Are mass shootings and higher gun deaths an acceptable part of a free society?

[SMTA]

Those who whine about gun ownership and pretend their whining is based on a desire to decrease the deaths of innocents, while ignoring far higher causes of deaths, such as preventable medical mistakes and drunk driving, are generally motivated by the politics of gun owners and the NRA, not a genuine desire to make society safer.

That, combined with the suggestions members of the BM make to "control this violence" are proof of the false motivations proffered by the anti gun movement

Exactly my point, but stated in a better way.

Anti morons want to regulate or eliminate what they don't like, but are stupidly blind about what THEY want to do.

It is quite self centered and childish.

 

[SMTA]

Why isn't the NRA offering guidance in adressing the mental health issue? If there is an obvious answer, they should lead the charge given their position.

The NRA are not medical professionals and have no business speaking about mental health other that making suggestions just like the rest of us.

 

[TurtleDude]

Why isn't the NRA offering guidance in adressing the mental health issue? If there is an obvious answer, they should lead the charge given their position.

uh Why? we all know that more gun control is being pushed. Most of us-especially those of us who actually understand the issue also know that the push for gun control is motivated by politics, not a desire to actually solve the problems.

I have constantly discussed why there is a major problem in disqualifying those with mental health issues from owning guns beyond the current status quo that requires an adjudication of mental incompetence. Its based on the fact that expanding the list of those disqualified based on findings short of an adjudication, would have a major chilling effect upon people seeking treatment, which could cause far more problems than it would solve

the attitude that a group that was forced into defending firearms owners' rights due to the dishonesty of the Democrat party, ought to have to come up with solutions to problems that it is not responsible for, is just plain silly because what we are really hearing is

"if the NRA doesn't come up with a solution to a problem that may not be amenable to additional solutions, the NRA will have to suffer more reductions of the rights of gun owners"

 

[TurtleDude]

The NRA are not medical professionals and have no business speaking about mental health other that making suggestions just like the rest of us.

just like CDC doctors are not criminologists or experts on law enforcement and have no business making suggestions how to keep criminals from committing crime

 

[TurtleDude]

Exactly my point, but stated in a better way.

Anti morons want to regulate or eliminate what they don't like, but are stupidly blind about what THEY want to do.

It is quite self centered and childish.

at the rank and file level you are absolutely correct. Maybe even at the mid level activist tier-such as the local organizer for the Million Moron march or "everytown hates gun ownership"

when you get to the congressional level of Bannerrhoid operations, its all about politics and attacking a group that has cost the Democrat party many an election over the last 49 years

 

[TheOne]

No. There has to be a way to stop them. How ever I simply refuse to take security over freedom

 

[TurtleDude]

No. There has to be a way to stop them. How ever I simply refuse to take security over freedom

especially security that doesn't make us safer but certainly causes us to be less free

 

[TheGoverness]

No. There has to be a way to stop them. How ever I simply refuse to take security over freedom

Welcome to The Forums, TheOne!

I wholeheartedly agree with you that I wouldn't sacrifice my freedoms for the sake of security.

 

[Casper]

I am afraid of guns like I am afraid of cars, trucks, planes, trains, deep water, crossing the street, choking on meat, fire, knives or anything else which represents danger. Anyone lacking a natural fear of inherently dangerous conditions has a screw loose somewhere. We take precautions when confronted with potential danger, or at least we should.

We actively search for cures to cancer, reducing drug addiction, drunk driving etc. I want the right to abort so that's not an issue.

When it come to the conditions which create gun related mayhem we can't even have the discussion and no possible solutions will be entertained. You guys seem content to leave things as they are as an acceptable consequence of your constitutional right.

I asked you for your solutions and you said you had none, but "want something done", whatever that means then here you say we cannot have a discussion on possible solutions, yet you have not forwarded any possible solutions, me thinks there is confusion on someone's part, yours. Want to discuss possible solutions then throw some out there and as I said we can discuss them, who knows maybe you will learn more on the topic and you might even come to some common ground with those that believe the solutions are far more complicated than guns and those that own them. So let's try again, what would YOU want to do?

 

[Casper]

Welcome to The Forums, TheOne!

I wholeheartedly agree with you that I wouldn't sacrifice my freedoms for the sake of security.

Correction, "False Sense of Security":2wave:

 

[TheGoverness]

especially security that doesn't make us safer but certainly causes us to be less free

Yep. Tbh, I'd rather there be a risk of a mass shooting occuring than living in a authoritarian police state.

 

[TheGoverness]

Correction, "False Sense of Security":2wave:

True that.

 

[Casper]

Why isn't the NRA offering guidance in adressing the mental health issue? If there is an obvious answer, they should lead the charge given their position.

Because they are the National Rifle Association not their expertise, where are the mental health organizations?

 

[Casper]

The NRA are not medical professionals and have no business speaking about mental health other that making suggestions just like the rest of us.

Darn ya beat me to it, Obvious Man.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yep. Tbh, I'd rather there be a risk of a mass shooting occuring than living in a authoritarian police state.

good point-number of people killed by mass shootings-rather low

number of people killed by authoritarian police states-100 million or so

 

[TheGoverness]

good point-number of people killed by mass shootings-rather low

number of people killed by authoritarian police states-100 million or so

Added to the fact that I'd probably have little to no freedom in a police state.

 

[SDET]

I know what I know and know what I don't know.

But does my lack of knowledge about firearms somehow bar me from making statements based on my perspective?

The First Amendment protects even uninformed opinions!

 

[SheWolf]

The NRA are not medical professionals and have no business speaking about mental health other that making suggestions just like the rest of us.

Of course not, but they tell Congress how to vote regarding gun legislation. They should do something in terms of getting legislation passed addressing the issue the constantly site as responsible for mass shootings.

 

[SheWolf]

uh Why? we all know that more gun control is being pushed. Most of us-especially those of us who actually understand the issue also know that the push for gun control is motivated by politics, not a desire to actually solve the problems.

I have constantly discussed why there is a major problem in disqualifying those with mental health issues from owning guns beyond the current status quo that requires an adjudication of mental incompetence. Its based on the fact that expanding the list of those disqualified based on findings short of an adjudication, would have a major chilling effect upon people seeking treatment, which could cause far more problems than it would solve

the attitude that a group that was forced into defending firearms owners' rights due to the dishonesty of the Democrat party, ought to have to come up with solutions to problems that it is not responsible for, is just plain silly because what we are really hearing is

"if the NRA doesn't come up with a solution to a problem that may not be amenable to additional solutions, the NRA will have to suffer more reductions of the rights of gun owners"

The NRA is a powerful lobby group that tells elected official how to vote, grades their voting history, and influences legislation. If the NRA wanted to influence legislation in terms of the mental health component, they could get something accomplished and grade politicians accordingly.

 

[TurtleDude]

Of course not, but they tell Congress how to vote regarding gun legislation. They should do something in terms of getting legislation passed addressing the issue the constantly site as responsible for mass shootings.

those laws are mainly state matters. such as beefing up the data base of those adjudicated mentally incompetent or those who have felony records or are fugitives from justice. there are no additional federal laws that are needed or that are constitutional in terms of further restrictions on firearms ownership

 

[SheWolf]

those laws are mainly state matters. such as beefing up the data base of those adjudicated mentally incompetent or those who have felony records or are fugitives from justice. there are no additional federal laws that are needed or that are constitutional in terms of further restrictions on firearms ownership

The NRA has involved themselves with state level legislation in the past.

 

[SMTA]

Of course not, but they tell Congress how to vote regarding gun legislation. They should do something in terms of getting legislation passed addressing the issue the constantly site as responsible for mass shootings.

They cannot address issues like mental illness because they are not health care professionals.

The fact that mental illness is connected to gun deaths is not relevant.

 

[TurtleDude]

The NRA has involved themselves with state level legislation in the past.

as well they should. Lots of states are infected with Bannnerrhoid assholes.

 

[truthatallcost]

Does anybody find it odd that American society has become more violent, while consistently moving to the left politically?

The US is a vastly more liberal country than it was in 1966, yet we deal with under funding for metal health issues, mass killings and terrorism now. Why is that?

 

[TurtleDude]

Does anybody find it odd that American society has become more violent, while consistently moving to the left politically?

The US is a vastly more liberal country than it was in 1966, yet we deal with under funding for metal health issues, mass killings and terrorism now. Why is that?

I don't know if that is exactly true. ON some issues-homosexual marriage etc yes, the country is more "liberal" but in 1966 the Democrats and the welfare-socialist Great Society program was in full force since the Dems held all branches of government.