At what point does a magazine limit violate the second amendment

[Catawba]

I got to the second paragraph and stopped reading. It already had a lie in it. AR-15's are NOT assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles in which you have to pull the trigger each and every single shot. Why go on when it can't even get that simple fact straight?

BTW, what is this "we" buisness? Do you work for Morther Jones? Or the writer perhaps? Or are you the writer? If so you might want to fix that lie that was told in the article. And check over the facts of the rest of the article as there are more than likely other lies told since you apparently couldn't even get that simple fact straight.

They have to be automatic or select fire to be assault rifles. Semi-automatic-only versions of assault rifles are referred to as assault weapons.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Yep, that's my point, not a single person, even the NRA lawyers ever filed a single legal challenge to the 1994 federal ban concerning 2nd Amendment rights. So the federal ban has never been ruled unconstitutional under US rule of law.

Its amazing to me the number of people that try to deny that simple fact.

Someone among these many posts in which you spit out that mantra, can't remember who, posted two cases which challenged the ban. You should look for it. They quoted you so you should be able to find it much easier than me.

 

[Arbo]

They have to be automatic or select fire to be assault rifles. Semi-automatic-only versions of assault rifles are referred to as assault weapons.

There is no such real thing as an 'assault weapon'.

 

[Kal'Stang]

They have to be automatic or select fire to be assault rifles. Semi-automatic-only versions of assault rifles are referred to as assault weapons.

Just because they are "referred" to as assault weapons does not mean that they ARE assault weapons.

 

[Catawba]

Just because they are "referred" to as assault weapons does not mean that they ARE assault weapons.

According to you.

 

[Kal'Stang]

According to you.

And to those that want guns banned they are assault rifles...think i'll go with the correct term. The term that the military uses since they are the experts and you and I are just laymen. The military defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges.

 

[LaMidRighter]

They have to be automatic or select fire to be assault rifles. Semi-automatic-only versions of assault rifles are referred to as assault weapons.

NO THEY ARE NOT. The best way to look like you don't know what you are talking about is to call any firearm an assault weapon. The term is created legalese with no standard definition, it's meaningless.
Your classes of firearms are;
Pistol - Revolver or semi-automatic(one trigger pull, one bullet).
Shotgun - Large, usually smooth bore(no rifling) that fires either a slug or "shot"
Rifle - Comes from the "rifling" of the barrel, fires a larger cartridge
Sub-machine gun - full/burst autos that fire pistol ammunition
Machine gun - Normally crew served, belt fed weapons.

Rifle SUB CATAGORIES are;
Long rifle - full barel, not fully automatic or select fire
Assault rifle - select fire, short barrel, intermediate cartridge.

It gets a bit more complicated, but notice there is NO ASSAULT WEAPON CATAGORY in any of this.

 

[Catawba]

NO THEY ARE NOT. The best way to look like you don't know what you are talking about is to call any firearm an assault weapon. The term is created legalese with no standard definition, it's meaningless.
Your classes of firearms are;
Pistol - Revolver or semi-automatic(one trigger pull, one bullet).
Shotgun - Large, usually smooth bore(no rifling) that fires either a slug or "shot"
Rifle - Comes from the "rifling" of the barrel, fires a larger cartridge
Sub-machine gun - full/burst autos that fire pistol ammunition
Machine gun - Normally crew served, belt fed weapons.

Rifle SUB CATAGORIES are;
Long rifle - full barel, not fully automatic or select fire
Assault rifle - select fire, short barrel, intermediate cartridge.

It gets a bit more complicated, but notice there is NO ASSAULT WEAPON CATAGORY in any of this.

"The term “assault weapon” was a spin-off of the U.S. military’s definition of assault rifles. The U.S. Department of Defense has long defined assault rifles as fully automatic rifles used for military purposes.

Fully-automatic weapons have been prohibited in the U.S. since the National Firearms Act of 1934. Fully-automatic firearms can spray fire with a single pull of the trigger, while semi-automatic guns fire one shot with each pull of the trigger.
A Broadened Category of Assault Weapons

While civilian ownership of automatic weapons has been heavily regulated in the U.S. since 1934, most semi-automatic weapons remained legal until 1994.

The AWB defined a broad category of semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns with military-style characteristics as being “assault weapons.” The law made it illegal to make those weapons in the U.S. for a 10-year period. In 2004, the AWB expired when Congress did not vote to renew it. As a result, it became legal to produce and own those firearms once again."

Assault Weapons - The Classification, Definitions and Laws Regarding Assault Weapons

 

[LaMidRighter]

"The term “assault weapon” was a spin-off of the U.S. military’s definition of assault rifles. The U.S. Department of Defense has long defined assault rifles as fully automatic rifles used for military purposes.

No, assault weapon was created specifically by the gun control groups to "sound scary". At least get your talking points right.

Fully-automatic weapons have been prohibited in the U.S. since the National Firearms Act of 1934. Fully-automatic firearms can spray fire with a single pull of the trigger, while semi-automatic guns fire one shot with each pull of the trigger.

No they haven't, the only thing that did happen is they tied fully automatics to the FFLIII and required a tax stamp.

A Broadened Category of Assault Weapons

You know what zero x anything equals zero right. Since there is no such thing as an assault rifle.................

While civilian ownership of automatic weapons has been heavily regulated in the U.S. since 1934, most semi-automatic weapons remained legal until 1994.

Because most civilian used weapons are semi-automatic. DUH!

The AWB defined a broad category of semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns with military-style characteristics as being “assault weapons.” The law made it illegal to make those weapons in the U.S. for a 10-year period. In 2004, the AWB expired when Congress did not vote to renew it. As a result, it became legal to produce and own those firearms once again."

Do you realize how silly you sound using "military sytle", "broad catagory", and all these other stupid assed terms? You think putting an accessory rail on a gun and a bayonet lug makes it more dangerous? I'm about to be done with you.

Assault Weapons - The Classification, Definitions and Laws Regarding Assault Weapons

Right. About.com, because they are just the absolute last word in firearms classes, like the Brady Campaign, Josh Sugarman, and others who've never even fired a weapon. :roll:

 

[KevinKohler]

All guns were designed first for one purpose...to kill other humans. Look it up. The first "guns" were tools of war. Canons. Crossbows, if you want to consider them as such. Their purpose? To kill people on the "other side". Canons got smaller, but they were still being used to kill people...at close range...over any other purpose. It wasn't until YEARS after a hand held gun was developed that we started using them for anything other than people killing. Keep that history in mind, when you try to classify what guns are designated as "assault" or not. Because frankly, ALL guns, by their very design, and by the purpose of their initial invention...are assault weapons.

So now, what you want to do is try to split hairs over which guns are "more assaulty" than others, lol. But you're still looking at it wrong. It's not the gun, it's the FEATURES that make it so. What makes a standard M16 and assault rifle? The way it looks? The bullet it fires? The magazine capacity? Would a ten round capacity M16 be fine and dandy? No...it's the fact that it's full auto. You pull the trigger and hold it, and round after round after round flies outa the thing. THAT'S feature that deemed it no acceptable for normal civilian use. Know what? I agree with that. I don't think any old fella should be able to buy a full auto rifle, not even one that fires .22 rounds.

So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway.

 

[Kal'Stang]

No, assault weapon was created specifically by the gun control groups to "sound scary". At least get your talking points right.

Exactly right.

Because most civilian used weapons are semi-automatic. DUH!

Very true. A semi-automatic is basically a gun which is not fully automatic and where the bullet is fed into the chamber automatically. Are there ANY modern handguns which does not fit that description? If our politicians start messing around with definitions and put up a ban which bans thier "assault weapons" (thier incorrect term) which include semi-automatics then what type of gun exactly is the civilian populace going to be able to own? Single shot rifles? The civilians might as well be living in the 18th century if thats what it come to. Only everyone else will be able to advance.

 

[Zyphlin]

Magazine limits are as constitutional in my mind as laws that would place a word limit for printed/electronic political news articles.

Laws that don't outright ban a constitutionally protected right, but cuase it to be restricted to a point where one's ability to engage in said right in any meaningful way is greatly negated, are no less problematic than those that seek to outright ban the act.

 

[Kal'Stang]

So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway.

You'll lose that bet. Because there is NOTHING about the AR-15 which makes it an assault rifle. And it is actually less powerful than other semi-automatic rifles. So its not the power. Its single shot. So its not the amount of rounds that it can dispense as it is the same as any other regular semi-automatic rifle. A bayonet accessory is rediculous to even consider since that is for close fighting in which you have no bullets left. Kind of a last stand accessory in which no one else around you has bullets in their guns.

But hey, you came up with the question. And the way you did it implies that you already think that you know the answer. So what is the answer?

 

[Catawba]

So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway.

Here is what AR-15 owners say are the advantages:

"fans say military-style rifles are generally more accurate than handguns. Rifles are generally easier to learn how to shoot, say military-style rifle owners.

Like most firearms, military-style weapons such as the AR-15 are semiautomatic -- increasing protection because the shooter can fire off many shots without having to manually chamber a new bullet. With a bolt-action rifle or pump-action shotgun, firing multiple shots takes more time.

Why would someone own a military-style rifle? - CNN.com

"a properly set up AR-15 is easier to shoot accurately and delivers more firepower than a handgun, is more precise than a shotgun, more controllable than a subgun, and is easily configured with lights, lasers and other accessories to give you further advantages"

Home Defense with Your AR-15

"The AR-15 in particular is a very adaptable weapon, gun owners say. It's a platform gun with interchangeable parts, so users can substitute out stocks, barrels and other parts."

"They're very durable. They can bounce around in the pickup."

Assault weapon owners cite diverse reasons for owning the guns

"the AR15 holds its own against any of the other popular rifles out there."

"The AR15 is relatively affordable with base models starting out in the $600 range."

"the AR15 is well suited to stand up to high levels of abuse, levels of abuse which far surpass anything most people would be faced with."

"the AR platform performs well above the standard and has proven itself both in civilian tests and overseas in combat."

"The more AR15′s the better, especially if you need to source replacement parts."

"The availability of 5.56/223 ammunition and the fact that most of this ammo is manufactured in the US proves highly beneficial to all AR15 owners."

"The 5.56 round is plenty lethal for just about every purpose which one could be faced with"

"provides a great balance of effectiveness, weight, availability and cost."

"Plenty accurate for almost every situation which you might encounter."

"The ability to customize the AR15 platform makes it easier to personalize the gun so it fits your needs/style."

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...olate-second-amendment-34.html#post1061378831


You can PM for instructions of how to make your payment of $20 to me.

 

[TurtleDude]

anyone had a clue about what catawba is babbling about? none of that demonstrates that the AR 15 is "more dangerous" than other weapons

different environments suggest different weapons would be more "effective"

and AR 15 is pretty worthless for use in an extremely crowded small room or against targets behind cover at medium to substantial distances. sort of worthless against fast moving targets at short distances compared to say a shotgun

 

[Catawba]

Here is what AR-15 owners say are the advantages:

"fans say military-style rifles are generally more accurate than handguns. Rifles are generally easier to learn how to shoot, say military-style rifle owners.

Like most firearms, military-style weapons such as the AR-15 are semiautomatic -- increasing protection because the shooter can fire off many shots without having to manually chamber a new bullet. With a bolt-action rifle or pump-action shotgun, firing multiple shots takes more time.

Why would someone own a military-style rifle? - CNN.com

"a properly set up AR-15 is easier to shoot accurately and delivers more firepower than a handgun, is more precise than a shotgun, more controllable than a subgun, and is easily configured with lights, lasers and other accessories to give you further advantages"

Home Defense with Your AR-15

"The AR-15 in particular is a very adaptable weapon, gun owners say. It's a platform gun with interchangeable parts, so users can substitute out stocks, barrels and other parts."

"They're very durable. They can bounce around in the pickup."

Assault weapon owners cite diverse reasons for owning the guns

"the AR15 holds its own against any of the other popular rifles out there."

"The AR15 is relatively affordable with base models starting out in the $600 range."

"the AR15 is well suited to stand up to high levels of abuse, levels of abuse which far surpass anything most people would be faced with."

"the AR platform performs well above the standard and has proven itself both in civilian tests and overseas in combat."

"The more AR15′s the better, especially if you need to source replacement parts."

"The availability of 5.56/223 ammunition and the fact that most of this ammo is manufactured in the US proves highly beneficial to all AR15 owners."

"The 5.56 round is plenty lethal for just about every purpose which one could be faced with"

"provides a great balance of effectiveness, weight, availability and cost."

"Plenty accurate for almost every situation which you might encounter."

"The ability to customize the AR15 platform makes it easier to personalize the gun so it fits your needs/style."

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...olate-second-amendment-34.html#post1061378831


You can PM for instructions of how to make your payment of $20 to me.

Correction for the the link at the bottom - AR15: One of your best options when the SHTF | Prepper-Resources.com - The Ultimate Prepper & Survivalist Blog.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Here is what AR-15 owners say are the advantages:

"fans say military-style rifles are generally more accurate than handguns. Rifles are generally easier to learn how to shoot, say military-style rifle owners.

Like most firearms, military-style weapons such as the AR-15 are semiautomatic -- increasing protection because the shooter can fire off many shots without having to manually chamber a new bullet. With a bolt-action rifle or pump-action shotgun, firing multiple shots takes more time.

Why would someone own a military-style rifle? - CNN.com

"a properly set up AR-15 is easier to shoot accurately and delivers more firepower than a handgun, is more precise than a shotgun, more controllable than a subgun, and is easily configured with lights, lasers and other accessories to give you further advantages"

Home Defense with Your AR-15

"The AR-15 in particular is a very adaptable weapon, gun owners say. It's a platform gun with interchangeable parts, so users can substitute out stocks, barrels and other parts."

"They're very durable. They can bounce around in the pickup."

Assault weapon owners cite diverse reasons for owning the guns

"the AR15 holds its own against any of the other popular rifles out there."

"The AR15 is relatively affordable with base models starting out in the $600 range."

"the AR15 is well suited to stand up to high levels of abuse, levels of abuse which far surpass anything most people would be faced with."

"the AR platform performs well above the standard and has proven itself both in civilian tests and overseas in combat."

"The more AR15′s the better, especially if you need to source replacement parts."

"The availability of 5.56/223 ammunition and the fact that most of this ammo is manufactured in the US proves highly beneficial to all AR15 owners."

"The 5.56 round is plenty lethal for just about every purpose which one could be faced with"

"provides a great balance of effectiveness, weight, availability and cost."

"Plenty accurate for almost every situation which you might encounter."

"The ability to customize the AR15 platform makes it easier to personalize the gun so it fits your needs/style."

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...olate-second-amendment-34.html#post1061378831


You can PM for instructions of how to make your payment of $20 to me.

What about any of this makes it a rifle worthy of the title "assualt rifle"?

And if the AR15 is such a useful and dangerous weapon why isn't it standard for the military?

Oh and btw, I already answered him so the $20 isn't yours. Sorry but you lost out.

 

[TurtleDude]

What about any of this makes it a rifle worthy of the title "assualt rifle"?

And if the AR15 is such a useful and dangerous weapon why isn't it standard for the military?

Oh and btw, I already answered him so the $20 isn't yours. Sorry but you lost out.

you won't get much of an answer-his long winded bit of idiocy --if you noted when asked what made the AR 15 so dangerous that was the best he could come up with

 

[Catawba]

What about any of this makes it a rifle worthy of the title "assualt rifle"?

It isn't about what its called, its about the advantages guns like the AR-15 provide to the shooter.

And if the AR15 is such a useful and dangerous weapon why isn't it standard for the military?

The platform for the AR-15 was designed for military use.

Oh and btw, I already answered him so the $20 isn't yours. Sorry but you lost out.

He said serious takers! You presented none of the advantages the AR-15.

 

[TurtleDude]

It isn't about what its called, its about the advantages guns like the AR-15 provide to the shooter.



The platform for the AR-15 was designed for military use.



He said serious takers! You presented none of the advantages the AR-15.

more blathering idiocy. Catawba doesn't understand that many different types of weapons are more or less "deadly" in different environments. He just spews the far left Mother Jones turd droppings

 

[Kal'Stang]

It isn't about what its called, its about the advantages guns like the AR-15 provide to the shooter.

He said serious takers! You presented none of the advantages the AR-15.

Actually he said (and you even quoted) "So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway."

He didn't ask for what its advantages are. He asked what made it an "assault rifle" and "what makes it more dangerous than other rifles". Your answer did not apply to his question. Since nothing about the AR15, including what you cited and quoted, make it an assault rifle. And there are certainly other rifles which are more dangerous than the AR15.

Sorry, you failed.

The platform for the AR-15 was designed for military use.

And yet the AR15 is not being used for military use. Why is that?

 

[TurtleDude]

Actually he said (and you even quoted) "So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway."

He didn't ask for what its advantages are. He asked what made it an "assault rifle" and "what makes it more dangerous than other rifles". Your answer did not apply to his question. Since nothing about the AR15, including what you cited and quoted, make it an assault rifle. And there are certainly other rifles which are more dangerous than the AR15.

Sorry, you failed.



And yet the AR15 is not being used for military use. Why is that?

here is how catawba works

catawba hates conservatives

catawba thinks only conservatives own AR 15s

therefore catawba thinks by arguing for a ban on AR 15s he is going to bug conservatives

but what Catawba has never done is actually taken the time to understand the issues and learn about these weapons. so his blather comes off looking like idiotic psychobabble

 

[Catawba]

Actually he said (and you even quoted) "So, what FEATURES designate the AR-15 as being an assault rifle, in your opinion? What makes it so much more dangerous than other rifles? The way it looks? The round it fires? The magazine capacity? 20 bucks says I won't get a single taker on this question...not a serious one, anyway."

He didn't ask for what its advantages are. He asked what made it an "assault rifle" and "what makes it more dangerous than other rifles". Your answer did not apply to his question. Since nothing about the AR15, including what you cited and quoted, make it an assault rifle. And there are certainly other rifles which are more dangerous than the AR15.

Sorry, you failed.



And yet the AR15 is not being used for military use. Why is that?

Thanks for your opinion. I'll go with the opinions of all the actual AR-15 owners I quoted above as to the advantages the AR-15 provide to a shooter.

 

[TurtleDude]

Thanks for your opinion. I'll go with the opinions of all the actual AR-15 owners I quoted above as to the advantages the AR-15 provide to a shooter.

which has nothing to do with making the gun "more deadly" or more dangerous

moronic response there catawba-there are many rifles that work just like the AR 15. its biggest selling point is that so many people are familiar with them as are most gunsmiths.

 

[Catawba]

which has nothing to do with making the gun "more deadly" or more dangerous

moronic response there catawba-there are many rifles that work just like the AR 15. its biggest selling point is that so many people are familiar with them as are most gunsmiths.

You obviously did not read the advantages to a shooter given by owners. If you feel they are in no way superior, then you can't credibly claim they are needed for self defense. Just use any of the other guns you claim are the same for your 2nd Amendment purposes.