Atheists Favorite Argument

[Galactic Spin]

No obliteration occurred from your responses. Ranting and raving just make you look silly.

A perfect example of you having no response to the arguments, as predicted and as repeatedly witnessed.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Right. Atheists lack the belief theists have that the the universe was intentionally caused to exist. However they usually say the reason they lack belief is because they allege their is no evidence our existence was intentionally caused. That's not true. They can say its not convincing evidence, its crappy evidence. They can say it doesn't persuade them or they can claim to have better evidence it was naturalistic forces all the way down.

I suppose one could make the argument that someone claiming the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists is evidence of its existence. Witness testimony and all that.

Perhaps instead of saying that there is no evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exits, it would be more correct in that sense to say that one does not find the evidence of the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster compelling.

It's a pretty pedantic argument. Are you hoping to get some internet points for being right on a technicality?

The position of atheists is that the evidence for all other deities is comparable to the evidence for a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Whether you call that no evidence, or just uncompelling evidence is not a particularly meaningful distinction.

 

[DrewPaul]

Let's review the terrible illogic once more:

"If one hypothesis must be true for a second hypothesis to be true, then the truth of the first hypothesis is evidence of the truth of the second hypothesis. "

Its simple but beyond your grasp despite my spoon feeding. I can't go lower than 5th grade comprehension. For instance, for you to claim the universe was unintentionally caused by natural mindless forces to be true the universe has to exist. Yes or no please. The fact the universe exists is evidence it was caused by natural forces. Do you acknowledge if the universe didn't exist your claim would be falsified?

By this specious garbage, the moon existing is therefore "evidence" the moon is made of cheese. Oh, and it's also "evidence" the moon is not made of cheese.

No and it's not do to me failing to spoon feed you. I wrote.

F1. The universe exists. This is a foundational fact. If the universe didn't exist neither claim would be true. This fact is evidence of either claim.

The mere existence of the universe is evidence of either claim therefore of little use. But its still a fact that makes either claim more probable than if not.

A circumstantial case it built by several facts

F2. Intelligent life exists. This is a foundational claim of theism. Theists believe the universe was intentionally caused and designed for intelligent life. Mindless naturalistic forces don't have to cause any life or intelligent life.
F3. The universe is fine-tuned for life. For the belief the universe was intentionally caused for life to exist it must be in a configuration that allows life to exist. No one can claim intelligent life had to exist. No one would predict or expect mindless forces minus any plan or intent cause life to exist. This evidence is so powerful it's the basis of multiverse theory.
F4. The fact the universe has laws of nature, is knowable, uniform and to a large extent predictable, amenable to scientific research and the laws of logic deduction and induction and is also explicable in mathematical terms.

Are you stating here the existence of the universe doesn't make your claim it was unintentionally caused more probable than it if didn't exist?

 

[DrewPaul]

To further elucidate:

This specious nonsense can just be turned around.

"Our universe exists."

"Our universe did not have a desgner."

"As our universe must exist for one to truthfully claim it has no designer, the existence of the universe is therefore evidence that our universe had no designer."

Wheeeeee, now all of our brians need showers.

Would you believe the universe was caused by natural mindless forces if the universe didn't exist? You're such a clever man-child I'm sure you wouldn't. Take your shower now.

 

[DrewPaul]

I suppose one could make the argument that someone claiming the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists is evidence of its existence. Witness testimony and all that.

Perhaps instead of saying that there is no evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exits, it would be more correct in that sense to say that one does not find the evidence of the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster compelling.

It's a pretty pedantic argument. Are you hoping to get some internet points for being right on a technicality?

The position of atheists is that the evidence for all other deities is comparable to the evidence for a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Whether you call that no evidence, or just uncompelling evidence is not a particularly meaningful distinction.

You can't do better than the flying spaghetti monster argument? Do you think that argument persuades anyone except totally convinced atheists?

The FSM aside the universe and intelligent life exist. Can you think of any circumstance in which it was caused to exist by neither purposeful intent or by naturalistic forces? I believe it was one of the other. Do you have anything intelligent to say about that? Can you make a case that it was mindless that did it?

 

[Lursa]

They're facts not suppositions.

No, unless proven they're not facts.

And we're all here waiting for you to prove them.

 

[Lursa]

No obliteration occurred from your responses. Ranting and raving just make you look silly.

He's not 'ranting or raving,' so your false accusation shows how weak your "arguments" are...all you did was answer "na huh" and then try to avoid the rest with hyperbole.

If you had solid fact and argument, you'd stick with that.

 

[Galactic Spin]

For instance, for you to claim the universe was unintentionally caused by natural mindless forces to be true the universe has to exist. Yes or no please. The fact the universe exists is evidence it was caused by natural forces. Do you acknowledge if the universe didn't exist your claim would be falsified?

You really are not getting it at all. Or, you are, and you are married to a specious, failed argument and cannot divorce yourself from it. The best part is how you just admitted how terrible your argument is by claiming the universe's existence is evidence it was designed and also evidence it was not designed.

I can only demonstrate this contradiction. I cannot give you the faculties to recognize it.

I fully explained why your argument is crap. You have yet to respond to this explanation. You cannot assail my logic or my premises, and you know it.

You are just repeating your error, over and over and over.

Your rudeness and whining will not help you.

 

[Lursa]

Would you believe the universe was caused by natural mindless forces if the universe didn't exist? You're such a clever man-child I'm sure you wouldn't. Take your shower now.

@_@ Wow (squared)

If something doesnt exist, nothing caused it.

 

[DrewPaul]

He's not 'ranting or raving,' so your false accusation shows how weak your "arguments" are...all you did was answer "na huh" and then try to avoid the rest with hyperbole.

If you had solid fact and argument, you'd stick with that.

Did you read the OP?

 

[DrewPaul]

@_@ Wow (squared)

If something doesnt exist, nothing caused it.

Exactly. The fact the universe does exist is evidence in favor of the belief it was caused intentionally by design or unintentionally by naturalistic forces.

 

[watsup]

No obliteration occurred from your responses. Ranting and raving just make you look silly.

You are an expert at psychological projection.

 

[Deuce]

You can't do better than the flying spaghetti monster argument? Do you think that argument persuades anyone except totally convinced atheists?

The FSM aside the universe and intelligent life exist. Can you think of any circumstance in which it was caused to exist by neither purposeful intent or by naturalistic forces? I believe it was one of the other. Do you have anything intelligent to say about that? Can you make a case that it was mindless that did it?

In the question of "God" or "No God," you're asking for a third option? Can you clarify?

 

[Lursa]

Exactly. The fact the universe does exist is evidence in favor of the belief it was caused intentionally by design or unintentionally by naturalistic forces.

That's not what your painfully constructed post implied at all. And now you just presented 'either/or,' which is meaningless.

You are trying to show it means it was intentionally designed. Prove it.

 

[grip]

Atheists often believe in infinite regress and sealioning as a form of debate.

For me, it doesn't make sense that there is no point of origin, regardless of what you call it.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Atheists often believe in infinite regress and sealioning as a form of debate.

For me, it doesn't make sense that there is no point of origin, regardless of what you call it.

This amateur gaslighting attempt will not help you.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a god or gods.
That’s all.

That is agnosticism.

Atheism is the belief that God does not exist.

Then there is Apatheism which is annoyance with all of you people who argue about what you can neither prove nor disprove.

LOL

 

[watsup]

Are you stating here the existence of the universe doesn't make your claim it was unintentionally caused more probable than it if didn't exist?

You are stating that there “IS” an Intelligent Designer. I don’t suppose that you are ready to tell us whether your ID was intentionally caused or was a result of mindless forces, eh? I thought not!

 

[Galactic Spin]

That is agnosticism.

Atheism is the belief that God does not exist.

Then there is Apatheism which is annoyance with all of you people who argue about what you can neither prove nor disprove.

Then there are very few atheists, by these definitions.

Really, atheism is just a lack of belief in gods. We have bastardized the meaning of the word, colloquially. But really, all agnostics are atheists. "Agnostic atheists".

Those who assert that there are no gods are "gnostic atheists".

 

[devildavid]

Are you saying the existence of the universe, stars, planets and life have no bearing on this question of whether it was intentionally caused?

Yes. Are we done now?

 

[DrewPaul]

That's not what your painfully constructed post implied at all. And now you just presented 'either/or,' which is meaningless.

You are trying to show it means it was intentionally designed. Prove it.

I can't prove it only offer evidence which you refuse to accept. Which is what atheists always do. Ask for evidence then deny there is any.

F1. The universe exists. This is a foundational fact. If the universe didn't exist neither claim would be true. This fact is evidence of either claim.
F2. Intelligent life exists. This is a foundational claim of theism. Theists believe the universe was intentionally caused and designed for intelligent life. Mindless naturalistic forces don't have to cause any life or intelligent life.
F3. The universe is fine-tuned for life. For the belief the universe was intentionally caused for life to exist it must be in a configuration that allows life to exist. No one can claim intelligent life had to exist. No one would predict or expect mindless forces minus any plan or intent cause life to exist. This evidence is so powerful it's the basis of multiverse theory.
F4. The fact the universe has laws of nature, is knowable, uniform and to a large extent predictable, amenable to scientific research and the laws of logic deduction and induction and is also explicable in mathematical terms.

Theism is a belief, an opinion. This doesn't prove we owe our existence to a Creator. It is evidence. that favors that belief.

 

[DrewPaul]

Yes. Are we done now?

Is anyone forcing you to look or respond?

 

[Daisy]

Atheists often believe in infinite regress and sealioning as a form of debate.

For me, it doesn't make sense that there is no point of origin, regardless of what you call it.

True...that often stifles any informative dialogue from occurring, so why bother?

 

[Galactic Spin]

Now that the specious garbage has been exposed, we see the normal progression of charlatans and their tactics.

Now, the retreat to worthless non sequitur has begun. As it always does.

Now, the tactic is propping up a non sequitur strawman: "So are you saying the existence of the universe has NO bearing on claims about it?"

Of course, saying it does would not even begin to demonstrate that it is therefore evidence of the truth of any claim about it.

But charlatans are often blind to their own errors and to the specious nature of their own tactics. Because they actually work pretty well, on less educated and less capable people.

That tinge of limited success gives the charlatans false confidence in their specious tactics.

Sometimes, that early, limited success just comes in the form of the charlatans fooling themselves.

 

[DrewPaul]

Really, atheism is just a lack of belief in gods.

Oh so you don't deny the universe might have been caused intentionally by a Creator you just lack the belief correct?