Are mass shootings and higher gun deaths an acceptable part of a free society?

[Josie]

Are you freaking kidding me??? You're okay with a 13 year-old being able to buy a gun????

No. I don't think minors should be able to purchase firearms.

 

[Cephus]

To me, living in the real world is understanding that the amendment was added at a time where gun were not lethal like they are today.

No, that's a fantasy world. Guns were always lethal. That's the whole point of guns. You need to seek professional help, you don't have a grasp on reality.

 

[Middleground]

That absolutely is your argument. You are blaming the gun.

So you're blaming the people, which, in essence, makes you pro legislation for gun control. At least that is what common sense tells me.

 

[DA60]

Ask the victim's families.

 

[Middleground]

The M-16 is fully automatic --- many bullets with just one pull of the trigger.
The AR-15 is semi-automatic -- you have to pull the trigger for each bullet.

Both quite lethal.

Is there any way the AR-15 can be souped up to become fully automatic?

No, we didn't know what he was going to do. But we do know that from an early age he was obsessed with violence and his classmates said he was deeply disturbed. Kids like that are ticking time bombs and need psychiatric care.

Do you know how many kids are like that??? Many years ago, my mom misted holy water all over my brother's apartment because of his 'weird' roommate. He has not killed anyone (as far as I know), yet he seems like a perfect candidate for your institution. The basic problem with your argument is that we cannot get into people's minds. Being weird is not an automatic ticket to becoming a serial killer. You talk about clinging onto your guns because it's your right, yet you'd be okay with institutionalizing people who might be crazy. What about their rights, Josie?

 

[Middleground]

No, that's a fantasy world. Guns were always lethal. That's the whole point of guns. You need to seek professional help, you don't have a grasp on reality.

A musket does not equal an AR-15. I know **** about guns, yet it seems I am more aware that yourself.

 

[Middleground]

No. I don't think minors should be able to purchase firearms.

Yay. Now there's a good start.

 

[Josie]

Both quite lethal.

Is there any way the AR-15 can be souped up to become fully automatic?

All firearms are quite lethal.

Yes - illegally.

Do you know how many kids are like that??? Many years ago, my mom misted holy water all over my brother's apartment because of his 'weird' roommate. He has not killed anyone (as far as I know), yet he seems like a perfect candidate for your institution. The basic problem with your argument is that we cannot get into people's minds. Being weird is not an automatic ticket to becoming a serial killer. You talk about clinging onto your guns because it's your right, yet you'd be okay with institutionalizing people who might be crazy. What about their rights, Josie?

I'm a teacher - I've known many weird kids. I've been called weird myself. Again, it's not about just being weird or anti-social --- it's about showing signs of being deeply disturbed -- like Adam Lanza and Seung-Hui Cho.

If you DON'T believe in putting these people in institutions to protect them from themselves and others -- how would you have stopped Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook?

 

[Cephus]

A musket does not equal an AR-15. I know **** about guns, yet it seems I am more aware that yourself.

Are you saying that being shot by a musket won't kill you just as dead as being shot by an AR-15? Seriously? Actually, muskets are probably deadlier, shot for shot, than most modern firearms.

 

[TurtleDude]

Devices which would have prevented use of the guns by anyone but the lawful owner. The mother in this case who was also murdered by her son with her own gun.

LOL, don't know much about guns do you? if you are willing to kill someone to get their gun, you are in a position to get whatever they have to make the weapon run.

 

[ajn678]

A musket does not equal an AR-15. I know **** about guns, yet it seems I am more aware that yourself.

A change in technology does not mean the right is no longer valid.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't know. Maybe legislation on selling combat weapons to civilians?

Now let me ask you this, Josie. If the teachers were armed to the teeth, would the have prevented Sandy Hook???

what is a combat weapon? the 1911 my Grandfather carried in WWI-sure, that was a combat weapon. But its not any more deadly than plenty of pistols that have never been issued to any military and its far less lethal than the Shotgun I won the eastern Collegiate Championship with.

do you understand that most sporting firearms have a background as "combat" weapons. I realize calling something a "combat weapon" inflames the ire of the low wattage but to those of us who actually understand firearms, its an irrelevant term

If police officers are routinely issued certain types of firearms, that makes them "urban self defense firearms" to me meaning other civilians ought to be able to buy and keep such firearms in their homes

 

[TurtleDude]

From USA Today:



The weapon that binds Sandy Hook and San Bernardino: Sandy Hook families



So you don't believe teachers should be armed? I would have thought otherwise.

And yeah, every 'weird' person should be tossed away in an asylum. Can you imagine???

you are confusing the prototype designed by Eugene Stoner with the commercial civilian rifle called the AR-15. SEMIAUTOMATIC ONLY AR 15s have never been adopted by the US military

again, if you are going to start arguing "facts" with Josie or me, you best really understand what you are talking about because she surely does and I most certainly do as well.

 

[TurtleDude]

If that's how you feel, then maybe you should write to the NRA and tell them to stop blocking laws that prevent the mentally from buying guns.

you need to stop the lies The NRA is against people losing their rights without due process. Like schemes by the Democrats to ban every vet who has ever reported having some PTSD from owning a firearm.

 

[TurtleDude]

It's already against the law, Moot.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”

The BM wants to ban anyone who has been DIAGNOSED with any mental "disease" My wife was depressed watching her mother slowly die from brain cancer. Our family doctor gave her a 1 week course of anti-depressants. Moot would claim that should have banned my wife from ever owning a gun. Friends of mine came back from the sandbox. One had mild PTSD from watching three men under his command buy the farm when a suicide bomber blew up a check point. Moot wants him stripped of his right to KBA

 

[TurtleDude]

What is the difference between the two weapons?



Hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew that he was going to blow away school children, let alone the guys who did the Columbine shooting. Throwing people into asylums is not an easy answer, and when you think about it, an impossibility.

lets see

a selector switch that allows the M16 to function as an "assault rifle"

the fact that you cannot buy an M16 made after May 19, 1986 and ones made before that cost about 20,000 dollars and require a 12 month (average) wait and the discretionary permission of your local law enforcement chief to own in the states that actually allow it.

An AR 15 is no different in function that the 2 million MI carbines the US government has sold to US civilians through the Department of civilian Marksmanship starting around the time of the Korean war. In fact the AR 15 is similar to at least two dozen other rifles that have been owned by American Civilians for years. and all the rifles combined-including the millions upon millions semi automatic magazine fed 22 caliber rimfire rifles, are used in less illegal homicides each year than deaths caused by beatings

knifings

or clubbings

 

[TurtleDude]

Ask the victim's families.

that's stupid. ask the families of the children who were burned to death in Carrolton Ky when a drunk driver slammed into their school bus igniting it in 1989 or so if drinking should be legal . Should the families of white women murdered by black men determine the civil rights of blacks? should the parents of children diddled by molesters masquerading as Catholic Priest have the say about whether the RC church gets tax relief as a non-profit?

 

[Moot]

you need to stop the lies The NRA is against people losing their rights without due process. Like schemes by the Democrats to ban every vet who has ever reported having some PTSD from owning a firearm.

You need to stop drinking the NRA kool-aide. The NRA is about profiting off the blood of Americans. Like the way their profits sky rocket after every mass killing.

 

[Tigerace117]

You need to stop drinking the NRA kool-aide. The NRA is about profiting off the blood of Americans. Like the way their profits sky rocket after every mass killing.

Uh....no. It's an advocacy group like any other advocacy group.

 

[TurtleDude]

You need to stop drinking the NRA kool-aide. The NRA is about profiting off the blood of Americans. Like the way their profits sky rocket after every mass killing.

your pathological hatred of the NRA suggests to me you shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun. The NRA does not profit from gun sales unless gun makers decide to give the NRA donations. and the Gun makers sell lots of guns after massacres because the insane rantings of Bannerrrhoids who scream for gun bans. Guess what-if the BM didn't demand gun bans in a pathologically pavlovian response to shootings that involve people other than inner city blacks, then gun makers would not see spikes in sales. But its People LIKE YOU THAT SELL GUNS



so your stupid attacks on the NRA are just that-stupid. YOU SELL GUNS, not the NRA

 

[TurtleDude]

Uh....no. It's an advocacy group like any other advocacy group.

she hates the NRA because they often keep leftwingers out of office.

 

[SCitizen]

I just learned that guns are used in 30,000 murders and suicides per year in USA. I hope they are banned.

 

[Josie]

I just learned that guns are used in 30,000 murders and suicides per year in USA. I hope they are banned.

You want tobacco and guns banned... and you're a conservative? I think you're confused.

 

[SCitizen]

You want tobacco and guns banned... and you're a conservative? I think you're confused.

In many ways Liberals have taken some Conservative ideas, and Conservatives have taken Liberal ideas.

 

[TurtleDude]

I just learned that guns are used in 30,000 murders and suicides per year in USA. I hope they are banned.

If you just learned of that, your opinion is so suspect I cannot get beyond the laugh stage. and I see you no longer list your lean as conservative. Should it be "confused"? :mrgreen: