Anyone who supports Donald Trump is a traitor to the American idea

jamesrage · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:
Is there one with Canada?

The vast majority of people illegally in this country are from south of our border.Not north of our border. So logic would dictate that the southern border needs a wall or fence a hell whole lot more than our northern border. So it is idiotic of the pro-amnesty crowd to bring up why not a fence for our northern border. Now I am sure as a amnesty supporter you will bring up that 40% or so of people here illegally on here on overstayed visas as some sort of pathetic excuse for why we don't need a fence, wall or some other means to secure our border.That doesn't change the fact that around 59% of those here illegally came here by crossing into our country illegally. Plus the overstayed visa problem can be solved by cutting of visas to problem countries.

FieldTheorist · Jul 16, 2016

Fletch said:
Total garbage. But that is what I have come to expect from leftists.

That's such a compelling argument. The best part was the reasoning.

jamesrage · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:
You rather see a 50-foot wall at our Southern border?

I am for all sorts of solutions to deter people from coming into this country illegally. A wall is a huge one time expense with a long term benefit.It would supply Americans with jobs for several years to build the wall and some Americans with long term jobs to maintain the wall and it would be easier to spread out our border patrol.

Some of my other solutions would encourage those already here illegally to leave and deter future illegal immigration. If we could count on future presidents to enforce these then a wall would be unnecessary.

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate( in rare cases a non-availability birth certificate where it has been investigated that the individual was born in the US), green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.

5.Seeing how many of these people here illegally came here on a visa and let it expire we should also cut off visas to citizens of countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with until those numbers go down.

Chomsky · Jul 16, 2016

ocean515 said:
:lamo

A traitor to the American Idea? WTH?

Perhaps the laughable ideologue, Charles P. Pierce and his cohorts at Esquire should reacquaint themselves with what the American Idea actually is.

It isn't defined by subservience to one ideological imperative defined by an elite class of bureaucrats beholding to financial backers with agendas. It's defined by the will of it's citizens who freely express their opinions and preferences through speech and vote.

Trump is a product of this expression.

It's unsurprising the admission of extreme fear over the will of free people manifests itself in screeds like the one linked in this thread.

Sure, effectively calling people traitors for supporting Trump is a rational expression of what the American Idea is.

At least one can take solace in viewing more evidence of how frightened liberal ideologues are by the free expression of free citizens. The Founding Fathers would be pleased.

I agree with a great deal here, but must add some caveats:

Our forefathers also nixed direct democracy due to their understanding of it, and it leading to "the tyranny of the minority by the majority"! They gave us a Constitution, a Republic, and Representative Government - rather than a Democracy.

There was to be *no* religious test in *their* vision of the republic ...

jamesrage · Jul 16, 2016

PIPEWRENCH said:
That is still the purpose behind the 40 million people illegally entered this country. The only difference is they are also used to crush the unions fighting for a livable wage, safety on the job site, and all the benefits we are losing.

If you think about this has been going on for a long time in this country.Before they started importing millions of immigrants to work for dirt cheap wages they were importing millions of slaves to work for nothing, Then around the time slavery ended they were importing the Chinese to build railroads and other things for dirt cheap wages. Then when their numbers were restricted they imported other groups of people to do the same and those groups of people were eventually restricted into coming into the country.

Does anyone see the irony of having millions of citizens out of work on welfare and unemployment while we bring millions of people to do slave labor, in unsafe conditions, for less than minimum wage, and usually circumventing our taxes.

We have no immigration policy. When you don't enforce the law you have no law.

I find it ironic that the same people who support higher minimum wage wages, more welfare benefits, living wages, free health care, free college and other freebees tend to be the same ones who support amnesty for illegals, and or unrestricted legal immigration and open borders. Where is all this money for all this "free" stuff they want going to come from if they keep importing more people to take it all? People generally immigrate or migrate to other countries to make a better life for themselves, not to downgrade their life for themselves.

iguanaman · Jul 16, 2016

jamesrage said:
If you think about this has been going on for a long time in this country.Before they started importing millions of immigrants to work for dirt cheap wages they were importing millions of slaves to work for nothing, Then around the time slavery ended they were importing the Chinese to build railroads and other things for dirt cheap wages. Then when their numbers were restricted they imported other groups of people to do the same and those groups of people were eventually restricted into coming into the country.

I find it ironic that the same people who support higher minimum wage wages, more welfare benefits, living wages, free health care, free college and other freebees tend to be the same ones who support amnesty for illegals, and or unrestricted legal immigration and open borders. Where is all this money for all this "free" stuff they want going to come from if they keep importing more people to take it all? People generally immigrate or migrate to other countries to make a better life for themselves, not to downgrade their life for themselves.

What is ironic is that "the wall" may prevent more Mexicans from returning home than coming here.

More Mexican immigrants have returned to Mexico from the U.S. than have migrated here since the end of the Great Recession, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from both countries. The same data sources also show the overall flow of Mexican immigrants between the two countries is at its smallest since the 1990s, mostly due to a drop in the number of Mexican immigrants coming to the U.S.

From 2009 to 2014, 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics (ENADID). U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico.

More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. | Pew Research Center

ocean515 · Jul 16, 2016

Chomsky said:
I agree with a great deal here, but must add some caveats:

Our forefathers also nixed direct democracy due to their understanding of it, and it leading to "the tyranny of the minority by the majority"! They gave us a Constitution, a Republic, and Representative Government - rather than a Democracy.

There was to be *no* religious test in *their* vision of the republic ...

Yes they did. And I inferred nothing that would require caveats.

Trump is a direct response to the Constitution, the Republic, the Representative Government, and the method prescribed by it all to select who is to govern the people who populate it.

Ask yourself how closely those ideals are addressed by those who champion a strong Central Government, using the power of regulatory agencies to control the population, and calling people traitors for endorsing someone who they believe has a different vision.

Lord of Planar · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

Why aren't Hillary supporters traitors?

LetsGoBrandon · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

I don't support either of Trump or Hillary. However if someone held a gun to my head and said you must support one or the other, it certainly would not be crooked Hillary.

Mason66 · Jul 16, 2016

Lord of Planar said:
Why aren't Hillary supporters traitors?

Well, to be a traitor you have to be capable of independent thought, which Hillary supporters are not.

Lord of Planar · Jul 16, 2016

Mason66 said:
Well, to be a traitor you have to be capable of independent thought, which Hillary supporters are not.

I yield to your wisdom of truth.

LetsGoBrandon · Jul 16, 2016

jamesrage said:
If you think about this has been going on for a long time in this country.Before they started importing millions of immigrants to work for dirt cheap wages they were importing millions of slaves to work for nothing, Then around the time slavery ended they were importing the Chinese to build railroads and other things for dirt cheap wages. Then when their numbers were restricted they imported other groups of people to do the same and those groups of people were eventually restricted into coming into the country.

I find it ironic that the same people who support higher minimum wage wages, more welfare benefits, living wages, free health care, free college and other freebees tend to be the same ones who support amnesty for illegals, and or unrestricted legal immigration and open borders. Where is all this money for all this "free" stuff they want going to come from if they keep importing more people to take it all? People generally immigrate or migrate to other countries to make a better life for themselves, not to downgrade their life for themselves.

The democrats are in a tough spot. They want to pander to the poor and to union labor with higher minimum wages for votes, however they also want to open the borders and allow an unlimited number of illegal immigrants for the sake of changing the voting demographics. And it's the illegals who are keeping the unskilled wages down and even taking many jobs that would otherwise go to union workers.

LetsGoBrandon · Jul 16, 2016

MaggieD said:
Hyperbole much?

I'm soooo SICK of people bashing candidates, saying the world will end. This one's a Nazi.That one's a closet Muslim. That one over there once shook hands with a Grand Poobar in the KKK. The guy in the back is a traitor. The one behind the curtain is a racist...misogynist...plantation master...WHATEVER.

What happened to supporting your own candidate instead of bashing the other guy?

So juvenile.

Actually, I kind of enjoy bashing Hillary. However it is Hillary that provides the material.

Fruityfact · Jul 16, 2016

MaggieD said:
Hyperbole much?

I'm soooo SICK of people bashing candidates, saying the world will end. This one's a Nazi.That one's a closet Muslim. That one over there once shook hands with a Grand Poobar in the KKK. The guy in the back is a traitor. The one behind the curtain is a racist...misogynist...plantation master...WHATEVER.

What happened to supporting your own candidate instead of bashing the other guy?

So juvenile.

Alright, if Trump's your boy then what does he bring to the table
If Hillary is your gal, what does she do?

LetsGoBrandon · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:

As much as I dislike Trump...he is not anti-immigrant. Just anti-illegal immigrant. Immigrants are welcome, however they are expected to immigrate to the US legally. otherwise we are not a soverieign nation.

Lord of Planar · Jul 16, 2016

ObamacareFail said:
The democrats are in a tough spot. They want to pander to the poor and to union labor with higher minimum wages for votes, however they also want to open the borders and allow an unlimited number of illegal immigrants for the sake of changing the voting demographics. And it's the illegals who are keeping the unskilled wages down and even taking many jobs that would otherwise go to union workers.

True, but their core voters are too stupid to see those facts. It really isn't seen but by a small percentage of their voters.

jamesrage · Jul 16, 2016

iguanaman said:
What is ironic is that "the wall" may prevent more Mexicans from returning home than coming here.

More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. | Pew Research Center

I am all for the wall having one way exits or least telling our border guards to let anyone who wants to leave without showing any identification and visas.

Lord of Planar · Jul 16, 2016

Fruityfact said:
Alright, if Trump's your boy then what does he bring to the table
If Hillary is your gal, what does she do?

Neither are positive candidates. We have a choice of lesser evils.

jamesrage · Jul 16, 2016

ObamacareFail said:
The democrats are in a tough spot. They want to pander to the poor and to union labor with higher minimum wages for votes, however they also want to open the borders and allow an unlimited number of illegal immigrants for the sake of changing the voting demographics. And it's the illegals who are keeping the unskilled wages down and even taking many jobs that would otherwise go to union workers.

Amazing how this fact seems to those that support liberal democrats.

Casca XV · Jul 16, 2016

calamity said:
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

Step away from the Bong.

Casca XV · Jul 16, 2016

humbolt said:
Probably both. Trump supporters are obviously subhuman and should be wiped out. What other rational decision could one possibly reach? I haven't even read the link. I didn't know Gary Busey could write.

Spoken like a true Progressive Liberal Totalitarian who wants all political enemies in concentration camps

Fletch · Jul 16, 2016

FieldTheorist said:
That's such a compelling argument. The best part was the reasoning.

There is no reason for lengthy 'argument' to dispel your leftist lies. The Tea Party is not racist; Trump is not racist and neither are his supporters. Your claims to the contrary are simply lies. Hows that?

Chomsky · Jul 16, 2016

ocean515 said:
Yes they did. And I inferred nothing that would require caveats.

Trump is a direct response to the Constitution, the Republic, the Representative Government, and the method prescribed by it all to select who is to govern the people who populate it.

Ask yourself how closely those ideals are addressed by those who champion a strong Central Government, using the power of regulatory agencies to control the population, and calling people traitors for endorsing someone who they believe has a different vision.

To the bolded: Nor did I intend to imply you did.

But Trump skirts the edge of Constitutionality on occasion (his earlier claims of a religious entrance test - he's recently walked that back a bit). Even if the majority seem to want something, it cannot be given unless Constitutional - or they need to change the Constitution.

jimbo · Jul 16, 2016

jamesrage said:
I am for all sorts of solutions to deter people from coming into this country illegally. A wall is a huge one time expense with a long term benefit.It would supply Americans with jobs for several years to build the wall and some Americans with long term jobs to maintain the wall and it would be easier to spread out our border patrol.

Some of my other solutions would encourage those already here illegally to leave and deter future illegal immigration. If we could count on future presidents to enforce these then a wall would be unnecessary.

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate( in rare cases a non-availability birth certificate where it has been investigated that the individual was born in the US), green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.

5.Seeing how many of these people here illegally came here on a visa and let it expire we should also cut off visas to citizens of countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with until those numbers go down.

Your #1 is the simplest, least costly, and most effective. Raid a couple of Tyson plants and construction plants and use current laws and maximum fines and the problem goes away.

#4 also is a problem. Each and every one of the hundreds of thousands of minor kids shipped here by their parents is now an anchor family.

Add to that list prosecuting the localities, churches, and other groups aiding and abetting these criminals, cut off any federal funding and tax breaks to those groups and suddenly you have a mass exodus of illegals with no jobs, no benefits, and no means of support.

eohrnberger · Jul 16, 2016

iguanaman said:
What is ironic is that "the wall" may prevent more Mexicans from returning home than coming here.

More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Is this the famous 'self-deportation' that we heard so much about a few years ago? I remember that being roundly criticized then. Might have been spot on.

Anyone who supports Donald Trump is a traitor to the American idea

jamesrage

FieldTheorist

jamesrage

Chomsky

Social Democrat

jamesrage

iguanaman

ocean515

Lord of Planar

LetsGoBrandon

Mason66

Lord of Planar

LetsGoBrandon

LetsGoBrandon

Fruityfact

LetsGoBrandon

Lord of Planar

jamesrage

Lord of Planar

jamesrage

Casca XV

Casca XV

Fletch

Chomsky

Social Democrat

jimbo

eohrnberger

Anyone who supports Donald Trump is a traitor to the American idea

Social Democrat

Social Democrat

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