happen. Look at the 50 people we're still going to be detaining indefinitely at that prison that's still open. Look at those people in Iraq coming home on the same time table in general George Bush had on. Look at the lobbyists he has in his administration. Look at the health care bill that's passed, or should I say not passed.

Sorry, Obama's either failed to delivered or just plane out ignored things he's stated he "intends" to do far to much for me to bank on them to just happen because he intends it.

If congress doesn't extend the lower portion of the tax cuts because they try to add stuff to it that's not needed or some other reason, its on him and his compatriots for letting the original expire to stick it to oil companies and "rich" people.

Whether that happens or not is something we'll have to watch for in the coming year.

it's in his budget proposal. i linked it for you. it might not happen, but to state that he's letting those cuts expire in total is a lie.

 

[Objective Voice]

All I know is you have to do something to spur this economy while also paying for the spending. I know Conservatives love their tax cuts and tax credits, but both still have to be paid for at some point. You can't just continue to give tax cuts/credits without having a revenue stream that exceed those very tax cuts/credits you provide. Otherwise, at some point in the near term you still have a deficit. Somebody has to pay for it. And in a capitalistic society that usually means those who provide the jobs get tax relief while those who perform the labor get screwed. The irony here is it is the labor force that keeps our economic gravy train going! Without people having the ability to purchase goods and services or even to invest, it is impossible for big business to become prosperus. Somehow, there has to be a middle ground in all this.

 

[Goobieman]

This is like posting a news story on the sun rising over the east coast.

 

[Erod]

you are certainly not. your post is misleading at best, a lie at worst. do you deny my counter?

And you are delusional if you don't see the implications of what he's trying to sneak under the table.

If he raises capital gains taxes to 20 percent, and if he raises the taxes on dividends to 39.6 percent, then why would any sane person invest in the first place? Investing is a risk/reward endeavor, and people with money (who were smart enough to earn it in the first place) are going to find other means to grow their money.

Good bye, more jobs.

Plus, his plan gets rid of all sorts of deductions for college expenses, property taxes, etc, that will kill the middle class.

Hello, more foreclosures.

All the while, he's raising the deficit to a record $1.56 trillion (remember when we were appalled that Bush raised it to $500 billion?), and the deficit to over $13 trilion.

Nice spending freeze, Obama.

We are going to be fully China's bitch any day now. Obama is trying to realize his dream of a populace totally at the mercy of government to create jobs and provide for us. He absolutely hates the private sector with a passion.

Congress had better burn this right in front of his treasonous face. We managed to elect Benedict Arnold as our president.
Obama wants us all completely at the mercy of his

 

[Goobieman]

perhaps you should find out what his budget really calls for....targeted expriation, not over all expiration of the tax cuts. you're very dishonest.

Speaking of someone being dishonest...

If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

This means taxes will go up for families making under $250K, which The Obama promised would not happen. Poor people who have not paid income tax since 2001 will have to start paying it again.

But, you are free to continue to make excuses to get Him off the hook...

 

[Erod]

All I know is you have to do something to spur this economy while also paying for the spending. I know Conservatives love their tax cuts and tax credits, but both still have to be paid for at some point.

You cut wasteful programs and spending, tighten your belt a couple of notches, cut taxes so that there is MORE revenue to tax, and you grit your teeth and push on until you've righted the ship.

Raising taxes only eliminates jobs, increases foreclosures, and reduces profits, which reduces tax revenue.

And to your point, the "poor" as we define it these days in America do not pay taxes. You can't continually ask the the people who create jobs and tax revenue to continue to solve the irresponsiblity of Washington.

Tax revenue annually is around $700+ billion. That is more than enough to provide a strong military and fund the administration of government. Way more than enough. It's the government that needs to cut spending, not us further funding their frivilous and out-of-touch ways.

 

[liblady]

Speaking of someone being dishonest...



This means taxes will go up for families making under $250K, which The Obama promised would not happen. Poor people who have not paid income tax since 2001 will have to start paying it again.

But, you are free to continue to make excuses to get Him off the hook...

please feel free to read what's actually been proposed. thanks.

 

[Erod]

please feel free to read what's actually been proposed. thanks.

I did. You're wrong.

 

[j-mac]

it's in his budget proposal. i linked it for you. it might not happen, but to state that he's letting those cuts expire in total is a lie.

the defense against what Reuters reports is "They're lying"? and you back it up essentially with 'Barry said so....'??? Really?

Look, I hope your right, I hope that Obama recognizes that raising taxes across the board would severely damage any sort of recovery he envisions to save his Presidency in 2012. But, I just can't see that sort of path to date with him. Everything this man utters is directly aimed at the middle class, and their income.

From raising energy prices, to targeting taxes at those who not only create the jobs in this country, but pay a lion share of the Federal taxes is destructive. And all you can muster is 'liar, liar, pants on fire!'....Good, stick with that.


j-mac

 

[liblady]

the defense against what Reuters reports is "They're lying"? and you back it up essentially with 'Barry said so....'??? Really?

Look, I hope your right, I hope that Obama recognizes that raising taxes across the board would severely damage any sort of recovery he envisions to save his Presidency in 2012. But, I just can't see that sort of path to date with him. Everything this man utters is directly aimed at the middle class, and their income.

From raising energy prices, to targeting taxes at those who not only create the jobs in this country, but pay a lion share of the Federal taxes is destructive. And all you can muster is 'liar, liar, pants on fire!'....Good, stick with that.


j-mac

actually, i have posted a link to the proposed budget, which proves my assertion. please read it. you are wrong here.

 

[Objective Voice]

And you are delusional if you don't see the implications of what he's trying to sneak under the table.

If he raises capital gains taxes to 20 percent, and if he raises the taxes on dividends to 39.6 percent, then why would any sane person invest in the first place? Investing is a risk/reward endeavor, and people with money (who were smart enough to earn it in the first place) are going to find other means to grow their money.

Good bye, more jobs.

Plus, his plan gets rid of all sorts of deductions for college expenses, property taxes, etc, that will kill the middle class.

Hello, more foreclosures.

All the while, he's raising the deficit to a record $1.56 trillion (remember when we were appalled that Bush raised it to $500 billion?), and the deficit to over $13 trilion.

Nice spending freeze, Obama.

We are going to be fully China's bitch any day now. Obama is trying to realize his dream of a populace totally at the mercy of government to create jobs and provide for us. He absolutely hates the private sector with a passion.

Congress had better burn this right in front of his treasonous face. We managed to elect Benedict Arnold as our president.
Obama wants us all completely at the mercy of his

This is just you ranting. Have you actually read the budget report liblady provided a link to? There are quite a few tax credits middle-class families can claim provided they qualify, i.e., the EITC ($1,000 per depn child; rate varies depending on the number of depn children [3+] and your household income/filing status, but you can get more than the standard $1,000 per child deduction up to a max of $5,657.), the Hope Scholarship Credit of $1,800 in tuition cost for students attending atleast a 2-yr college. That means even use as a parent can even claim the credit; the rules don't say you have to be a minor depn child, just that you be a student of a 2-yr college (minimum), the Making Work Pay tax credit, ($400 for singles, $800 for married couples), $7,500 first-time homebuyers tax credit, a tax credit for individuals who purchased a motor home, boat or other recreational/residential equipment (you'd have to read the rules to see who/what qualifies and how much for this credit because it varies), and there's even a tax deduction for a portion of your unemployment compensation or COBRA medical expenses. So, there are tax breaks there for some middle-class families. You just have to qualify and claim them.

 

[Erod]

This is just you ranting. Have you actually read the budget report liblady provided a link to? There are quite a few tax credits middle-class families can claim provided they qualify, i.e., the EITC ($1,000 per depn child; rate varies depending on the number of depn children [3+] and your household income/filing status, but you can get more than the standard $1,000 per child deduction up to a max of $5,657.), the Hope Scholarship Credit of $1,800 in tuition cost for students attending atleast a 2-yr college. That means even use as a parent can even claim the credit; the rules don't say you have to be a minor depn child, just that you be a student of a 2-yr college (minimum), the Making Work Pay tax credit, ($400 for singles, $800 for married couples), $7,500 first-time homebuyers tax credit, a tax credit for individuals who purchased a motor home, boat or other recreational/residential equipment (you'd have to read the rules to see who/what qualifies and how much for this credit because it varies), and there's even a tax deduction for a portion of your unemployment compensation or COBRA medical expenses. So, there are tax breaks there for some middle-class families. You just have to qualify and claim them.

No question it's a mish-mash of give and take. However, the tax on investments is going to send money running from the hills and out of the market altogether. That is going to kill the middle class.

Do you have a 401K? This is going to destroy what you thought you were going to have in retirement.

 

[liblady]

I did. You're wrong.

you're lying. the exact wording of the proposed budget details the expiration of tax cuts to those making over 250k. i've proved you wrong with the actual budget.

 

[Objective Voice]

the defense against what Reuters reports is "They're lying"? and you back it up essentially with 'Barry said so....'??? Really?

Look, I hope your right, I hope that Obama recognizes that raising taxes across the board would severely damage any sort of recovery he envisions to save his Presidency in 2012. But, I just can't see that sort of path to date with him. Everything this man utters is directly aimed at the middle class, and their income.

From raising energy prices, to targeting taxes at those who not only create the jobs in this country, but pay a lion share of the Federal taxes is destructive. And all you can muster is 'liar, liar, pants on fire!'....Good, stick with that.


j-mac

But that's just it. He hasn't proposed increasing taxes across the board. He has specifically targetted some tax cuts/credits for the middle-class at certain income levels and reduced or eliminated some "special tax credits" for some of the more wealthier individuals/families/corporations that have not paid their fair share over the years. I don't have a problem with that one bit, not if you're a major coorporation that has been given tax relief for nearly a decade. It's beyond time that they paid into the tax system.