Are Democrats Dumb Enough to Actually Vote For Impeachment

[Ikari]

When did demanding Democrats provide a single witness that can testify to something other than their presumptions become partisan brand protection mode?
Sounds more like a convenient excuse for not being able to provide such.

They can't, Trump's WH is obstructing. They offered Trump and his lawyers to come and testify, they refused. Trump barred people from testifying. They won't release the subpoenaed papers either. Trump has done everything he can to hide everything from the inquiry.

You're asking the Catch 22. "Oh there's no one that has 'first hand knowledge' ", but anyone who could produce such testimony has been barred from testifying.

lol

The obstruction defense.

And the Republicans in Brand-Protection mode are using that for their deflections.

Some people just care more about protecting their party than they do the Republic.

 

[Deuce]

If you don't have the evidence, and all you have is witnesses who testify to what they presume happened, and you refuse to allow Republican witnesses, and you refuse to allow representation for the accused, and you still move forward with an Impeachment, its on you.

Trump or any other president are not going to play games with Impeachment. Schiff wants to have it his way or no way. It doesn't work that way. When you hold Schiff accountable for his partisan actions in this process, then you can start to hold everyone else accountable.

You're going to whine about refusing to allow witnesses when Trump is literally doing that?

Can you imagine how criminal trials would work if the defendant had unilateral authority to suppress testimony?

 

[Condor060]

You're going to whine about refusing to allow witnesses when Trump is literally doing that?

Can you imagine how criminal trials would work if the defendant had unilateral authority to suppress testimony?

Even criminals get to provide their own witnesses and have representation cross examine. Funny you should mention that.

So you want to have it your way, not allow the same due process you would provide any defendant, then call Trump out when he doesn't participate?

Just a bit hypocritical, aren't you?

 

[Condor060]

They can't, Trump's WH is obstructing. They offered Trump and his lawyers to come and testify, they refused.

Oh, how gracious of you. Feel free to come and testify but you can't call your own witnesses or have your own representation cross examine? Thats your idea of a fair hand?

Trump barred people from testifying. They won't release the subpoenaed papers either. Trump has done everything he can to hide everything from the inquiry.

Trump has refused to be a part of a partisan one sided witch hunt. Don't even begin to explain how if you were accused of a crime but the court said you can't have your representation cross examine and you can't provide your own witnesses for your own defense, but you are free to come on down and be examined by the prosecutor that you would even think of doing that.

When you would do that to yourself then you can speak of obstruction.

 

[Ikari]

Oh, how gracious of you. Feel free to come and testify but you can't call your own witnesses or have your own representation cross examine? Thats your idea of a fair hand?



Trump has refused to be a part of a partisan one sided witch hunt. Don't even begin to explain how if you were accused of a crime but the court said you can't have your representation cross examine and you can't provide your own witnesses for your own defense, but you are free to come on down and be examined by the prosecutor that you would even think of doing that.

When you would do that to yourself then you can speak of obstruction.

The Republicans on the committee couldn't ask questions? Seems to me that they've been asking questions all the time.

lol

It's not quite a witch hunt. We've had plenty of testimony that shows the story. Trump drove the bus, he used Giuliani behind the scenes to get his demands out to Ukraine and bypass the State Department, Funds were withheld, and now they play the obstruction game.

Testimony after testimony confirms this. It's enough to validate the inquiry and demand cooperation with the investigation.

The trial, BTW, is in the Senate, in case you didn't know how impeachment works. Your lawyer doesn't get to cross examine the cops when they are in middle of their investigation, that happens at the trial. So your deflection is moot.

One of the articles of impeachment Nixon faced was obstruction for not complying with Congressional subpoena, and Trump has obstructed more than Nixon.

I know you Party-Before-Republic folk like to make excuses, but there's every call for an impeachment inquiry and a need to get to the bottom of this.

 

[jnug]

What the question in the thread title does is points out the dif between what remains of the Republican Party and Republicanism and the Dem Party.

There is really no political gain to be had for the Dems in this and they are smart enough to know that. So once you take political gain off the table, all you have left is that they are doing it for the good of the country with very little upside for them politically. That is tantamount to saying there is lots of political downside. Yet they are doing it anyway.

Don't ever expect a Repug to put the country above even an incremental amount of political gain. It will never happen. Hold your breath waiting for it to happen and you will expire first.

And lets not here from the "there is no wrong doing by the Trump gang in this Ukraine mess". That position is beyond laughable at this point.

In addition, as I have posted several times in several threads, don't expect DonDon's wrong doing to stop either. He will not stop himself. He is incapable of stopping himself. Unfortunately, that is only one of his malignant pathologies.

 

[Rexedgar]

The Republicans on the committee couldn't ask questions? Seems to me that they've been asking questions all the time.

lol

It's not quite a witch hunt. We've had plenty of testimony that shows the story. Trump drove the bus, he used Giuliani behind the scenes to get his demands out to Ukraine and bypass the State Department, Funds were withheld, and now they play the obstruction game.

Testimony after testimony confirms this. It's enough to validate the inquiry and demand cooperation with the investigation.

The trial, BTW, is in the Senate, in case you didn't know how impeachment works. Your lawyer doesn't get to cross examine the cops when they are in middle of their investigation, that happens at the trial. So your deflection is moot.

One of the articles of impeachment Nixon faced was obstruction for not complying with Congressional subpoena, and Trump has obstructed more than Nixon.

I know you Party-Before-Republic folk like to make excuses, but there's every call for an impeachment inquiry and a need to get to the bottom of this.

^^^^^^^^^School them!

 

[Condor060]

The Republicans on the committee couldn't ask questions? Seems to me that they've been asking questions all the time.

lol

It's not quite a witch hunt. We've had plenty of testimony that shows the story. Trump drove the bus, he used Giuliani behind the scenes to get his demands out to Ukraine and bypass the State Department, Funds were withheld, and now they play the obstruction game.

Testimony after testimony confirms this. It's enough to validate the inquiry and demand cooperation with the investigation.

The trial, BTW, is in the Senate, in case you didn't know how impeachment works. Your lawyer doesn't get to cross examine the cops when they are in middle of their investigation, that happens at the trial. So your deflection is moot.

One of the articles of impeachment Nixon faced was obstruction for not complying with Congressional subpoena, and Trump has obstructed more than Nixon.

I know you Party-Before-Republic folk like to make excuses, but there's every call for an impeachment inquiry and a need to get to the bottom of this.

Again with talk around gibberish. So let me clear a few points up for you.

Your feeling don't count
The feelings of the witnesses don't count
The feelings of the Democrats don't count

You haven't provided a single witness that has testified to anything but their feelings yet you think these feelings = evidence.

Best of luck on that.

 

[gdgyva]

Their strategy is simple: if the dems actually impeach, Trump will be compelled to testify - he can't wiggle out of it.

Eventually, Trump will lie about something or other, and they can nab him on a Perjury charge - just like the republicans did with Bill Clinton.

This shows how truly desperate they are.

where do you get that from?

Trump will NEVER testify in this hearings...NEVER

 

[j brown's body]

Censure of the President would of been a better option and probably of gotten more bipartisan support. If the House does impeach the senate could easily prolong their process into primary season. This would put Warren and Sanders at a real disadvantage. While they’re sitting in the Senate hearing testimony Biden will be the sole front runner on the campaign trail. The conspiracy theorist in me says that was the Democratic establishment plan the whole time to tilt the primaries in Biden’s favor.

Watch Trump get Biden elected president lol!

 

[gdgyva]

They tried to provide eye-witnesses. Trump won't let them testify.

Trump says he wants to have them testify at a Senate trial.

If they can exonerate him, why not save the country all this impeachment bull and nip this in the inquiry stage? Or is Trump holding out for political purposes?

Nancy did this for political purposes

So yeah...damn right that could be

 

[j brown's body]

What the question in the thread title does is points out the dif between what remains of the Republican Party and Republicanism and the Dem Party.

There is really no political gain to be had for the Dems in this and they are smart enough to know that. So once you take political gain off the table, all you have left is that they are doing it for the good of the country with very little upside for them politically. That is tantamount to saying there is lots of political downside. Yet they are doing it anyway.

Don't ever expect a Repug to put the country above even an incremental amount of political gain. It will never happen. Hold your breath waiting for it to happen and you will expire first.

And lets not here from the "there is no wrong doing by the Trump gang in this Ukraine mess". That position is beyond laughable at this point.

In addition, as I have posted several times in several threads, don't expect DonDon's wrong doing to stop either. He will not stop himself. He is incapable of stopping himself. Unfortunately, that is only one of his malignant pathologies.

As Pelosi said, they have no choice. The dude is now not just inviting, but coercing a foreign nation to corrupt our democratic process at the expense of our national security. Let him off here and hell just get worse, and he still could get quite a bit worse. But it's the only tool they have.

 

[less right]

If you don't have the evidence, and all you have is witnesses who testify to what they presume happened, and you refuse to allow Republican witnesses, and you refuse to allow representation for the accused, and you still move forward with an Impeachment, its on you.

Trump or any other president are not going to play games with Impeachment. Schiff wants to have it his way or no way. It doesn't work that way. When you hold Schiff accountable for his partisan actions in this process, then you can start to hold everyone else accountable.

This may come as a surprise but there were no secret basement meetings that locked Republicans out of the process.

 

[less right]

Nancy did this for political purposes

So yeah...damn right that could be

I believe it.

It's the same thing he did asking Zelensky to investigate Biden. Political purposes, not Ukraine corruption concerns.

 

[Ikari]

Again with talk around gibberish. So let me clear a few points up for you.

Your feeling don't count
The feelings of the witnesses don't count
The feelings of the Democrats don't count

You haven't provided a single witness that has testified to anything but their feelings yet you think these feelings = evidence.

Best of luck on that.

Trump is obstructing and preventing people with better knowledge and papers from being released.

I know, the dishonest Catch 22 is what the Party-Before-Republic GOP-Partisans rely on as a corner stone of their Trump deflections.

What we do have is countless testimony that is consistent and shows the game Trump was playing using personal lawyers to subvert the State Department and make demands of foreign government to start a politically motivated investigation into a political rival. It's rather serious allegations and have been stated time and time again.

Anyone who had any respect and loyalty to the Republic would want to get to the bottom of it and would defend the obstruction the WH is currently engaged in.

 

[Ikari]

where do you get that from?

Trump will NEVER testify in this hearings...NEVER

It wouldn't be a smart move for him, he has quite a bit to hide it seems.

 

[gdgyva]

It wouldn't be a smart move for him, he has quite a bit to hide it seems.

he is NEVER going to take the chance on giving the democrats or anyone else the opportunity to catch him in a process error

perjury is serious...he knows it

hence he will NEVER TESTIFY...no matter how much he is goaded by the democrats to do so

 

[SCrider]

he is NEVER going to take the chance on giving the democrats or anyone else the opportunity to catch him in a process error

perjury is serious...he knows it

hence he will NEVER TESTIFY...no matter how much he is goaded by the democrats to do so

It would be easy not to perjure yourself by not lying about every ****ing thing like trump does.

 

[Ikari]

he is NEVER going to take the chance on giving the democrats or anyone else the opportunity to catch him in a process error

perjury is serious...he knows it

hence he will NEVER TESTIFY...no matter how much he is goaded by the democrats to do so

Perjury is likely the least of his worries if he or Giuliani had to take the stand.

 

[jnug]

They tried to provide eye-witnesses. Trump won't let them testify.

Trump says he wants to have them testify at a Senate trial.

If they can exonerate him, why not save the country all this impeachment bull and nip this in the inquiry stage? Or is Trump holding out for political purposes?

Trump does not want them to testify anywhere. Once giving testimony its not like they will only take questions from one side of the aisle.

We have been here before. Trump does not want them to testify. This is simply Trump LYING as usual, blustering like he has a case to make. He is keeping the base drooling. What else is new.

 

[SCrider]

Perjury is likely the least of his worries if he or Giuliani had to take the stand.

Either one of them seems like they would be pretty easy to get them the incriminate themselves on the stand. No "perjury trap" required.

 

[jnug]

If you don't have the evidence, and all you have is witnesses who testify to what they presume happened, and you refuse to allow Republican witnesses, and you refuse to allow representation for the accused, and you still move forward with an Impeachment, its on you.

Trump or any other president are not going to play games with Impeachment. Schiff wants to have it his way or no way. It doesn't work that way. When you hold Schiff accountable for his partisan actions in this process, then you can start to hold everyone else accountable.

The hearings have been run by the rules of the House. Trump is unresponsive to lawful subpoenas and claiming blanket Executive Privilege in the process. Blanket Executive Privilege does not exist and lawful subpoenas are lawful subpoenas. It DOES work that way and "holding Schiff accountable" is simply a straw man argument. Has nothing to do with anything. Just more blather and gibberish.

 

[Deuce]

Even criminals get to provide their own witnesses and have representation cross examine. Funny you should mention that.

So you want to have it your way, not allow the same due process you would provide any defendant, then call Trump out when he doesn't participate?

Just a bit hypocritical, aren't you?

Criminals get to provide their own witnesses at trial, yes. This isn't a trial yet.

What criminals don't get to do is block the police from interviewing direct witnesses. Agree?

 

[jaeger19]

Their strategy is simple: if the dems actually impeach, Trump will be compelled to testify - he can't wiggle out of it.

Eventually, Trump will lie about something or other, and they can nab him on a Perjury charge - just like the republicans did with Bill Clinton.

This shows how truly desperate they are.

Just so you know.. that's not what happened with Bill Clinton.

 

[Condor060]

The hearings have been run by the rules of the House.

You mean the House rules that were voted on by Democrats in the House on how this Impeachment would be run. Yes, thats exactly what they did

Trump is unresponsive to lawful subpoenas and claiming blanket Executive Privilege in the process. Blanket Executive Privilege does not exist and lawful subpoenas are lawful subpoenas. It DOES work that way and "holding Schiff accountable" is simply a straw man argument. Has nothing to do with anything. Just more blather and gibberish.

Sorry, you don't get to make demands while you are denying witnesses to testify, refusing to allow the accused representation, and refusing to allow cross examination by the accused representation.

But we could go by Obama's Office of Legal Counsel in 2014 who stated:

"The Executive Branch's longstanding position, reaffirmed by numerous Administrations of both political parties, is that the President's immediate advisers are absolutely immune from the congressional testimonial process. "This immunity is rooted in the constitutional separation of powers, and in the immunity of the President himself from congressional compulsion to testify."

Whoops, I guess you didn't remember that, did you. lol