AOC voted against seizing Russia oligarchs assets, do you agree with her reasoning?

[Nomad4Ever]

Too many on the left have swallowed Putin's propaganda and he has played the Far Left and alt-Left to the point where they're almost echoing Putin's exact speeches verbatim, and while "The Squad" stopped short of adopting Putin's label of Ukrainians as "nazis", that Russian boilerplate needs no introduction on the alt-Left.

I generally agree. It really is painful. Plenty of leftists in much closer proximity to Russia are very frustrated from what I can tell with Western leftists reluctance to accept how bad Russian imperialism is. I think Bernie took a much better position on the Russia situation than AOC did, personally.

AOC and her squad seemed to have missed the point on Putin and while she's not a Tulsi Gabbard or a Jill Stein, I bet she can see them both from where she stands.
And it has broken my admiration for her big time.

I don't think we should idolize any politician. AOC and the Squad still broadly have a much better policy platform than other members of government. While they really fell off on this one issue I don't find that reason enough to stop supporting them politically.

 

[Tigerace117]

AOC is the enemy within. She should be arrested, tried, and imprisoned for 30 years. This THING is destroying the USA. She hates it so much she chooses to stay.

Gee, if one politician who isn’t even president can “destroy the US” clearly it’s too weak to exist in the first place.

 

[Lisa]

AOC (and the rest of The Squad) voted against seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. After receiving some criticism for her vote she put out a statement explaining her reasoning.
View attachment 67388435
I find this to be a very compelling argument. Obviously there is a lot of strong emotional energy to take immediate action on issues like this, but personally I find her argument to be principled and convincing.

Please discuss.

Yes, I agree with her. The 4th Amendment has been abused by asset forfeiture and the USA PATRIOT ACT.

 

[911Sparky]

THAT PART of her argument WAS indeed very compelling however it was not her entire argument.
She and the rest of her "squad" have from time to time also introduced a raft of arguments about "NATO expansion" being the cause OF Putin's invasion, thus she is channeling a kind of "Max Blumenthal/Frank-Walter Steinmeier/Voldemort/anti-imperialist" argument to left-splain why Russia is invading Ukraine.

Too many on the left have swallowed Putin's propaganda and he has played the Far Left and alt-Left to the point where they're almost echoing Putin's exact speeches verbatim, and while "The Squad" stopped short of adopting Putin's label of Ukrainians as "nazis", that Russian boilerplate needs no introduction on the alt-Left.

I'm still looking for the MILLIONS OF NAZIS in Ukraine and so far I just see a bunch of young and strong knuckleheads who
were probably impressed by the Hugo Boss uniforms and the scary looking tattoos.

We have more actual card carrying Nazis in Anaheim California than four hundred Azov battalions put together.
Here, in OUR military, they seem a lot more serious about playing Nazi. The Pentagon had to fight like hell to force out the hardcore ones who are all tatted up and who were members of clandestine paramilitary militias
prior to joining up for Uncle Sam.
But I could be wrong, perhaps the Azov wing of Ukraine's military is indeed rife with a few thousand misguided knuckleheads who have yet to get the memo.

But they don't look like twenty year old Ukrainian college coeds or eighty year old grandmothers, which is what's littering the streets of Bucha today,
and not a single Nazi tat on any of them so far.

AOC and her squad seemed to have missed the point on Putin and while she's not a Tulsi Gabbard or a Jill Stein, I bet she can see them both from where she stands.
And it has broken my admiration for her big time.

Disagree with AOC for what I believe is a very strong reason, The Oligarch's money isn't theirs to begin with, the vast majority was stolen from the Russian
people. There simply is no other explanation for Putin to be considered one of the worlds richest men, on a salary of $167,000 per year. Maybe he has a better investment banker than I do, but I suspect his fortune was siphoned away from his own citizens. So why should I feel badly if Putin's stolen money is stolen from him? The other consideration being that when the war is over it will take billions to rebuild Ukraine, and Russia will be too financially devastated to do so, lets take their money and use it to rebuild Ukraine when the time comes.

 

[911Sparky]

AOC is the enemy within. She should be arrested, tried, and imprisoned for 30 years. This THING is destroying the USA. She hates it so much she chooses to stay.

What crimes should she be arrested and tried for? Did she turn you down for a date?

 

[Lisa]

Disagree with AOC for what I believe is a very strong reason, The Oligarch's money isn't theirs to begin with, the vast majority was stolen from the Russian
people. There simply is no other explanation for Putin to be considered one of the worlds richest men, on a salary of $167,000 per year. Maybe he has a better investment banker than I do, but I suspect his fortune was siphoned away from his own citizens. So why should I feel badly if Putin's stolen money is stolen from him? The other consideration being that when the war is over it will take billions to rebuild Ukraine, and Russia will be too financially devastated to do so, lets take their money and use it to rebuild Ukraine when the time comes.

It is currently theirs, so if what you claim is true then we start to constitutionally permitted process to seize it via the courts. It sets a very bad precedent, that can be used against us, to do it otherwise.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Her reasoning is very logical and sound.

Her so called reasoning is an example of how naive she is. All the Russian oligarchs are cogs in Putins Russian mafia political machine.

 

[911Sparky]

It is currently theirs, so if what you claim is true then we start to constitutionally permitted process to seize it via the courts. It sets a very bad precedent, that can be used against us, to do it otherwise.

Maybe you need to explain to me how seizing money from Russian criminals, who are not US citizens puts the average US citizen at risk of having their assets seized? And please don't use the slippery slope argument, I hear that enough from the gun nuts.

 

[Lisa]

Maybe you need to explain to me how seizing money from Russian criminals, who are not US citizens puts the average US citizen at risk of having their assets seized? And please don't use the slippery slope argument, I hear that enough from the gun nuts.

If the illegally gained money is in the US/US banks it can be seized. It is then returned to the rightful owners.

 

[911Sparky]

If the illegally gained money is in the US/US banks it can be seized. It is then returned to the rightful owners.

And how do we determine the rightful owners of money seized from Russian oligarchs'?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

AOC (and the rest of The Squad) voted against seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. After receiving some criticism for her vote she put out a statement explaining her reasoning.
View attachment 67388435
I find this to be a very compelling argument. Obviously there is a lot of strong emotional energy to take immediate action on issues like this, but personally I find her argument to be principled and convincing.

Please discuss.

She has an excellent point that I almost wish she didn't have.

 

[Credence]

AOC (and the rest of The Squad) voted against seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. After receiving some criticism for her vote she put out a statement explaining her reasoning.
View attachment 67388435
I find this to be a very compelling argument. Obviously there is a lot of strong emotional energy to take immediate action on issues like this, but personally I find her argument to be principled and convincing.

Please discuss.

I don't usually agree with AOC but she definitely has a valid point as there has been a history of illegal civil assets forefeiture here from citizens just for being suspected whether they are convicted or even charged with a crime

I would think there should be an international law established

 

[iguanaman]

AOC (and the rest of The Squad) voted against seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. After receiving some criticism for her vote she put out a statement explaining her reasoning.
View attachment 67388435
I find this to be a very compelling argument. Obviously there is a lot of strong emotional energy to take immediate action on issues like this, but personally I find her argument to be principled and convincing.

Please discuss.

I don't believe war criminals deserve "due process" but if we want that we can convene a tribunal using the evidence from the World Court.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't usually agree with AOC but she definitely has a valid point as there has been a history of illegal civil assets forefeiture here from citizens just for being suspected whether they are convicted or even charged with a crime

I may be wrong but I thought there was a specific law POTUS has requested in order for him to do this?

Correct. We take drug dealers assets all the time but now we are drawing the line at war criminals and murderers? I find that insane. Seize those assets and sell them to benefit Ukraine.

 

[Antiwar]

Yes, it is.

I'd like to hear how continuing barbarism and ignoring environmentalism, which is what any and all militarism does. is not unwise.

 

[Excon]

AOC (and the rest of The Squad) voted against seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. After receiving some criticism for her vote she put out a statement explaining her reasoning.
View attachment 67388435
I find this to be a very compelling argument. Obviously there is a lot of strong emotional energy to take immediate action on issues like this, but personally I find her argument to be principled and convincing.

Please discuss.

Link?

 

[Antiwar]

You'd think they wouldn't be so anal with the purity tests considering one of their idols (Jimmy Dore) runs interference in defense of Tulsi's anti-M4A stance.

Who are you talking about?

 

[Excon]

Correct. We take drug dealers assets all the time but now we are drawing the line at war criminals and murderers? I find that insane. Seize those assets and sell them to benefit Ukraine.

You claiming war criminal and murder does not make a war criminal or murderer.
And **** the Ukraine, we shouldn't even be there to begin with.

 

[Geoist]

Who are you talking about?

Online leftists who haven't the first clue about how the real world works. Call them Bernie-or-busters, Dore-ites, etc.

 

[Credence]

Correct. We take drug dealers assets all the time but now we are drawing the line at war criminals and murderers? I find that insane. Seize those assets and sell them to benefit Ukraine.

If they are convicted I see no reason for drug dealers' assets to be seized. No one's assets should be seized on mere suspicion

Putin is the one who started the war not the oligarchs. I would love to see their assets sold to benefit Ukraine as well and have said as much previously. However AOC's rebuttal has definitely given me food for thought. They are not the criminals here unless proven otherwise

 

[Antiwar]

Online leftists who haven't the first clue about how the real world works. Call them Bernie-or-busters, Dore-ites, etc.

What's your position on the Russia-Ukraine war and the US's involvement?

 

[iguanaman]

If they are convicted I see no reason for drug dealers' assets to be seized. No one's assets should be seized on mere suspicion

Putin is the one who started the war not the oligarchs. I would love to see their assets sold to benefit Ukraine as well and have said as much previously. However AOC's rebuttal has definitely given me food for thought. They are not the criminals here unless proven otherwise

We seize assets from criminals because that money was obtained illegally. The assets of the oligarchs was stolen from the USSR. They have no right to them. Besides the money ALL belongs to Putin. Are you saying you don't think he is a criminal?

 

[Antiwar]

While they really fell off on this one issue

What did they fall off of? I think they're still on the neoliberal/neoconservative bandwagon, and that you wish they were fully on-board with you.

 

[Credence]

We seize assets from criminals because that money was obtained illegally. The assets of the oligarchs was stolen from the USSR. They have no right to them. Besides the money ALL belongs to Putin. Are you saying you don't think he is a criminal?

If they are not chaarged or convicted it is only a suspicion that any assets were obtained illegally

Like I said in my post you quoted; Putin is the war criminal not the oligarchs uless proven otherwise and there are some who have spoken out against this war.

 

[iguanaman]

If they are not chaarged or convicted it is only a suspicion that any assets were obtained illegally

Like I said in my post you quoted; Putin is the war criminal not the oligarchs uless proven otherwise and there are some who have spoken out against this war.

It is Putin's money they are holding. Are you saying he is not a criminal?

William Browder, a onetime investor in Russia who was instrumental in U.S. Congress’ passage of the Magnitsky Act, which sanctions foreign individuals who commit human rights abuses, estimates Putin’s wealth at more than $200 billion. That would put him on par with Tesla’s Elon Musk as the richest person on Earth.
He based his estimate on a deal he said Putin struck with the oligarchs in 2004. It was a Mafia-like offer they could not refuse: Half of all they earned would belong to Putin. “He doesn’t have any money in his own name,” Browder said from London.
Then where is the money?
A lot of it is stashed in overseas accounts, investments and properties. An estimated $800 billion is held by wealthy Russians offshore, according to a 2017 study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research.

Palaces, super-yachts, Swiss accounts. How rich is Putin and can sanctions hurt him?

The Russian president is believed to be very wealthy, but his assets are in the name of relatives, associates and friendly oligarchs.

www.latimes.com