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Article III of the US Constitution

Yeah it is rather amazing to hear libertarians discover the world of semiotics as a way to avoid the plain language of Art III. But they'll try anything.

The funniest part of it is that the post-modernists believe that the original intent of the author is of no importance to meaning of a text
 
Hey, get your head of joaquin out of your ass for a minute and pay attention. NOBODY gets the meaning of the founders beamed into their head. Every judge interprets the text of a law and changes it in the process, even the ones who try not to. Thinking you can interpret a text and apply to new situations without changing is futile.

You are citing philosophers who believe that the original intent of the author is of no importance to meaning of a text. If you sincerely believe that those philosophers are right, instead of dishonestly using just the parts you like because it's convenient, then you have completely refuted your own position.
 
You are citing philosophers who believe that the original intent of the author is of no importance to meaning of a text. If you sincerely believe that those philosophers are right, instead of dishonestly using just the parts you like because it's convenient, then you have completely refuted your own position.

And what position is that, exactly? Don't you even remember that you two knuckleheads are the ones who were trying to say judicial review is part of original intent?
 
And what position is that, exactly? Don't you even remember that you two knuckleheads are the ones who were trying to say judicial review is part of original intent?

No, my position is that judicial review is explicitely included in the text of the constitution. Your position is that it was added onto constitutional law through interpretation and case law.

Knuckleheads think they know other peoples position better than the other person, when they don't
 
No, my position is that judicial review is explicitely included in the text of the constitution. Your position is that it was added onto constitutional law through interpretation and case law.

Knuckleheads think they know other peoples position better than the other person, when they don't

Yeah ok, you got the positions right, you just have no clue that you are making a fool out of yourself I guess.

The text of the constitution does not contain the words judicial review, and the judicial review power was grafted onto constitutional jurisprudence a generation after the constitution was ratified. Your attempt to make some bull**** originalist argument would make Scalia proud but flies in the face of semiotics and modern understanding of textual interpretation in general. Your position is laughable.
 
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The funniest part of it is that the post-modernists believe that the original intent of the author is of no importance to meaning of a text

Yes, exactly. Has it begun to dawn on you yet that you are talking yourself into a corner you probably don't want to be in?
 
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Yeah ok, you got the positions right, you just have no clue that you are making a fool out of yourself I guess.

The text of the constitution does not contain the words judicial review, .

RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

The text of the constitution doesn't include 'semi-automatic pistol' either, or freeway, or emails, or Catholics, yet the principles apply based on the text. And so it is with judicial review. Jurisdiction over cases involving the Constitution (the text of the constitution) IS judicial review. Just like "arms" in the 2nd Amendment includes semi-automatics, even though never mentioned.

This is pitiful.
 
RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

The text of the constitution doesn't include 'semi-automatic pistol' either, or freeway, or emails, or Catholics, yet the principles apply based on the text. And so it is with judicial review. Jurisdiction over cases involving the Constitution (the text of the constitution) IS judicial review. Just like "arms" in the 2nd Amendment includes semi-automatics, even though never mentioned.

This is pitiful.

Bull**** last ditch effort to win an argument you are clearly losing alert!

Face it, the constitution is silent on judicial review (conersely it is not silent on speech or religion, though it is silent on emails. Whether arms refers to semi automatic firearms we will have to wait and see what the supreme court decides that word means). Grafting on judicial review later was an act of interpretation which, as we know by way of modern semiotic theory, always involves changing the text. Judicial review was added later and that's ok, that's how law works. Your bull**** attempt to create an originalist argument for judicial review is very Scalia-esque, and just like Scalia's arguments it is utter bull**** that flies in the race of modern understandings of meaning and textual interpretation. Only a fool would say that the constitution contains judicial review.
 
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Yeah ok, you got the positions right, you just have no clue that you are making a fool out of yourself I guess.

So after calling me a "knucklehead" (after calling for civility in an earlier post) for not remembering my own position, and then being proven wrong, you think it's me who's acting like a fool? :lamo


The text of the constitution does not contain the words judicial review,

Never said that it did because it's irrelevant

and the judicial review power was grafted onto constitutional jurisprudence a generation after the constitution was ratified. Your attempt to make some bull**** originalist argument would make Scalia proud but flies in the face of semiotics and modern understanding of textual interpretation in general. Your position is laughable.

The bellief that the constitutions' clear and explicit requirements should be adhered to is not "originalism". It looks like you dont even understand the subject matter being discussed
 
So after calling me a "knucklehead" (after calling for civility in an earlier post) for not remembering my own position, and then being proven wrong, you think it's me who's acting like a fool? :lamo

I never called for civility. You are a knucklehead. And I remembered your argument, I was just trying to make sure that you remembered your argument. Because you are making so little sense it is not clear that you even understood your own case.

Never said that it did because it's irrelevant



The bellief that the constitutions' clear and explicit requirements should be adhered to is not "originalism". It looks like you dont even understand the subject matter being discussed

The constitution never explicitly mentions judicial review. Explicit would mean that it was mentioned in the text. You know, the thing you one paragraph earlier said was irrelevant. Can you at least try to maintain a coherent argument, or are you really too stupid to do that?
 
I never called for civility. You are a knucklehead. And I remembered your argument, I was just trying to make sure that you remembered your argument. Because you are making so little sense it is not clear that you even understood your own case.



The constitution never explicitly mentions judicial review. Explicit would mean that it was mentioned in the text. You know, the thing you one paragraph earlier said was irrelevant. Can you at least try to maintain a coherent argument, or are you really too stupid to do that?

No, "explicit" doesn't require that it uses the word "judicial review". You're as wrong about the word explicit as you are wrong about the word "interpret" requiring a change.
 
No, "explicit" doesn't require that it uses the word "judicial review". You're as wrong about the word explicit as you are wrong about the word "interpret" requiring a change.

If judicial review was explicitly mentioned in the constitution then it would be in the ****ing constitution. The word you're haplessly groping for is "implied."

And you are wrong about interpretation as well, the act of interpretation, by definition, necessitates change. But you are making Scalia and other right wing sophists very proud arguing to the contrary. Very foolish.
 
If judicial review was explicitly mentioned in the constitution then it would be in the ****ing constitution. The word you're haplessly groping for is "implied."

And you are wrong about interpretation as well, the act of interpretation, by definition, necessitates change. But you are making Scalia and other right wing sophists very proud arguing to the contrary. Very foolish.

judicial review *is* in the constitution.

Interpret | Define Interpret at Dictionary.com
 
judicial review *is* in the constitution.

Interpret | Define Interpret at Dictionary.com
God damn you are profoundly wrong. Do you realize how stupid your argument is? I notice you gave up trying to argue that judicial review is "explicitly" mentioned. I guess you looked that word up in the dictionary. And since we now both realize that judicial review is derived from a particular interpretation of the constitution you want to go to the dictionary about that. But this is where you are also wrong but in a less profound way, since it is a kind of complicated, difficult point that is going over your head. You can be excused for not having sufficient intellect to grasps higher concepts of semiotics. But since you cannot understand how the act of interpretation changes a text, this conversation is over. I win this debate by default, since you have demonstrated that you haven't got the intellectual chops to keep up.
 
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God damn you are profoundly wrong. Do you realize how stupid your argument is? I notice you gave up trying to argue that judicial review is "explicitly" mentioned. I guess you looked that word up in the dictionary. And since we now both realize that judicial review is derived from a particular interpretation of the constitution you want to go to the dictionary about that. But this is where you are also wrong but in a less profound way, since it is a kind of complicated, difficult point that is going over your head. You can be excused for not having sufficient intellect to grasps higher cocepta of semiotics. But since you cannot understand how the act of interpretation changes a text, this conversation is over. I win this debate by default, since you have demonstrated that you haven't got the intellectual chops to keep up.

The consitution is explicit about judicial review being a power of SCOTUS

Interpretation doesn't change meaning; it reveals meaning

but i will accept your surrender
 
The consitution is explicit about judicial review being a power of SCOTUS

Interpretation doesn't change meaning; it reveals meaning

You and Scalia think that, but those of us living in modernity reject this
medieval concept.

but i will accept your surrender
Once again, you interpretation has changed the meaning of what I wrote. You have proved yourself wrong!
 
Only a fool does not realize that the act of interpretation itself always changes the meaning of a text.

The very fact that there have been disputes throughout our history over what is meant in the constitution requires somebody to interpret that meaning to settle the arguments. If the meaning were clear, there would never be a dispute. This seems ridiculously obvious, but some feel a need to make an issue over a non-issue.
 
So now Guy is a semiologist.

Tell us, Derrida, how do you apply a law to the facts without actually reading the text and determining what it means. Are you getting messages from dead founders again?


Derrida...my favorite waste of time. Obscurantism anybody? Anybody? Buehler? hehe. This seems to be a favorite theme with some people these days. Don't apply any meaning to what I say, because what I say doesn't mean what you think it means, and if you ask me, you wont understand it anyway because whatever I said doesn't mean what I'm saying.
 
You are very simple minded. Read umberto Eco or Derrida. Educate yourself. Or rely on a dictionary for a discussion of highly phosophical concepts, ensuring that you remain simple minded and those higher concepts go sailing over your head. The choice is yours.


Ok...I see the problem. It's your infatuation with Derrida. Obscurantism isn't going to work very well in here I'm afraid. I think you may be jumping the shark. Don't assume that posters here aren't familiar with Derrida, deconstructionism, or post modernism.
 
You and Scalia think that, but those of us living in modernity reject this
medieval concept.


Once again, you interpretation has changed the meaning of what I wrote. You have proved yourself wrong!


You know saying that repeatedly isn't going to change anything. I mean, you can tell yourself that, but I'm afraid that's not going to make it true.
 
Bull**** last ditch effort to win an argument you are clearly losing alert!

Face it, the constitution is silent on judicial review (conersely it is not silent on speech or religion, though it is silent on emails. Whether arms refers to semi automatic firearms we will have to wait and see what the supreme court decides that word means). Grafting on judicial review later was an act of interpretation which, as we know by way of modern semiotic theory, always involves changing the text. Judicial review was added later and that's ok, that's how law works. Your bull**** attempt to create an originalist argument for judicial review is very Scalia-esque, and just like Scalia's arguments it is utter bull**** that flies in the race of modern understandings of meaning and textual interpretation. Only a fool would say that the constitution contains judicial review.



Article VI states explicity that "this constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof...shall be the supreme Law of the Land". This Supremacy clause establishes that whenever state law conflicts with either the constitution or with federal laws passed by Congress, state law must yield.

In Article 3. Section 1. Section 1.

The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.

Article 3. Section 2.
The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution.

I posted this earlier, perhaps you need to "review" it.

Marbury vs Madison.
The Supreme Court has the authority to review acts of Congress and determine whether they are unconstitutional and therefore void.

It is emphatically the duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret the rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Court must decide on the operation of each. If courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.

Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case in which the Court formed the basis for the exercise of judicial review in the United States under Article III of the Constitution. The landmark decision helped define the boundary between the constitutionally separate executive and judicial branches of the American form of government.

Under the Constitution, the SCOTUS is mostly supposed to hear appeals,. not to act as a trial court in cases such as Marbury's. Instead, Chief Justice Marshall pointed to a statutue authorizing the SCOTUS to issue the kind of remedy that Marbury sought, a "writ of mandamus" ordering government officials to perform their legal duties. By enacting that statute, Marshall's opinion reasoned, Congress had attempted to give the SCOTUS jurisdiction to act as a trial court in every case in which one party sought a writ of mandamus. In the view of most commentators, this was a clear misreading of the statute.

With the question framed in this way, Marshall answered it easily, by giving the ruling for which Marbury is famous: It would defeat the purposes of a written Constitution if the courts had to enforce unconstitutional statutes. The courts must exercise judicial review because the Constitution is law, and it is the essence of the judicial function "to say what law is".

Do you understand what that decision meant, or is it too obscure for you? Marshall could not violate the constitution by ruling on the case because the Supreme Court is an Appellate Court. SCOTUS had no jurisdiction to make a ruling. In order to adhere to the Constitution, Judicial Review was established. No previous case had forced that. The very structure of the Constitution required it. Marshall could either violate the Constitution or establish a precedent for judicial review. And that established the power of the Court as an equal branch of government.
 
Hey, get your head of joaquin out of your ass for a minute and pay attention. NOBODY gets the meaning of the founders beamed into their head. Every judge interprets the text of a law and changes it in the process, even the ones who try not to. Thinking you can interpret a text and apply to new situations without changing is futile.

Yeah, judges read texts of the law and apply them. Wow, what insight!

So much for the bizarre libertarian moaning about activists judges.
 
You and Scalia think that, but those of us living in modernity reject this
medieval concept.


Once again, you interpretation has changed the meaning of what I wrote. You have proved yourself wrong!

Medieval concept? That sitting judges should review laws? Does not seem medieval to this layman. It sounds like part of the job description to me.
 
Bull**** last ditch effort to win an argument you are clearly losing alert!

Face it, the constitution is silent on judicial review (conersely it is not silent on speech or religion, though it is silent on emails. Whether arms refers to semi automatic firearms we will have to wait and see what the supreme court decides that word means). Grafting on judicial review later was an act of interpretation which, as we know by way of modern semiotic theory, always involves changing the text. Judicial review was added later and that's ok, that's how law works. Your bull**** attempt to create an originalist argument for judicial review is very Scalia-esque, and just like Scalia's arguments it is utter bull**** that flies in the race of modern understandings of meaning and textual interpretation. Only a fool would say that the constitution contains judicial review.

The Constitution doesn't say the word "immigration" either, yet we have a federal immigration policy. Should the federal government not be allowed to have an immigration policy?
 
The Constitution doesn't say the word "immigration" either, yet we have a federal immigration policy. Should the federal government not be allowed to have an immigration policy?

Wait for it, wait for it, wait for Guy's ineluctable spin!
 
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