Are you right or left libertarian ?

[Fletch]

exaclty everyone is a liar except for this new cult

I don't know what you are talking about and I don't plan to expend any effort trying to find out. This thread is about libertarians not fringe commies.

 

[Henrin]

no i mean you can discuss it open and honestly with people who disagree with you, like what regulations you dont like it and the ones you do, but it is dishonest for you proclaim everyone disagrees with you hates liberty "hate liberty" or "hates america" or "hates freedom"

How can you support liberty when you want to ban access to guns for certain people? For example, how can you support liberty when you want to ban mentally ill people from having guns? Why would they not have a right to a gun?

 

[dimensionallava]

I don't know what you are talking about and I don't plan to expend any effort trying to find out. This thread is about libertarians not fringe commies.

so your saying i dont have a right to post here because of my beleifs?... how libertarian of you :roll:

 

[Casca XV]

I take it you are a "right" Lib (Libertarian). Just out of curiosity, are you also a Christian?

Religion has nothing to do with being a Libertarian. It's about Limited power Govt and individual freedom.

 

[dimensionallava]

How can you support liberty when you want to ban access to guns for certain people? For example, how can you support liberty when you want to ban mentally ill people from having guns? Why would they not have a right to a gun?

thats a criticism there are plenty of other things that you can say "How can you support liberty when you want to (insert issue here)" but nobody ever says they "hate liberty"

 

[Henrin]

thats a criticism there are plenty of other things that you can say "How can you support liberty when you want to (insert issue here)" but nobody ever says they "hate liberty"

Why would anyone say they hate liberty?

 

[dimensionallava]

Why would anyone say they hate liberty?

thats a great question

That’s the whole point of good propaganda.You want to create a slogan that nobody’s going to be against, and everybody’s going to be for.Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn’t mean anything.Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: Do you support our policy? That’s the one you’re not allowed to talk about. -Noam Chomsky

 

[ttwtt78640]

this is whats called ideological dishonesty, there are no parties that are against those things.

Yet both of these statements would have you assume that neither current political parties supports these values, and that "a 3rd way is necessary", even if the establishment of this new way is done through force

I assume no such thing. Change can, and most often does, come by increments which is more like evolution than revolution. The primary problem that I have with both major parties is that they seem to agree that the "importance" of a matter should define the level of government at which it is addressed. This "mission creep" creates an ever growing (in size, scope and expense) federal government which can then only be changed at the federal level.

 

[Fledermaus]

There's no such thing as a leftist libertarian - it is a contradiction in terms.

A libertarian is an advocate of small, very limited government...

A leftist is someone who wants government - lots and lots of government - big government...

You could possibly be a libertarian and a federalist - and as a federalist advocate safety net programs on the state level. Unfortunately, such concessions to positive government come with the inevitable danger of government creep which leftists will exploit to the point where you will invariably find yourself living in an over-regulated society with bloated government.

Not to mention the leftists, as is their nature, will always be pushing for consolidation and centralization - which is where we are now in this God-forsaken country.

Anyone who fancies themselves a "Libertarian leftist" is not a libertarian.

Not quite....

Not even close in fact.

 

[Fledermaus]

And NOBODY from the right has ever done that???? :roll:

***cough cough Reagan cough cough ***

The Godfather and Messiah of the present day conservatives....

Lincoln expanded the Federal government as well.

 

[Henrin]

thats a great question

Here is a better one. Do most libertarians actually support what the definition of the word calls for.

The answer to that question is no.

 

[Casca XV]

There is no practical small government way of building an interstate highway system, securing our borders or defending our nation from outside invasion. IMHO, what makes a right libertarian is honestly evaluating the role and level of government required to provide adequate safety, order and infrastructure while preserving maximum practical individual freedom.

Actually The Highway system was almost 100% built by private contractors not Govt workers. There were a few Govt Bureaucrats who over saw the contracts and wrote the checks but that is it. That the building and maintenance of the US Highway system is a Govt accomplishment is one of the biggest lies ever told.

Although the Govt does nothing well there are some things only the Govt can do Military, Police, Firefighters. Libertarian believe in keeping Govt out of anything the private sector is capable of doing themselves.

 

[dimensionallava]

I assume no such thing. Change can, and most often does, come by increments which is more like evolution than revolution. The primary problem that I have with both major parties is that they seem to agree that the "importance" of a matter should define the level of government at which it is addressed. This "mission creep" creates an ever growing (in size, scope and expense) federal government which can then only be changed at the federal level.

There are plenty of people just like you in both major political parties who beleive the exact same thing, so theres no need for a "3rd way"

 

[Fletch]

so your saying i dont have a right to post here because of my beleifs?... how libertarian of you :roll:

I didn't say you couldn't post here. I just said I wasn't going to expend any more energy on your posts. I find anyone with a communist lean to have engaged in self-disqualification from any discussion. The same applies to anyone who would use fascist as a political lean. The truth is Hitler and fascism are the faces of evil in the 20th Century when the real faces of evil were Stalin and communism. There are tens of millions, possibly hundreds of millions who suffered and died at the hands of communist monsters in the last century. No ones should be carrying that banner today. No one.

 

[Casca XV]

Lincoln expanded the Federal government as well.

Like Bush, Lincoln expanded Govt to fight a war. Unlike Obama/Hillary/Bernie neither of them did it to permanently take away Americans individual freedoms.

 

[dimensionallava]

Here is a better one. Do most libertarians actually support what the definition of the word calls for.

The answer to that question is no.

thats because their really fascists. they just don't like that word

 

[Henrin]

thats because their really fascists. they just don't like that word

:roll: How is minarchism a form of fascism?

 

[dimensionallava]

I didn't say you couldn't post here. I just said I wasn't going to expend any more energy on your posts. I find anyone with a communist lean to have engaged in self-disqualification from any discussion. The same applies to anyone who would use fascist as a political lean. The truth is Hitler and fascism are the faces of evil in the 20th Century when the real faces of evil were Stalin and communism. There are tens of millions, possibly hundreds of millions who suffered and died at the hands of communist monsters in the last century. No ones should be carrying that banner today. No one.

sure all fascists hate stalin

 

[ttwtt78640]

There are plenty of people just like you in both major political parties who beleive the exact same thing, so theres no need for a "3rd way"

Obviously not enough of them since federal government size, power and scope continue to increase. I believe that the difficulty of creating a new party is not needed. Both major parties are now plagued by having outsiders seek the office of POTUS under their names - that, rather than making a 3rd party, is the way change is most likely to occur.

 

[joG]

Here is a better one. Do most libertarians actually support what the definition of the word calls for.

The answer to that question is no.

Naw. If a guy doesn't do the libertarian thing he isn't libertarian. 'just says he is.

 

[Casca XV]

And NOBODY from the right has ever done that???? :roll:

***cough cough Reagan cough cough ***

The Godfather and Messiah of the present day conservatives....

Feel free specify how Reagan reduced individual liberty? Building up parts of the military to cause the destruction of the USSR is not the same as reducing Americans freedoms.

 

[dimensionallava]

:roll: How is minarchism a form of fascism?

fascists want minarchism the same way they want free speech.... just for them

 

[Casca XV]

sure all fascists hate stalin

Fascism is another danger of a large all powerful government. Like Socialism, Fascism requires a large all powerful government to function. American Libertarians and Conservatives don’t qualify to be Fascist because their most fundamental desire is individual freedom and limited power government.

 

[Fletch]

sure all fascists hate stalin

Probably. But so does anyone with half a brain. But please, defend his good works

 

[Casca XV]

There's no such thing as a leftist libertarian - it is a contradiction in terms.

A libertarian is an advocate of small, very limited government...

A leftist is someone who wants government - lots and lots of government - big government...

You could possibly be a libertarian and a federalist - and as a federalist advocate safety net programs on the state level. Unfortunately, such concessions to positive government come with the inevitable danger of government creep which leftists will exploit to the point where you will invariably find yourself living in an over-regulated society with bloated government.

Not to mention the leftists, as is their nature, will always be pushing for consolidation and centralization - which is where we are now in this God-forsaken country.

Anyone who fancies themselves a "Libertarian leftist" is not a libertarian.

Well said