Anti-maskers explain themselves

Novichok said:

Why don’t you just give up on this nonsense with "cases". "Cases" are a case of bs. The only things that count are hospitalizations and deaths.

Even NY Times had an article that 90% of cases are bs because the method used to detect "cases" magnifies data and detects the virus that is "clinically" insignificant.

Many kids under 18 are "cases", but the number of dead is like 30 for the entire country since the beginning of that liedemic. When in the nation of 330,000,000, 200,000 old guys die, it's sad but it's not "pandemic". It's called "life". Life is a terminal disease.

The fearmongers have been looking for a case of a student passing this "horrible" virus to a teacher in Europe and they didn't find any.

Do you know that 75% of those who died in Europe, died in nursing homes? This shows what a bs lockdowns are. In the US, of the 200,000 dead, the median age is 78. Only 20% were under 65. What a load of crap - I mean the lockdowns.

BTW, I cited Europe because Europe (Belgium, Spain, and the UK) has higher death rates than the US. At least 3 countries there. Sweden, that smartly didn't lockdown, has a LOWER death rate than the UK, the US, and Italy that did. Duh!

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Apparently you can’t grasp the concept that when cases go up, hospitalizations and deaths go up. They are directly correlated with a lag time in between. The fact that many are asymptomatic is irrelevant, a percentage will still need to be hospitalized and will die.

You also can’t grasp the fact that the reason we don’t have many times the number of deaths is because of the mitigation efforts the we have taken.

Sweden didn’t have the same kind of lockdown as other countries but contrary to popular belief life is NOT normal there.


Sweden’s minister of health explains:

“Sweden is tackling the COVID-19 pandemic through both legally binding measures and recommendations. The government and the Swedish Public Health Agency have taken a number of decisions involving a wide range of new regulations and recommendations that affect the whole of society, including people’s private lives. There is no full lockdown in force, but many parts of Swedish society have shut down.

Life is not carrying on as normal in Sweden. Many people are staying at home and many have stopped travelling. This has had severe effects on Swedes as well as on the Swedish economy. Many businesses are folding. Unemployment is expected to rise dramatically. The Government has taken several measures to mitigate the economic effects and to stabilise the economy.

Sweden shares the same aim as all other countries: to protect the life and health of its population. Fundamentally, Sweden’s measures only differ from other countries in two regards: we are not shutting down schools for younger children or childcare facilities and we have no regulation that forces citizens to remain in their homes.”

They also claim to have good compliance with their social distancing rules up to near 90% now. Something that’s much easier to do when the leader of the country is in sync with the health authorities rather than working against them as Trump has done.

In June they also finally got the message that testing, quarantine and contact tracing works. After a slow start in March and April they are now on par with Germany who does a good job with this.

They also do things like restrictions on bars that only allow patrons to sit at socially distanced tables instead of standing around in crowds or cheek to cheek at the bar (something we could do).

Unfortunately they have suffered badly in terms of both mortality rates and economic damage compared to other countries before they got their act together.



I also see you are one of those people who think old people dying doesn’t matter. Perhaps you also think someone who kills an 80 year old person should not be prosecuted but I don’t think the law or most people would agree with you.

YOU and others like you including Trump who don’t follow the guidelines and discourage others from doing so are the reason for virus outbreaks and the resulting shutdowns needed to contain them.


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AlphaOmega said:

False. Those of us who have not hidden from germs have built up a much higher immunity than germophobes. It's why you always see it's the germophobes that are the ones who are constantly sick. Humans have evolved alongside germs. Your mask isnt going to help you. Cloth doesn't stop viruses. All you are going to donis give people lung infections from forcing them to breath through dirty masks. If you are afraid you should stay home and seal the windows with foil. It will keep the aliens from finding you as well. Right?

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You science deniers are the ones who cause outbreaks and the resulting lockdowns needed to control them.


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Helix said:

if the problem continues, they should be subject to fines. we fine people for not wearing seatbelts, and that only affects the person in question. being a militantly maskless moron has the potential to affect far more people than not wearing a seatbelt does.

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True. Not wearing a mask is more equivalent to driving 100 miles per hour where you not only endanger yourself but others as well.


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Novichok said:

Sweden has a comparable death rate with the UK. No lockdown and less damage to the economy.
"Immune" has many meanings. The only meaningful meaning is "immune to dying". 80% of the carriers don't even know they have it.

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Obviously you are clueless about Sweden, see a couple of posts back.


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Novichok said:

The idea that a cheap piece of cloth can stop the spread is so idiotic....At best, it can slow it down, which we were told would flatten the curve of demand for health services. Now, the little Hitlers like Cuomo and that retard de-Blasio, switched to "until we have a vaccine".

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Why are you rooting for another shutdown when we could just wear masks instead?


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George50 said:

Apparently you can’t grasp the concept that when cases go up, hospitalizations and deaths go up. They are directly correlated with a lag time in between. The fact that many are asymptomatic is irrelevant, a percentage will still need to be hospitalized and will die.

You also can’t grasp the fact that the reason we don’t have many times the number of deaths is because of the mitigation efforts the we have taken.

Sweden didn’t have the same kind of lockdown as other countries but contrary to popular belief life is NOT normal there.


Sweden’s minister of health explains:

“Sweden is tackling the COVID-19 pandemic through both legally binding measures and recommendations. The government and the Swedish Public Health Agency have taken a number of decisions involving a wide range of new regulations and recommendations that affect the whole of society, including people’s private lives. There is no full lockdown in force, but many parts of Swedish society have shut down.

Life is not carrying on as normal in Sweden. Many people are staying at home and many have stopped travelling. This has had severe effects on Swedes as well as on the Swedish economy. Many businesses are folding. Unemployment is expected to rise dramatically. The Government has taken several measures to mitigate the economic effects and to stabilise the economy.

Sweden shares the same aim as all other countries: (1) to protect the life and health of its population. Fundamentally, Sweden’s measures only differ from other countries in two regards: we are not shutting down schools for younger children or childcare facilities and we have no regulation that forces citizens to remain in their homes.”

They also claim to have good compliance with their social distancing rules up to near 90% now. Something that’s much easier to do when the leader of the country is in sync with the health authorities rather than working against them as Trump has done.

In June they also finally got the message that testing, quarantine and contact tracing works. After a slow start in March and April they are now on par with Germany who does a good job with this.

They also do things like restrictions on bars that only allow patrons to sit at socially distanced tables instead of standing around in crowds or cheek to cheek at the bar (something we could do).

Unfortunately they have suffered badly in terms of both mortality rates and economic damage compared to other countries before they got their act together.



I also see you are one of those people who think old people dying doesn’t matter. Perhaps (2) you also think someone who kills an 80 year old person should not be prosecuted but I don’t think the law or most people would agree with you.

YOU and others like you including Trump who don’t follow the guidelines and discourage others from doing so are the reason for virus outbreaks and the resulting shutdowns needed to contain them.


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(1) At what cost. Please, do not tell me "at any cost". 75% of the dead are 78-y-o. 94% had 2.5 of underlying conditions. Even without CV, what would be their life expectancy? You have not the slightest idea.

So, it boils down to this: how much does a society want to spend to prolong the life in the group I just defined? A million per day?

(2) Wrong. Cuomo should have been charged criminally long time ago. But this pos couldn't possibly "discriminate" against those with the virus, so he forced the nursing homes to take them.

George50 said:

Why are you rooting for another shutdown when we could just wear masks instead?
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Click to expand...

Did you quit beating your wife?
Your question was just as stupid.

Yeah, I got it. If we were all wearing masks since Jan 1, 2020, CV would not kill one single person in the US. Is that right?

If masks are science, how many would die if we quit wearing them starting today? Real science is very predictable. This bs is not predictable because it's not science. Just better than without.
If that's the basis, I can claim that farting at home instead of outside reduces the CV death rate. How about free porn on TV to keep people at home?

Name one study that proves in numbers the effectiveness of masks. Not how they are lousy filtering, but how many lives they save.

Novichok said:

BS. CDC reported that 6% died from the chinavirus and without any underlying conditions, UC's. That's the only number that should be the guide. If you (editorial) are a fat pig, with high blood pressure, diabetes, and a heart condition - all earned over the lifetime of idiotic behavior - don't come to me for sympathy when you are dead. We told you to knock it off.

The virus mafia likes with more and avoids from because the numbers are more scary and more lilely to make the sheep comply with the little Hitlers' orders.

BTW, the same CDC reported that the average death with the virus includes 2.5 of UC's. Combine that with the median age of 78 and it's a miracle they lived THAT long.

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Why are you still posting debunked QAnon conspiracy theories?

The term “Only 6%” trended widely on Twitter as supporters of the QAnon conspiracy theory promoted tweets that falsely suggested the CDC had updated its records to show that only 6% of U.S. deaths tied to COVID-19 were legitimate. President Donald Trump was among those who tweeted the information, which was later taken down by Twitter for violating platform rules.

This was such a ridiculous misinterpretation of the CDC report that they had to issue a clarification:

“The underlying cause of death is the condition that began the chain of events that ultimately led to the person’s death," Dr. Robert Anderson, who oversees the CDC’s death statistics work, said in a statement. “In 92% of all deaths that mention COVID-19, COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause of death."


For example, respiratory failure was the biggest cause of death listed along with COVID-19. Are you so clueless that you aren’t even aware that COVID-19 CAUSES respiratory failure? The 6% number is only the number of deaths where the doctor listed nothing else, but they should have indicated what the actual organs that COVID-19 destroyed were.


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I bought a box of these masks on Amazon. They are way more comfortable to wear, and 100 times easier to breath while wearing. I challenge anyone to tell me how they aren't better than any other mask when it comes to stopping saliva too.

MY BODY MY CHOICE.

Novichok said:

Did you quit beating your wife?
Your question was just as stupid.

Yeah, I got it. If we were all wearing masks since Jan 1, 2020, CV would not kill one single person in the US. Is that right?

If masks are science, how many would die if we quit wearing them starting today? Real science is very predictable. This bs is not predictable because it's not science. Just better than without.
If that's the basis, I can claim that farting at home instead of outside reduces the CV death rate. How about free porn on TV to keep people at home?

Name one study that proves in numbers the effectiveness of masks. Not how they are lousy filtering, but how many lives they save.

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Another stupid comment. No one has said there would be no deaths if everyone wore masks.

What you people don’t seem to understand is that it just makes common sense for us to emulate countries who are doing a good job rather than those who are doing the worst. Even if we can’t figure out exactly how much each action a country has taken has contributed to their success we should still try to do what the successful countries have done. Especially something as easy and simple as wearing a mask. Why? Because we know they have a formula, a set of actions, that WORKS!

In addition to masks, successful countries like Germany (1/5 the per capita deaths of the US) or South Korea (1/100 the per capita deaths) have had excellent testing, quarantine and contact tracing programs early on in the pandemic. As a result they have not needed to lockdown as severely as we have. That meant less damage to their economy. While we have an 8.4% unemployment rate, South Korea is at 3.2% and Germany is at 4.4%.

So yes, by being an anti masker you are encouraging conditions that will cause the need for more lockdowns.


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George50 said:

Another stupid comment. No one has said there would be no deaths if everyone wore masks.

What you people don’t seem to understand is that it just makes common sense for us to emulate countries who are doing a good job rather than those who are doing the worst. Even if we can’t figure out exactly how much each action a country has taken has contributed to their success we should still try to do what the successful countries have done. Especially something as easy and simple as wearing a mask. Why? Because we know they have a formula, a set of actions, that WORKS!

In addition to masks, successful countries like Germany (1/5 the per capita deaths of the US) or South Korea (1/100 the per capita deaths) have had excellent testing, quarantine and contact tracing programs early on in the pandemic. As a result they have not needed to lockdown as severely as we have. That meant less damage to their economy. While we have an 8.4% unemployment rate, South Korea is at 3.2% and Germany is at 4.4%.

So yes, by being an anti masker you are encouraging conditions that will cause the need for more lockdowns.
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Click to expand...

Our 8.4% unemployment was not caused by the CV. It was caused by arbitrary decisions by the governors. To their credit, they didn't know that those under 65 will have enough immunity to go to work. What is not to their credit is that their decisions were inconsistent and arbitrary. Like that idiot in Michigan who decided that boating is risky.

Today, to talk about another lockdown borders on criminal. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO AFFORD IT!!!!!

There are other factors beyond "Trump". In Korea, there are no fat people! Germans are regimented enough to start two world wars because some a-hole told them.

We are fat, and not that obedient. Plus, the US is not a country like Korea or Germany. We are 50 countries without the Euro-style central government, with the Dem governors and the swamp who hate Trump and spend all kinds of time to frustrate him. That would not be possible anywhere else.

Court Jester said:

I bought a box of these masks on Amazon. They are way more comfortable to wear, and 100 times easier to breath while wearing. I challenge anyone to tell me how they aren't better than any other mask when it comes to stopping saliva too.

MY BODY MY CHOICE.

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I assume you are also fine with people driving 100 miles an hour? You also believe “my car my choice?”


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Novichok said:

Our 8.4% unemployment was not caused by the CV. It was caused by arbitrary decisions by the governors. To their credit, they didn't know that those under 65 will have enough immunity to go to work. What is not to their credit is that their decisions were inconsistent and arbitrary. Like that idiot in Michigan who decided that boating is risky.

Today, to talk about another lockdown borders on criminal. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO AFFORD IT!!!!!

There are other factors beyond "Trump". In Korea, there are no fat people! Germans are regimented enough to start two world wars because some a-hole told them.

We are fat, and not that obedient. Plus, the US is not a country like Korea or Germany. We are 50 countries without the Euro-style central government, with the Dem governors and the swamp who hate Trump and spend all kinds of time to frustrate him. That would not be possible anywhere else.

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CV and inaction early on created the situation that required a lockdown.

Trump was the one who encouraged disobedience (and still is). Republicans are regimented enough to not wear masks because some a-hole told them.

Korea has fat people.

Germany has states that control health policy. Merkel could not mandate actions, she had to work with the states to get things done like the Federal Government does here.

If you don’t want more lockdowns why don’t you support wearing masks when it makes the need for more lockdowns less likely? You and Trump are for some misguided reason working against your own interests.


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George50 said:

I assume you are also fine with people driving 100 miles an hour? You also believe “my car my choice?”


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My observation is that people who are driving 100mph are at least paying attention. The people driving much slower and playing with their phones are more concerning to me. Sort of like the hoardes of sheeple who believe that a paper mask has some magical qualities which are stronger than common sense in the face of global biological reality of how these viruses run their course naturally.

I don't have covid because I have personally avoided getting infected. I stay away from people, doesn't matter if they have masks or not. Therefore, if I go out I could be wearing a pair of ladies mesh panties on my head and I am not putting anyone else at risk.

Court Jester said:

My observation is that people who are driving 100mph are at least paying attention. The people driving much slower and playing with their phones are more concerning to me. Sort of like the hoardes of sheeple who believe that a paper mask has some magical qualities which are stronger than common sense in the face of global biological reality of how these viruses run their course naturally.

I don't have covid because I have personally avoided getting infected. I stay away from people, doesn't matter if they have masks or not. Therefore, if I go out I could be wearing a pair of ladies mesh panties on my head and I am not putting anyone else at risk.

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Many people don’t have the luxury of staying home like you do. They have to go to work and often that means close contact. Others want to go out and live life rather than spending their entire day on this forum.


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George50 said:

Many people don’t have the luxury of staying home like you do. They have to go to work and often that means close contact. Others want to go out and live life rather than spending their entire day on this forum.

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If the want to live their lives then go out and live THEIR lives. Why make other people follow a mask mandate who don't want too? And besides, if someone actually believes thier life will be protected by the other guy wearing a mask the wrong way, then good luck with that.

JacksinPA said:

Anti-maskers explain themselves

"If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it."

www.vox.com

“If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it.”


At the outset of the pandemic, Amy, a 48-year-old mother of two from Ohio, was afraid. When the government began recommending people wear masks, she not only complied but also made masks for others. “I was like, oh, this is scary, this could be really bad,” she said.

But when Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced the state would extend its lockdown for the month of May, she’d had it. Pandemic over or not, she was done. After that, Amy became vehemently anti-mask and began to doubt whether the coronavirus was really that big of a deal. Her mother unfollowed her on Facebook over her “anger posts” about masks, and she hasn’t heard from her in a month. She carries a homemade mask with her, just in case, but she doesn’t believe in them.

“It’s a violation of my freedom, I think, and then also I just don’t think they work,” Amy said. “A lot of stuff says it does, but then some doesn’t.”

Masks have become an extremely heated point of contention during the Covid-19 outbreak. Viral videos of people having meltdowns over masks are commonplace, and in many parts of the country, it’s not abnormal for strangers to confront each other publicly over the issue. A small but vocal segment of the population has dug in and ignored the growing evidence that masks make a difference in combating the coronavirus. For those who believe that at the very least wearing a mask can’t hurt, it’s hard to not develop some animosity toward those who refuse. The question I keep hearing from pro-mask friends and family is always the same: What are these people thinking?

In recent weeks, I spoke with nearly a dozen people who consider themselves anti-mask to find out just that. What I discovered is that there is certainly a broad spectrum of reasons — some find wearing a mask annoying or just aren’t convinced they work, and others have gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracies that often involve vaccines, Big Pharma, YouTube, and Bill Gates. One man told me he wears a mask when he goes to the store to be polite. A woman got kicked out of a Menards store for refusing to wear a mask amid what she calls the “Covid scam garbage.”
==============================================================
People have changed quite a bit since 1918. But the Spanish Flu was very different. You could eat breakfast & be dead by nightfall.

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I have no problem with "If I'm going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it." as a philosophy of life. That said, if you really feel this way then do not seek treatment at a health care facility when you do get it. Let the health care resources go to those who don't share your point of view and work to not to expose themselves via their own complacency. I work in a free standing ER and we are seeing more and more "recovered" patients who come back in throwing blood clots, kidney damage, brain damage, lung damage, etc. Personally I'd rather not suffocate in an hyaluronic acid buildup in my lungs - not an easy way to pass on.

Court Jester said:

If the want to live their lives then go out and live THEIR lives. Why make other people follow a mask mandate who don't want too? And besides, if someone actually believes thier life will be protected by the other guy wearing a mask the wrong way, then good luck with that.

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People like you are the reason the US is the 206th worst as measured by deaths per million population among the 215 countries tracked by worldometer.

If you haven’t figured out by now that masks work far better when both parties wear them and that it is most important for the infectious person (who may not know they are infected) to be wearing one then you are just not paying any attention.

You are the reason that we can’t fully reopen the economy. You are the reason that we may need to shut down again.

I assume you are also against making people follow a speed limit mandate when they don’t want to. Why make people follow any mandates when they don’t want to? It sounds like you are an anarchist.


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Novichok said:

I want numbers how they filter and how they affect the wearers negatively - short and long term. The headaches are the first proof that the masks have a negative effect on many.
We demand that everything - including ****roaches and rats - must be studied before we build another dam. Do you know a study that would numerically document what effects masks have on the wearers, in general, and, specifically, on those with compromised blood circulation? Was it published?

BTW, science does not use adjectives. When you see adjectives, it's not science.

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You are demanding 'science' and not citing any science for your own point of view. ODD!!

Novichok said:

Why don’t you just give up on this nonsense with "cases". "Cases" are a case of bs. The only things that count are hospitalizations and deaths.

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So just to be clear, the purpose of a mask is to prevent 'cases' - i.e. infections. And when you are shown evidence that masks reduces 'cases' which is the goal of wearing masks, you move the goal posts to demand that masks also reduce hospitalizations and deaths. That is not scientific. It's SAD!!

Even NY Times had an article that 90% of cases are bs because the method used to detect "cases" magnifies data and detects the virus that is "clinically" insignificant.

Many kids under 18 are "cases", but the number of dead is like 30 for the entire country since the beginning of that liedemic. When in the nation of 330,000,000, 200,000 old guys die, it's sad but it's not "pandemic". It's called "life". Life is a terminal disease.

The fearmongers have been looking for a case of a student passing this "horrible" virus to a teacher in Europe and they didn't find any.

Do you know that 75% of those who died in Europe, died in nursing homes? This shows what a bs lockdowns are. In the US, of the 200,000 dead, the median age is 78. Only 20% were under 65. What a load of crap - I mean the lockdowns.

BTW, I cited Europe because Europe (Belgium, Spain, and the UK) has higher death rates than the US. At least 3 countries there. Sweden, that smartly didn't lockdown, has a LOWER death rate than the UK, the US, and Italy that did. Duh!

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So what does this ignorant rant have to do with masks?

AlphaOmega said:

False. Those of us who have not hidden from germs have built up a much higher immunity than germophobes. It's why you always see it's the germophobes that are the ones who are constantly sick. Humans have evolved alongside germs. Your mask isnt going to help you. Cloth doesn't stop viruses. All you are going to donis give people lung infections from forcing them to breath through dirty masks. If you are afraid you should stay home and seal the windows with foil. It will keep the aliens from finding you as well. Right?

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You don't have immunity against a novel virus.

It would also be nice to show your work for any of those ignorant claims, but that's asking too much, I know.

Court Jester said:

I bought a box of these masks on Amazon. They are way more comfortable to wear, and 100 times easier to breath while wearing. I challenge anyone to tell me how they aren't better than any other mask when it comes to stopping saliva too.

MY BODY MY CHOICE.

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Well, first of all your nose isn't covered. You do realize that you're capable of emitting germs through you nose, right?

AlphaOmega said:

Why cant you hide at home since you are the germophobe?

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This is the U.S. in the age of Trump. What masks represent, at the core, is common courtesy, and people who demonstrate it, respect their neighbors and coworkers and those in service jobs by wearing a mask and doing a simple, easy, and we think effective task that protects others are now condemned by the MAGA crew. More to the point, the MAGA crew dismiss the idea of common courtesy, and refuse to extend it. The attitude is F YOU!! I WILL DO WHAT I WANT!!!

It's really unbelievable this is where we are as a country.

JasperL said:

You don't have immunity against a novel virus.

It would also be nice to show your work for any of those ignorant claims, but that's asking too much, I know.

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Where did I claim Iwas immune? Oh wait, I didn't. Nice Straw man though. OK I'll reciprocate. You can absolutely get sick from eating bad chicken. It's ridiculous to say you cannot.

Novichok said:

Did you quit beating your wife?
Your question was just as stupid.

Yeah, I got it. If we were all wearing masks since Jan 1, 2020, CV would not kill one single person in the US. Is that right?

Click to expand...

No, that's not correct and no one makes that claim.

If masks are science, how many would die if we quit wearing them starting today? Real science is very predictable. This bs is not predictable because it's not science. Just better than without.

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Similarly, how many would be dead if no one wore a mask, instead of what we know in this area at least where the vast majority wear a mask when out in public indoors? If you are basing your opinion on "science" and subjecting your opinion to the standards you demand of others, you would know this answer. So what is the answer?

Name one study that proves in numbers the effectiveness of masks. Not how they are lousy filtering, but how many lives they save.

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You were shown a study that showed masks reduce cases. In SC those jurisdictions that had mask mandates saw cases drop. In those jurisdictions without mandates, cases rose.

So where's your study showing they do not work?