Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

[apdst]

Just like the army ditched 556 and 9mm after using them for a few years.
The truth of the matter is you are out of your league here but just can't admit it. You should just move along before embarrassing yourself further.

And you know everything?

 

[braindrain]

And you know everything?

No I don't. Not even close. But I know a whole heck of a lot more about this topic then you do.

 

[apdst]

No I don't. Not even close. But I know a whole heck of a lot more about this topic then you do.

Coulda fooled me, and everyone else here. :lamo

 

[Divine_Wind]

Meanwhile, while my Marlin 1895GS was already tapped for a sling, I still needed a sling and swivels. I decided to go old school and bought both a nice leather 1907 military sling and a set of nickel-plated Uncle Mike swivels.

Not many people use military slings, except for competition shooters. I like them because they are very handing for shooting from the sitting or kneeling position.

 

[SLC]

I'm not part of the smaller bullet = more lethality school of thought. That's why I never bought into the notion that a .224 bullet is more lethal than a .30 bullet, even though the .224 is about 400 fps faster than the .30.

Well in medical school we were taught pathology by the head pathologist for Fort Worth/Tarrant county. They taught us the speed of the bullet when is hits tissue cause a shock wave in the tissue that destroys tissue in that shockwave. Very fast bullets destroy much more tissue than slow rounds do. He showed us several post mortem pictures of damage by M 16 rounds and AK47 round. The .223 [~3200ft/sec] did much more damage to human tissue than 7.62 round [~2300ft/sec]

 

[Exactice]

Meanwhile, while my Marlin 1895GS was already tapped for a sling, I still needed a sling and swivels. I decided to go old school and bought both a nice leather 1907 military sling and a set of nickel-plated Uncle Mike swivels.

Not many people use military slings, except for competition shooters. I like them because they are very handing for shooting from the sitting or kneeling position.

Its Funny.... To be honest... the "HOT" item recently is the 1 point slings.... magpul got all crazy with their "Art of the Dynamic Carbine" It make sense with carbine systems.... But lets face it there is a HUGE long rifle following as well.... and guess what full lenght 2 point slings Work JUST as well as 1 point... Just gotta know how to use it.

Still love my leather strapped M14 sling on my heavy @$$ M25. Currently went BACK to a modified 2 point system on all my weapons systems as I was tired of getting my balls busted (literally) during pistol transition from the single point!

 

[Divine_Wind]

Well in medical school we were taught pathology by the head pathologist for Fort Worth/Tarrant county. They taught us the speed of the bullet when is hits tissue cause a shock wave in the tissue that destroys tissue in that shockwave. Very fast bullets destroy much more tissue than slow rounds do. He showed us several post mortem pictures of damage by M 16 rounds and AK47 round. The .223 [~3200ft/sec] did much more damage to human tissue than 7.62 round [~2300ft/sec]

It depends. Of course, I sure the pathologist was showing FMJ bullets. I just SPs and HPs for all of my rifles. Although I have a Bushmaster 5.56, I'm an AK/SKS fan of the 7.62X39MM as a greater hog killer over the relatively puny 5.56. War is one thing but it's governed by the Geneva Convention. Hunting is another. For home defense and hunting, I recommend the best hunting rounds over military FMJs.

 

[apdst]

Well in medical school we were taught pathology by the head pathologist for Fort Worth/Tarrant county. They taught us the speed of the bullet when is hits tissue cause a shock wave in the tissue that destroys tissue in that shockwave. Very fast bullets destroy much more tissue than slow rounds do. He showed us several post mortem pictures of damage by M 16 rounds and AK47 round. The .223 [~3200ft/sec] did much more damage to human tissue than 7.62 round [~2300ft/sec]

Do you believe that a 9mm Luger bullet will do more tissue damage than a 45 ACP bullet?

 

[Divine_Wind]

Its Funny.... To be honest... the "HOT" item recently is the 1 point slings.... magpul got all crazy with their "Art of the Dynamic Carbine" It make sense with carbine systems.... But lets face it there is a HUGE long rifle following as well.... and guess what full lenght 2 point slings Work JUST as well as 1 point... Just gotta know how to use it.

Still love my leather strapped M14 sling on my heavy @$$ M25. Currently went BACK to a modified 2 point system on all my weapons systems as I was tired of getting my balls busted (literally) during pistol transition from the single point!

One-point slings are great for patrolling a village since they can easily bring a weapon to bear, but for shooting accuracy, I like the 2-point sling for hunting and long range shooting.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Do you believe that a 9mm Luger bullet will do more tissue damage than a 45 ACP bullet?

The 9mm has greater penetration, but the .45 transfers more energy into the target. I.E. More damage. No, I'm not an expert in ballistics, reloading or calculating such things. Just a shooter.

 

[apdst]

Meanwhile, while my Marlin 1895GS was already tapped for a sling, I still needed a sling and swivels. I decided to go old school and bought both a nice leather 1907 military sling and a set of nickel-plated Uncle Mike swivels.

Not many people use military slings, except for competition shooters. I like them because they are very handing for shooting from the sitting or kneeling position.

I like the military style sling. I have one and swap it to whichever rifle I'm using.

I like the mil-surp web slings for my AR's; the G3 and SKS/AK slings.

 

[apdst]

The 9mm has greater penetration, but the .45 transfers more energy into the target. I.E. More damage. No, I'm not an expert in ballistics, reloading or calculating such things. Just a shooter.

Don't tell me, tell SLC.

 

[apdst]

The 9mm has greater penetration, but the .45 transfers more energy into the target. I.E. More damage. No, I'm not an expert in ballistics, reloading or calculating such things. Just a shooter.

I looked it up. In the energy department, they're in the same neighborhood.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Don't tell me, tell SLC.

You're more reasonable.

 

[SLC]

My son is on the SWAT team for North Tarrant County. He has a Noveske 14.5" Thunder Ranch AR15 I have shot it a few times its a very sweet gun. I'd like to shoot some pigs with it.

 

[SLC]

You're more reasonable.

I was talking about the .223 round apdst questioned its lethality. Post some gelatin tests of a ,223 round.

 

[Divine_Wind]

FWIW, I've got too many guns, yes, it's true, and need to cut down. Buying the Marlin was a spur of the moment thing but I admit to loving it ever since seeing Jeremy Renner's character use it in the movie "Wind River". His was a scoped SBL model with 500 grain handloads. Factory loads are 300-325 grains.

Still, I need to cut back by about a third. The hard part nowadays is selling guns because the anti-gun mob has forced so many outlets to shut down such as Craig's List and Facebook.

 

[Divine_Wind]

My son is on the SWAT team for North Tarrant County. He has a Noveske 14.5" Thunder Ranch AR15 I have shot it a few times its a very sweet gun. I'd like to shoot some pigs with it.

I shot my first feral hog with Ruger mini-14 .223. Accuracy counts for dropping a pig. Of course it depends upon the range and the size of the pig. For eating, anything under 24 inches at the shoulder is sweet. Over that, they get a little tough and stringy. There's the matter of a humane kill; a 30 caliber or larger is more likely to kill plus less likely to be deflected by leaves and branches than a .223/5.56. Shooting a hog in the jaw and watching it run off ethically requires a hunter to track it down and put it out of its misery rather than letting it suffer by starving to death. IMO, the 7.62X39 with SPs or HPs is very effective and more certain of a kill. Although it's maximum effective range is shorter comparatively that doesn't matter since, in North Texas, most hogs won't be seen more than 100 yards away. I wouldn't take a shot if a hog was over 150 yards away with a 7.62X39 out of concern I couldn't place a kill shot through the heart/lungs but I wouldn't take the shot with 5.56 either. .308s and larger are a different matter.

 

[Divine_Wind]

I looked it up. In the energy department, they're in the same neighborhood.

Yes, F = MA, but it's a matter of energy transfer, not total energy. If a bullet penetrates a target and keeps going, that's energy that wasn't transferred.

 

[SLC]

Do you believe that a 9mm Luger bullet will do more tissue damage than a 45 ACP bullet?

You were talking about the lethality of the ,223 round. I like the slowed but higher mass of a 45 round. Mass and speed are both factors of Kinetic Energy transferred to the target. Would you rather get hit by a bullet traveling 900 ft per sec or the same size bullet traveling 3200 ft per sec.

 

[SLC]

My brother has hogs on his land in east Texas. He has been shooting them with a Russian Mosin Nagant Rifle that I gave him. I got him a Savage Creedmore to replace the Nagant for hog shooting. He said the Creedmore is a lot more easy on his shoulder.:lol:

As a side note the most prolific sniper in history used a Nagant.

 

[Divine_Wind]

My brother has hogs on his land in east Texas. He has been shooting them with a Russian Mosin Nagant Rifle that I gave him. I got him a Savage Creedmore to replace the Nagant for hog shooting. He said the Creedmore is a lot more easy on his shoulder.:lol:

As a side note the most prolific sniper in history used a Nagant.

A Mosin would certainly do the job all the way out to 500 yards. Is it scoped?

I don't know anything about the Creedmore. I know it's all the rage right now and skimmed over the chit-chat on it, but, as stated earlier, I have enough guns including a couple of Mosins, a Mauser and a DPMS .308. I doubt I'll get rid of those, but have some smaller calibers I don't need.

My two Mosins:

 

[apdst]

You were talking about the lethality of the ,223 round. I like the slowed but higher mass of a 45 round. Mass and speed are both factors of Kinetic Energy transferred to the target. Would you rather get hit by a bullet traveling 900 ft per sec or the same size bullet traveling 3200 ft per sec.

A .30 bullet has more mass than a 6.5mm.

I don't want to get hit with either one.

 

[apdst]

FWIW, I've got too many guns, yes, it's true, and need to cut down. Buying the Marlin was a spur of the moment thing but I admit to loving it ever since seeing Jeremy Renner's character use it in the movie "Wind River". His was a scoped SBL model with 500 grain handloads. Factory loads are 300-325 grains.

Still, I need to cut back by about a third. The hard part nowadays is selling guns because the anti-gun mob has forced so many outlets to shut down such as Craig's List and Facebook.

The problem with owning a large gun collection is having to keep them clean.

 

[apdst]

I shot my first feral hog with Ruger mini-14 .223. Accuracy counts for dropping a pig. Of course it depends upon the range and the size of the pig. For eating, anything under 24 inches at the shoulder is sweet. Over that, they get a little tough and stringy. There's the matter of a humane kill; a 30 caliber or larger is more likely to kill plus less likely to be deflected by leaves and branches than a .223/5.56. Shooting a hog in the jaw and watching it run off ethically requires a hunter to track it down and put it out of its misery rather than letting it suffer by starving to death. IMO, the 7.62X39 with SPs or HPs is very effective and more certain of a kill. Although it's maximum effective range is shorter comparatively that doesn't matter since, in North Texas, most hogs won't be seen more than 100 yards away. I wouldn't take a shot if a hog was over 150 yards away with a 7.62X39 out of concern I couldn't place a kill shot through the heart/lungs but I wouldn't take the shot with 5.56 either. .308s and larger are a different matter.

Your 45/70 is a hog killin sumbitch.