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Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

TU Curmudgeon

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From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

COMMENT:-

It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.
 

MSgt

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From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

COMMENT:-


It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.

The pistol is a good personal option for room clearing.

But we aren't talking about the difference between a Colt Dragoon revolver and a Glock. I don't see how the difference between the Beretta and this new M17 (SIG) is supposed to change combat tactics. It's still just a 9mm, it is still magazine fed, and it still needs only one hand to fire (though this is not proper so I have no idea why this is one of their supposed selling points - so the other hand can be taking selfies?).
 
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Rexedgar

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The pistol is a good personal option for room clearing.

But we aren't talking about the difference between a Colt Dragoon revolver and a Glock. I don't see how the difference between the Beretta and this new M17 (SIG) is supposed to change combat tactics. It's still just a 9mm, it is still magazine fed, and it still needs only one hand to fire (though this is not proper so I have no idea why this is one of their supposed selling points - so the other hand can be taking selfies?).



........the missus is hell with a Swiffer...........:mrgreen:

.....isn’t “dismounted” infantry just infantry....?
 

MSgt

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........the missus is hell with a Swiffer...........:mrgreen:

.....isn’t “dismounted” infantry just infantry....?

Yup. But it's because of that mounted part that a rifle is cumbersome. Although, it became routine as the wars went on to start increasing inventory and issuing M4s.
 

Bum

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From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

COMMENT:-

It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.

Personally, I would have gone with 10mm.....but that would have thrown a wrench into the NATO STANAG.
 

JustHanging

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The pistol is a good personal option for room clearing.

But we aren't talking about the difference between a Colt Dragoon revolver and a Glock. I don't see how the difference between the Beretta and this new M17 (SIG) is supposed to change combat tactics. It's still just a 9mm, it is still magazine fed, and it still needs only one hand to fire (though this is not proper so I have no idea why this is one of their supposed selling points - so the other hand can be taking selfies?).

I always enjoy your posts, they are very informative as a rule. And that bolded sentence made me snort coffee all over the keyboard. :)
 

JustHanging

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Can't be true . The source is Faux news.

No no no, that is not the way evaluating sources works. I think I understand why some of your posts are so at odds with reality now.

Any source can have accurate information. Look at it this way: Even Trump tells the truth sometimes, right? But obviously only an idiot would believe anything he says without first confirming it with a reputable source.

Based on this and other posts you've made, I think this would be a good place for you to start: Jefferson Middle School: Evaluating Sources

Lots of links to good sites, which can explain to you why your post is so wrong.
 

MSgt

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I always enjoy your posts, they are very informative as a rule. And that bolded sentence made me snort coffee all over the keyboard. :)

Ha. This reminds me of the last time I snorted out coffee all over a keyboard. Somebody had sent me a cartoon caption that also happened to poke fun at the iphone/social media generation. Message to Garcia used to be required reading about a soldier who tapped into his ingenuity and efforts to deliver an important message from President McKinley to General Garcia during the Spanish-American War. I opened my email one morning to this:


m09040614garciacolor3971.jpg

Hey! And the pistol is one hand!
 

TU Curmudgeon

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No no no, that is not the way evaluating sources works. I think I understand why some of your posts are so at odds with reality now.

Any source can have accurate information. Look at it this way: Even Trump tells the truth sometimes, right? But obviously only an idiot would believe anything he says without first confirming it with a reputable source.

Based on this and other posts you've made, I think this would be a good place for you to start: Jefferson Middle School: Evaluating Sources

Lots of links to good sites, which can explain to you why your post is so wrong.

"Jefferson Middle School"?

Don't you have something more along the lines that he can understand, like from Grade School?
 

PoS

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Personally, I would have gone with 10mm.....but that would have thrown a wrench into the NATO STANAG.

10mm? Thats a hot load. Ive heard pistols using that caliber develop cracks in their barrels after just a few hundred rounds fired. I prefer the 45 ACP myself.
 

PleasantValley

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From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

COMMENT:-

It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.

I agree 100% with what you said, and would like to add...

"engage the enemy up close with one hand"?
We did that repeatedly with the 1911.
and both sides did it repeatedly with the P-35 Browning Hi-Power.
...and you can still do it now with them.

We went backwards with the M9, I think.
I remember them saying they went to the M9 because they needed a pistol troops with smaller hands could use, so they approved a pistol with a fatter grip.
Yup, that is government logic for you.

...AND...when they stop to think on it, the 7mm or 6.5mm is an almost perfect compromise of velocity & hitting power.
We and the Brits were going to go with the .276 round, but Hitler interrupted that exercise.
The M1 Garand would have held 10 rounds.
 
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prometeus

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I agree 100% with what you said, and would like to add...

"engage the enemy up close with one hand"?
We did that repeatedly with the 1911.
and both sides did it repeatedly with the P-35 Browning Hi-Power.
...and you can still do it now with them.

We went backwards with the M9, I think.
I remember them saying they went to the M9 because they needed a pistol troops with smaller hands could use, so they approved a pistol with a fatter grip.
Yup, that is government logic for you.
That was just motivation for them to grow their hands to be like Trump.
 

PleasantValley

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That was just motivation for them to grow their hands to be like Trump.

(rolling my eyes at yet another off topic excuse to Trump bash)

You guys are more fixated on Trump than those Trump supporters are.
You live, breathe, and eat Trump 24 hours a day and can't quit talking about him for even one minute, can you?
What will be the purpose of your life once he is out of office?
 

PleasantValley

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10mm? Thats a hot load. Ive heard pistols using that caliber develop cracks in their barrels after just a few hundred rounds fired. I prefer the 45 ACP myself.

I have read the same about the 40 S&W.
I heard lots of organizations are going back to the 9mm for that reason.

Maybe the .45 ACP and the 9mm have been around for over a hundred years for a reason?
They work and don't beat up pistols.
 

Skeptic Bob

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The pistol is a good personal option for room clearing.

But we aren't talking about the difference between a Colt Dragoon revolver and a Glock. I don't see how the difference between the Beretta and this new M17 (SIG) is supposed to change combat tactics. It's still just a 9mm, it is still magazine fed, and it still needs only one hand to fire (though this is not proper so I have no idea why this is one of their supposed selling points - so the other hand can be taking selfies?).

I can think of several scenarios in which you may need to fire one-handed. They are all scenarios you definitely don’t want to find yourself in, but it happens.
 

prometeus

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(rolling my eyes at yet another off topic excuse to Trump bash)

You guys are more fixated on Trump than those Trump supporters are.
You live, breathe, and eat Trump 24 hours a day and can't quit talking about him for even one minute, can you?
What will be the purpose of your life once he is out of office?
Wow, to you everything is Trump bash? Lighten up it is not healthy for you. It was JUST a joke.
 

smallvoice

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........the missus is hell with a Swiffer...........:mrgreen:

.....isn’t “dismounted” infantry just infantry....?

Yes, and so are paratroopers after they land.
 

smallvoice

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They can't think beyond six years...
(rolling my eyes at yet another off topic excuse to Trump bash)

You guys are more fixated on Trump than those Trump supporters are.
You live, breathe, and eat Trump 24 hours a day and can't quit talking about him for even one minute, can you?
What will be the purpose of your life once he is out of office?
 

TU Curmudgeon

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I can think of several scenarios in which you may need to fire one-handed. They are all scenarios you definitely don’t want to find yourself in, but it happens.

One of my shooting instructors once said (this will be, of course, a paraphrase) "In a suddenly developed close combat situation, the accurate range of the Browning 9mm is approximately 6'. That's the combined length of your arm and the lanyard on the pistol because you have a better chance to hit the target by swinging the think around your head than you do if you shoot it.".

I do note that he was talking about a "suddenly developed close combat situation" and NOT talking about what you could do at leisure on the pistol range.
 

ecofarm

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I disliked the Beretta. Didn't like weight distribution, sights, grip size, slide, anything.


Yes, and so are paratroopers after they land.

We had humvees and occasionally Sheridans.
 
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hanger4

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I can think of several scenarios in which you may need to fire one-handed. They are all scenarios you definitely don’t want to find yourself in, but it happens.

In deed, not to mention opening doors, moving objects, throwing objects.
 
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