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I'm not sure what your point is.
Are you saying that there are other weapons which are suitable for killing lots of people? If so, you're right, but that's irrelevant to the question of whether a pistol grip can make a rifle more dangerous.
Fair enough (regarding mag releases)
Stabilize = keep steady and on target.
Many professionals disagree about the accuracy. Anything that makes you more comfortable, and gives you a better grip, is going to contribute to accuracy. And whether a snipers rifle has them or not says nothing about whether or not they help with accuracy on a weapon that is not a snipers' rifle.
And pistol grips most certainly can make it easier to file a rifle one handed.
Fair enough (regarding mag releases)
Stabilize = keep steady and on target.
Many professionals disagree about the accuracy. Anything that makes you more comfortable, and gives you a better grip, is going to contribute to accuracy. And whether a snipers rifle has them or not says nothing about whether or not they help with accuracy on a weapon that is not a snipers' rifle.
And pistol grips most certainly can make it easier to file a rifle one handed.
If the question is are semi/fully automatic rifles more dangerous then semi-automatic handguns?
Then I say clearly they are.
Assuming they are firing similar sized ammunition with similar muzzle velocities then obviously a weapon that can fire several times more bullets per minute then another weapon will be (usually) more dangerous to those it is aimed at.
As for adding in that the latter is less likely to be used then the latter and thus makes it more formidable to me is somewhat irrelevant.
It has been shown time and again that with enough planning, sneaking a semi-automatic rifle into almost any situation is possible.
The bottom line for me is this - would any of those children/teachers killed in Newtown still be alive if the shooter only had handguns?
The 31 killings a few years ago at Virginia Tech when the shooter was armed only with two semi-automatic handguns suggests they probably would not be.
The solution to what happened in Newtown is simple - arm the teachers/principals. Make it mandatory that a certain percentage of the staff must carry concealed handguns to receive federal/state funding. They armed the cockpits of airliners - why not schools?
There is almost no chance that some psycho would go on a killing spree in a school if he knows that several of the teachers will be 'packing'.
Yep. That is what I am saying. Note the topic of this thread: AW vs. pistol for "dangerousness". You are asserting that "AW" features are better than other rifles w/o those features, which may be true, but the OP is comparing AWs and pistols, as I am.
assault weapon meaning of class of rifle.
A pistol grip doesnt really do much to stabilize a weapon. What really helps stabilize a weapon is the spring behind the bolt that keeps the recoil down. Or in some weapons the bolt is designed to move downward in order to keep the recoil down. Both of those two things are way more important to the stability of a weapon then a pistol grip which does very little and some would argue that it doesnt do help at all.
The reason I mentioned snipers rifles is because they manage to be extremely accurate without a pistol grip which shows that a pistol grip is not necessary to make an accurate gun. And the AK47 is a much more inaccurate gun then a M14 and the AK has a pistol grip while the M14 doesnt. And what about the part of my post where I said that accuracy doesnt really matter in a mass shooting because they occur at very close ranges where even an inaccurate can be very effective?
Can you prove that a pistol grip makes a weapon easier to fire one handed or is that just your opinion? It is just as easy to grip a weapon without a pistol grip as it is to grip a weapon with one.
You have no concept of long arms then.
The only factor in terms of grip that matters for accuracy is if you can keep it tight and get cheek weld. Staying on target is about consistency and doing the same thing every time.
But a pistol grip is not for shooting 1 handed. That is stupid. It is about ergonomics and comfort. Shooting 1 handed with a rifle has no realistic value....unless you are Rambo. It works great of you are Rambo.
Thats not actually true. A fully automatic weapon is very hard to control and you wont get very many hits on target with one while a semiautomatic weapon is very easy to control and you can get several hits on target.
True, which is why fully auto is not as widely found in military issued firearms as it used to be
You really need to quit while you're only behind your own ass...
I'd prefer to hear your explanation of how burst mode is a form of fully automatic fire. :lamo
And pistol grips improve ones ability to "keep it tight". That's their primary function.
And I never said that the pistol "is for shooting one handed". I said it makes one-handed shooting easier.
And i'vr already posted a link which shows that one handed shooting can be of value in some situations.
When did I post that?
Being that pistols are far more likely to be used in crime
Never
That's the point
The fact that the spring or bolt does more to stabilize a weapon does not mean that other features can not and do not also help stabilize the weapon.
The fact that a pistol grip is not needed to make a weapon accurate does not mean that a pistol grip can not and does not improve accuracy
And as far as mass shootings goes, not every shot is done at very close ranges, and even when it is, having the pistol grip helps in a situation (one handed shooting) accuracy is compromised.
As far as pistol grips providing a better grip on the weapon, that is their primary function. Its obvious that providing a better grip makes it easier to grip the weapon in both one handed and two handed positions.
There is no straight answer to your question for the simple fact that it all depends on the situation and environment.
True, which is why fully auto is not as widely found in military issued firearms as it used to be
Right I never said that other features cannot be used to stabilize a weapon. My main point with that is that if a gun manufacturer wanted to make a weapon that is more stable without a pistol grip they can find a way by being creative. However I dont think that a pistol grip improves the stability of a weapon in a noticeable way.
A pistol grip does not make a weapon more accurate. Lets take the SKS and the AK 47 for example. They are basically the same weapon except the SKS doesnt have a pistol grip while the AK 47 does. The SKS has a max effective range of 400-430 yards while the max effective range for an AK 47 is about 400-430 yards.
Yes every shot is not done at extremely close ranges in a mass shooting. I would say at the most a mass shooter may need to shoot about 100 yards (although unlikely). The SKS that I talked about earlier easily can shoot that distance accurately.
A pistol grips primary function is comfort. There is no reason why a rifle with a pistol grip would be easier to grip then a rifle without a pistol grip.
there actually is. it really all depends on the person. since people commit crimes not guns, it doesn't matter.
There is no straight answer to your question for the simple fact that it all depends on the situation and environment.
1: People would be included in the "situation" section of my post.
2: The OP was not so much about crimes as it was about which type of gun would do the most damage. At least that is how I took it. :shrug: I may be wrong. But either way my post would stand.
I think that reasonable people can disagree as to the extent that pistol grips provide a better grip, and therefore help stabilize the weapon. Howver, it's not reasonable to say it provides no better grip.
The fact that there may be better ways to provide a better grip, or stabilize a weapon, does nothing to change the fact that the pistol grip does provide a better grip, and therefore help stabilize the weapon
Providing a better grip, stabilizing the weapon, and yes, even comfort, can all contribute to the accuracy of the shooter. Therefore, the pistol grip does make a rifle more dangerous
Reasonable people can disagree over just how much more danger a pistol grip contributes, but an honest and reasonable person, once presented with the facts, cannot deny that the pistol grip adds to the dangerousness of a rifle.
re: AK SKS comparison - max eff range is not the only measure of effectiveness
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