Approaching situations while armed

MaggieD · Jul 17, 2013

Jerry said:
If Chicago alone had 500 homicides while my whole state just had 15 homicides, then I don't see why you disagree with me.

Also, it's important to note the difference between homicide and murder, because the whole point of carrying a gun is so that you can commit homicide when you are justified. We want a certain level of "gun violence" because we want rapists shot and killed. We want a certain level of "gun violence" because we want home intruders shot and killed. We want "weapons of war" to be "on the street" so that a normal person can arm themselves how they see fit wherever they go.

Observer92 is right. Population density puts a whole different spin on gun ownership, in my opinion.

You probably don't have much road rage in South Dakota. I've seen fist fights erupt over some imagined slight...I've been chased down the road and bumped into for accelerating around a car...I've seen people chase people down the highway for what? Nothing. See people double flipping people off at stoplights. Jumping out of cars to tell the guy behind them to **** off. People in big cities have had it "up to here."

Making it ridiculously easy for everybody and their uncle to carry a firearm in such circumstances makes no sense to me. Now maybe you believe in gene pool reduction and saving the courts money. I don't.

Illinois' CCW permit comes with a requirement for 18 hours of instruction (I think it's 18) and a background check. It's good for two years. I have absolutely no problem with that at all.

Jerry · Jul 17, 2013

MaggieD said:
Observer92 is right. Population density puts a whole different spin on gun ownership, in my opinion.

Again, old news, one of my pre-written responses begins with a 6min video detailing how population plays a part. It seems the threshold is at a population density of 250,000+, with no other thresholds under or over 250,000.

So, yes, I know all about how population plays a part, and with that knowledge in mind I'm advocating Constitutional Carry with nearly no gun-free zones in said densely populated areas.

MaggieD said:
You probably don't have much road rage in South Dakota. I've seen fist fights erupt over some imagined slight...I've been chased down the road and bumped into for accelerating around a car...I've seen people chase people down the highway for what? Nothing. See people double flipping people off at stoplights. Jumping out of cars to tell the guy behind them to **** off. People in big cities have had it "up to here."

We begin with familiarity with driving laws when you get a license. People know the law and should choose to comply, or not drive and take public transit. If they choose to drive, and then choose to assault someone within their car, that person should be shot and killed by a legal gun carrier from within that car. This is how you lower crime.

MaggieD said:
Making it ridiculously easy for everybody and their uncle to carry a firearm in such circumstances makes no sense to me. Now maybe you believe in gene pool reduction and saving the courts money. I don't.

I'm not terribly concerned with saving the State money. No state in the Union is known for it's reputation for handling money responsibly.

I want that road rager to think twice and understand that assaulting you could result in their death.

MaggieD said:
Illinois' CCW permit comes with a requirement for 18 hours of instruction (I think it's 18) and a background check. It's good for two years. I have absolutely no problem with that at all.

Turns out the non-resident permit will only be issued to people residing in states which have similar requirements for their own permit. No opportunity for non-residents to meet IL criteria simply for the sake of having an IL non-resident CCW. As a resident of SD I will not be able to get a non-resident IL permit. Also, IL has elected not to participate in reciprocity at all. If you do not have an IL permit of either kind, you cannot carry in IL at all.

MaggieD · Jul 17, 2013

Jerry said:
Turns out the non-resident permit will only be issued to people residing in states which have similar requirements for their own permit. No opportunity for non-residents to meet IL criteria simply for the sake of having an IL non-resident CCW.

That's really too bad because I think states should be reciprocal. Makes it a pain to travel.

blaxshep · Jul 17, 2013

MaggieD said:
I completely disagree with you. But I live in the big city, and you live in South Dakota. Your state had 15 homicides last year. Just the City of Chicago had 500.

500 in the land of the most unconstitutional gun control anywhere? How can that be?

MaggieD · Jul 17, 2013

blaxshep said:
500 in the land of the most unconstitutional gun control anywhere? How can that be?

Maggie's a soprano in that choir you're singin' to, Blaxshep.

VanceMack · Jul 17, 2013

I carry lethal and non-lethal defensive means. I also learned a trick from Massad Ayoob that I practice routinely. In my front pocket I carry a 20 bill wrapped around an old plastic collapsable glasses case (used to cary it wrapped around a match box). I havent had to employ the technique because i have a lot of things going for me. Im smart...I dont put myself in dangerous situations. Im cognizant of my surroundings and I dont 'look' like a victim. Im tall and pretty good sized (6'1", 249-251 depending on if it is donut day at the office or not) and I carry myself well. I still carry armed, I practice scenarios, I shoot regularly and I believe in avoiding trouble if at all possible. Best way to approach a 'situation' is to not put yourself into one.

windowdressing · Jul 17, 2013

Lutherf said:
In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.

I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?

Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?

I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.

That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.

By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.

At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.

Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.

I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?

you handled this well ... I don't carry, and one of my problems with carrying is that the gun is there and someone, including yourself, could be shot unnecessarily ... also, having the gun, gives you more power and you may be bolder than you need to be or should be ... my guess is that Zimmerman would have behaved differently had he not had a gun ... he probably would've just called it in and not gotten out of his vehicle ... but, I know others would say, I'd rather have a gun just in case ...

anyway, good question, good issue ... hopefully other have or will respond thoughtfully ...

AlabamaPaul · Jul 17, 2013

windowdressing said:
you handled this well ... I don't carry, and one of my problems with carrying is that the gun is there and someone, including yourself, could be shot unnecessarily ... also, having the gun, gives you more power and you may be bolder than you need to be or should be ... my guess is that Zimmerman would have behaved differently had he not had a gun ... he probably would've just called it in and not gotten out of his vehicle ... but, I know others would say, I'd rather have a gun just in case ...

anyway, good question, good issue ... hopefully other have or will respond thoughtfully ...

IMV and given his past tendencies to call police, he would have acted the same, as he never drew his gun until it was necessary. Good afternoon bj...

Morrigi · Jul 17, 2013

Don't go lookin' for trouble and trouble won't come to you...

That said, I believe it is a citizen's duty to help those in need to the best of one's ability and within reason.

Goshin · Jul 17, 2013

Lutherf said:
In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.

I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?

Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?

I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.

That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.

By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.

At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.

Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.

I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?

Excellent thread topic Luther, thank you.

It's hard to give a "short version" on this. My behaviors regarding possible-threat situations have "evolved" over time, based on many things including experience and occupation.

I used be in law enforcement, so then and for some time afterward I had a tendency to "charge towards the sound of gunfire(or other trouble)."

Well that was around 16 years ago now, and some of my reflexes have had to be modified. As an armed private citizen, it isn't my job anymore to go poking my nose into every problem I encounter... indeed, it generally isn't appreciated by local law enforcement very much either.

It also isn't very prudent. There's also the question of making SURE you intervene, if you intervene, on the Side Of Right.... and that can be mighty darn tricky sometimes. If you come in to a situation in the middle, you don't know what happened up to that point. For instance, you hear yells and screams, and run around a corner, and see a man punch a woman... but what you didn't know is that she had just attempted to stab him with a knife, and he was defending himself from an attack with a weapon. Oops....

You could end up on the Side Of Wrong if you aren't careful.

Not to mention, in a lot of bad situations you may witness, there may BE no Side Of Rightousness at all. As often as not it is quarrel between two Thugs or Thugettes and you'd do well to leave them to their amusements and the consequences of their own choices.

So anyway... these days I approach potential-threat situations with great care... if I approach them at all. As I tell my Self-Protection students (armed or unarmed class) "If you see trouble OVER THERE.... don't go there! Go the other way!"

Now if someone you KNOW is in trouble, let alone a loved one, that's different. If you're threated and unable to avoid/evade/defuse (or not given an opportunity), then you do what you have to do.

But I tend to err on the side of caution, mostly, these days. One exception is in and around my home; I will not tolerate any crap there, and can be relatively aggressive in rooting out any intruders.

Goshin · Jul 17, 2013

Aunt Spiker said:
It's my theory - formed after years of reading similar stories to the OP online about guns and situations - that people who are armed have a sense of security in which they imagine they can handle whatever tense situation might pop up - and it's even their duty - to investigate matters. (Perhaps they naturally have this sense and thus they're more likely to own firearms, though)

Without being armed - individuals are much less likely to do so out of fear for their safety.

Unarmed individuals are much more sensible in that they will not poke a hornets nest, so to speak.

If someone's going to carry a firearm they should still realize that they're not suddenly *the* law or *the* only one capable of handling situations that come up. They shouldn't let it go to their head and become cocky and full of nothing but testosterone and ego. . . because that seems to be what happens = guns tend to give people a sense of empowerment, and only the good ones don't abuse it.

Having interacted with 100's of CCWers, I'd have to say Auntie that that has NOT been my experience. Granted, you'll have a few --- mostly young or inexperienced males --- who have a bit of an ego issue with carrying, but most people who CCW already KNOW that they do NOT want to pull that trigger if they can avoid it. Personally I think CCW is as likely to make someone MORE cautious as it is to make them more reckless. Depends on the personality and character of the individual.

windowdressing · Jul 17, 2013

AlabamaPaul said:
IMV and given his past tendencies to call police, he would have acted the same, as he never drew his gun until it was necessary. Good afternoon bj...

I wonder how he behaved when he didn't have a gun, if there ever was a time he didn't have one ... we don't know what happned, and probably never will, but we're probably going to differ on what we think probably happened ... I think it's time to move on to the next controversial case ... no doubt it's just around the corner ...

AlabamaPaul · Jul 17, 2013

windowdressing said:
I wonder how he behaved when he didn't have a gun, if there ever was a time he didn't have one ... we don't know what happned, and probably never will, but we're probably going to differ on what we think probably happened ... I think it's time to move on to the next controversial case ... no doubt it's just around the corner ...

Yes, we could discuss Eric Holder's recent activities... :mrgreen:

Bonzai · Jul 17, 2013

AlabamaPaul said:
Yes, we could discuss Eric Holder's recent activities... :mrgreen:

Can you enlighten me on the following question ? Whay exactly does that face icon mean ?......................

windowdressing · Jul 17, 2013

AlabamaPaul said:
Yes, we could discuss Eric Holder's recent activities... :mrgreen:

boy, did I leave myself open to that ... :slapme:

AlabamaPaul · Jul 17, 2013

Bonzai said:
Can you enlighten me on the following question ? Whay exactly does that face icon mean ?......................

It's like a **** eating grin IMV. Good evening bonz...

windowdressing · Jul 17, 2013

Bonzai said:
Can you enlighten me on the following question ? Whay exactly does that face icon mean ?......................

:mrgreen: this one? it says mrgreen ... beats me ... green with envy? maybe Paul was trying to tell you that he is green with envy not having your intelligence and wit ... Make sense?

Bonzai · Jul 17, 2013

AlabamaPaul said:
It's like a **** eating grin IMV. Good evening bonz...

Hi. Ok. I get it now.................

jaeger19 · Jul 17, 2013

Aunt Spiker said:
It's my theory - formed after years of reading similar stories to the OP online about guns and situations - that people who are armed have a sense of security in which they imagine they can handle whatever tense situation might pop up - and it's even their duty - to investigate matters. (Perhaps they naturally have this sense and thus they're more likely to own firearms, though)

Without being armed - individuals are much less likely to do so out of fear for their safety.

Unarmed individuals are much more sensible in that they will not poke a hornets nest, so to speak.

If someone's going to carry a firearm they should still realize that they're not suddenly *the* law or *the* only one capable of handling situations that come up. They shouldn't let it go to their head and become cocky and full of nothing but testosterone and ego. . . because that seems to be what happens = guns tend to give people a sense of empowerment, and only the good ones don't abuse it.

Imagine if the homeless guy living in his car drinking off some beer was high on crank, instead, and squirrelly - pulled a gun because you were snooping around his car. That could have easily gone from 'no big deal' to 'trouble'

After years of being around armed individuals.. (my state is open carry).. and having seen studies on the issue. I think that you are inaccurately ascribing the gun as the reason for the confidence etc. Generally.. people that are more inclined to feel responsible for their own safety and the safety of others.. who are more aware of the dangers of the world... are the ones that seek being armed. They probably seem more secure to you, because they start with the mental understanding of the situation.. rather than a knee jerk panic.
A study done after Katrina found that gun owners and their families and close friends faired significantly better after Katrina,, than those that were unarmed. Was it because that somehow the guns helped them steal supplies or protect themselves? NO. It was because gun ownership was associated with folks that felt the need to be responsible for their own safety and their friends and family and because of that.. they took steps to prepare for potentially bad situations. They had water, food, etc etc. While the rest of the unarmed public tended toward panic and the belief that others would come to their aid.. and when they did not.. they knew not what to do...

Meanwhile.. armed individuals, had often prepared themselves and their family and did not panic.

Bonzai · Jul 17, 2013

windowdressing said:
:mrgreen: this one? it says mrgreen ... beats me ... green with envy? maybe Paul was trying to tell you that he is green with envy not having your intelligence and wit ... Make sense?

LOL..............That will never happen in a million years, but I like your train of thinking....................

Goshin · Jul 17, 2013

jaeger19 said:
After years of being around armed individuals.. (my state is open carry).. and having seen studies on the issue. I think that you are inaccurately ascribing the gun as the reason for the confidence etc. Generally.. people that are more inclined to feel responsible for their own safety and the safety of others.. who are more aware of the dangers of the world... are the ones that seek being armed. They probably seem more secure to you, because they start with the mental understanding of the situation.. rather than a knee jerk panic.
A study done after Katrina found that gun owners and their families and close friends faired significantly better after Katrina,, than those that were unarmed. Was it because that somehow the guns helped them steal supplies or protect themselves? NO. It was because gun ownership was associated with folks that felt the need to be responsible for their own safety and their friends and family and because of that.. they took steps to prepare for potentially bad situations. They had water, food, etc etc. While the rest of the unarmed public tended toward panic and the belief that others would come to their aid.. and when they did not.. they knew not what to do...

Meanwhile.. armed individuals, had often prepared themselves and their family and did not panic.

QFT. Very well said and true. Kudos.

Porchev · Jul 17, 2013

Most of my life it was rare when I carried a concealed firearm. However in the past 2 years I have started to carry a small concealed handgun very frequently. In part because my medical condition (I have had for 2 years) puts me at a disadvantage in a physical fight, and I also have taken up hunting as a hobby so I am around guns a lot more often nowadays. The handgun I carry is strictly for defensive purposes and I really don't do anything differently when I carry. I would rather avoid situations that could potentially end up in violence, unless it was absolutely necessary. I never was a cop and the only periodic formal training I have had with firearms was the USAF required that I take an academic class and shoot an 9mm handgun (and previously the .38 too) about every 2 years (for the past 28 years) just to keep me somewhat familiar with them, since we occasionally had them stored on the aircraft I used to fly in. Any gun I carry for personal protection is just in case of emergencies...when problems come to me. For example, when I drive long distances like I did recently to Florida, I had a gun (GLOCK 26 Gen4) with a round in the chamber in a angled holster on my hip the whole drive. The angled holster makes it so I can easily get to it while sitting if required. If my car breaks down in the middle of nowhere or if there is some unforeseen problem during a regular stop I want to have an effective means of self-defense. I just don't want anything like what happened to this couple happen to me:

Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were raped, tortured, and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Christian's vehicle had been carjacked. Five people were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of capital murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape, and theft, while a fifth was indicted at the federal level.

According to the testimony of the Knox County Acting Medical Examiner Dr. Darinka Mileusnic-Polchan at the subsequent trial of Eric Boyd, Newsom was repeatedly sodomized with an object and then blindfolded, gagged, arms and feet bound and his head covered. Barefoot, he was dragged outside the house to a set of nearby railroad tracks. He was sexually mutilated, shot in the back of his head, neck and back and his body was then set on fire.

According to the testimony of the medical examiner, Channon's death came after hours of torture, having suffered injuries to her vagina, anus and mouth. She was raped with an unidentified object and beaten in the head. It was also reported that her body was scrubbed with bleach which was also poured down her throat, in an attempt by her attackers to remove DNA evidence, while Channon was still alive. She was then bound with curtains and strips of bedding, her face covered with a bin liner and her body stashed within five large bin bags, before being placed inside a residential waste disposal unit and covered with sheets. The medical examiner said there was evidence that Channon slowly suffocated to death.

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom

The killers.

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Goshin · Jul 17, 2013

Porchev said:
Most of my life it was rare when I carried a concealed firearm. However in the past 2 years I have started to carry a small concealed handgun very frequently. In part because my medical condition (I have had for 2 years) puts me at a disadvantage in a physical fight, and I also have taken up hunting as a hobby so I am around guns a lot more often nowadays. The handgun I carry is strictly for defensive purposes and I really don't do anything differently when I carry. I would rather avoid situations that could potentially end up in violence, unless it was absolutely necessary. I never was a cop and the only periodic formal training I have had with firearms was the USAF required that I take an academic class and shoot an 9mm handgun (and previously the .38 too) about every 2 years (for the past 28 years) just to keep me somewhat familiar with them, since we occasionally had them stored on the aircraft I used to fly in. Any gun I carry for personal protection is just in case of emergencies...when problems come to me. For example, when I drive long distances like I did recently to Florida, I had a gun (GLOCK 26 Gen4) with a round in the chamber in a angled holster on my hip the whole drive. The angled holster makes it so I can easily get to it while sitting if required. If my car breaks down in the middle of nowhere or if there is some unforeseen problem during a regular stop I want to have an effective means of self-defense. I just don't want anything like what happened to this couple happen to me:

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are SO right. It is cases like this one, THAT is why we carry.... not any kind of silly nonsense about penises or egos, or cop-wannabe crap.... THIS STORY. THIS is why.

Carjosse · Jul 17, 2013

Jerry said:
Now that you're caught up with us, maybe you would like to contribute to the conversation.

Well I could use Canada to discredit concealed carry. Concealed carry cannot stop plenty of homicides.

Lutherf · Jul 17, 2013

Porchev said:
Most of my life it was rare when I carried a concealed firearm. However in the past 2 years I have started to carry a small concealed handgun very frequently. In part because my medical condition (I have had for 2 years) puts me at a disadvantage in a physical fight, and I also have taken up hunting as a hobby so I am around guns a lot more often nowadays. The handgun I carry is strictly for defensive purposes and I really don't do anything differently when I carry. I would rather avoid situations that could potentially end up in violence, unless it was absolutely necessary. I never was a cop and the only periodic formal training I have had with firearms was the USAF required that I take an academic class and shoot an 9mm handgun (and previously the .38 too) about every 2 years (for the past 28 years) just to keep me somewhat familiar with them, since we occasionally had them stored on the aircraft I used to fly in. Any gun I carry for personal protection is just in case of emergencies...when problems come to me. For example, when I drive long distances like I did recently to Florida, I had a gun (GLOCK 26 Gen4) with a round in the chamber in a angled holster on my hip the whole drive. The angled holster makes it so I can easily get to it while sitting if required. If my car breaks down in the middle of nowhere or if there is some unforeseen problem during a regular stop I want to have an effective means of self-defense. I just don't want anything like what happened to this couple happen to me:

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understand carrying in the car but should point out that the couple in the crime you cite were actually abducted coming out of their apartment. If someone is going to carry for self defense only carrying sometimes is only helpful sometimes.

Sticking to the intent of this thread, parking lots pretty much top the list of places where I'm more vigilant than normal. I also tend to stay away from groups of people that seem to just be hanging out in a public place with no particular activity going on. I'll give individuals who are hanging out a look too but if one person is hanging out I also look for a group hanging out in the same area.

Approaching situations while armed

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Approaching situations while armed

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