Anti-Choicers Say Protests at Tiller's Former Clinic Are Too Disruptve

[JayDubya]

You know, Moot...for the life of me, I don't remember Jay ever truly making any post that genuinely explains his extreme regard for the unborn...and his extreme disregard for women who choose to have an abortion. It's alway name calling, derogatory comments, etc...but...I don't have a clue, really. Do you?

You're claiming you've never seen me explain to you that killing innocent human beings is wrong? You're claiming that I've never explained that people who kill innocent human beings in cold blood are evil and dangerous and ought to be in prison?


Can you remember having a medical reason to have that kind of severe memory loss?



Also, you say that not wanting someone to be violently and needlessly killed constitutes "extreme regard" for them. Man. That's a humdinger of a worldview right there. Again, your words indicate that you think homicide should never be illegal. If that's not your intent, you sure do choose your words poorly.

 

[year2late]

Abortion is objectively an aggressive homicide. Subjectively, I think it should be prosecuted as murder.

Both of those statements are accurate. Neither of those statements involve stupid, defamatory namecalling.

In short, your comment comes off as a complete non sequitur.

Sorry but "murder" is not accurate. It is a lie. If is a wish on your part. SO when folks call it murder ...it is a bold faced lie. I will hope you will call the liars out on it

 

[Sykes]

Sorry but "murder" is not accurate. It is a lie. If is a wish on your part. SO when folks call it murder ...it is a bold faced lie. I will hope you will call the liars out on it

It is a lie. The right to abort is upheld by the SCotUS. They would not have done so if abortion were actually murder.

Hateful rhetoric, that's all that is.

 

[JayDubya]

Sorry but "murder" is not accurate. It is a lie. If is a wish on your part. SO when folks call it murder ...it is a bold faced lie. I will hope you will call the liars out on it

I do correct other people on the technicality. I agree with them that it should be murder. Murder is technically a specific class of illegal killing and a criminal charge - it means whatever a legal jurisdiction says it means.

I also note that people DO use the term "murder" and "murderer" outside of that context, however. A good example would be dictators whose killings were not illegal nor ever prosecuted nor capable of being prosecuted. If you limit people from using the word in this context, then Hitler murdered no one, because he said so (perhaps more accurately, because he made sure the law said so). If we are to be this literal, note that if there were no state, no one would ever be a murderer - the act could only be called homicide.



Furthermore, I do identify and distinguish fact from my stated opinion, and I just did. It is accurate that my subjective opinion is that this form of aggressive homicide should be prosecuted as murder. In no way is stating that opinion akin to the flamebait of applying a false label to everyone who disagrees with me.

 

[year2late]

Hey, as long as nobody gives a **** what happens to the baby after it's done baking, pro-birther it is.

"We just need more cannon fodder, ma'am. Sorry for the inconvenience."

I find pro-fetus is more accurate than pro-birther.

And certainly it is more accurate than pro-life. People who are really prolife would attack the alarming lack of access to high quality basic health care in this nation. They would care about the postborn as much. I have yet to see evidence of this in the political realm of the (fingerquote)pro-life(fingerquote) movement.

I especially am disgusted in this regard to the people who use the name of Jesus. What would Jesus have to say about thousands of living breathing human beings dying of treatable disease in a country that has every opportunity to do such. Yup. Pro-fetus is accurate.

 

[JayDubya]

I find pro-fetus is more accurate than pro-birther.

And certainly it is more accurate than pro-life. People who are really prolife would attack the alarming lack of access to high quality basic health care in this nation. They would care about the postborn as much. I have yet to see evidence of this in the political realm of the (fingerquote)pro-life(fingerquote) movement.

I especially am disgusted in this regard to the people who use the name of Jesus. What would Jesus have to say about thousands of living breathing human beings dying of treatable disease in a country that has every opportunity to do such. Yup. Pro-fetus is accurate.

I'll simplify this post for comprehension: "I don't understand what 'a right to life' means, but you'd better support socialism, or I'll call you a name."

:roll:

No sense repeating myself; post #25 addresses this line of "reasoning" pretty well.

 

[Sykes]

I find pro-fetus is more accurate than pro-birther.

And certainly it is more accurate than pro-life. People who are really prolife would attack the alarming lack of access to high quality basic health care in this nation. They would care about the postborn as much. I have yet to see evidence of this in the political realm of the (fingerquote)pro-life(fingerquote) movement.

I especially am disgusted in this regard to the people who use the name of Jesus. What would Jesus have to say about thousands of living breathing human beings dying of treatable disease in a country that has every opportunity to do such. Yup. Pro-fetus is accurate.

Disagreeing on terminology reminds me of Emo Phillips.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 

[year2late]

I'll simplify this post for comprehension: "I don't understand what 'a right to life' means, but you'd better support socialism, or I'll call you a name."

.

Your side calls them self a name "pro-life"

I am curious, why are you so offended by "pro-fetus"

Are you not pro-fetus?

 

[JayDubya]

Your side calls them self a name "pro-life"

By and large, the names "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not accurate for those who claim them.

However, of the subset of anti-abortion people who can accurately call themselves pro-life, supporters of the natural human right to life: whether or not one supports socialism is irrelevant to that issue. The natural human right to life does not imply anything about taking the property of others for you to use to pay someone for requested services.

I am curious, why are you so offended by "pro-fetus"

Why does stupidity that implies inaccurate things when used about me, offend me? For one thing, I don't do that kind of identity politics nonsense - I'm pro-equality, pro-supporting human rights.

I know how this works; when you say the inaccurate term "pro-choice," you mean to suggest anyone who disagrees with you dislikes freedom of choice. When you say the even dumber and less accurate "pro-birth" or "pro-fetus," you're implying that those you label are somehow anti everything else.

 

[nota bene]

Your side calls them self a name "pro-life"

I am curious, why are you so offended by "pro-fetus"

Are you not pro-fetus?

I am "pro-fetus." Also "pro-unborn baby" and "pro-born baby" and "pro-human life," including those who are inconvenient and very sick and very old. You? If you support rationed healthcare, which is coming, then I'd say you probably aren't.

 

[year2late]

By and large, the names "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not accurate for those who claim them.

However, of the subset of anti-abortion people who can accurately call themselves pro-life, supporters of the natural human right to life: whether or not one supports socialism is irrelevant to that issue. The natural human right to life does not imply anything about taking the property of others for you to use to pay someone for requested services.




Why does stupidity that implies inaccurate things when used about me, offend me? For one thing, I don't do that kind of identity politics nonsense - I'm pro-equality, pro-supporting human rights.

I know how this works; when you say the inaccurate term "pro-choice," you mean to suggest anyone who disagrees with you dislikes freedom of choice. When you say the even dumber and less accurate "pro-birth" or "pro-fetus," you're implying that those you label are somehow anti everything else.

So no you are the one to decide who is reallllllllllly pro life or pro choice. Good to know.

 

[JayDubya]

So no you are the one to decide who is reallllllllllly pro life or pro choice. Good to know.

Funny, you were the one just saying other people weren't really pro-life, calling them pro-fetus, and now you're saying this.

Hypocrisy much?

 

[year2late]

Funny, you were the one just saying other people weren't really pro-life, calling them pro-fetus, and now you're saying this.

Hypocrisy much?

Here is the difference. I can define the difference.

If someone is pro-life they are pro-life - life in and out of the womb - unless postborns are not life.

So if someone is not as fervent for life outside of the womb as inside of the womb - there is a disconnect.

On the other hand "pro-choice" is just speaking of choice and not about personally agreeing or disagreeing with abortion.

 

[JayDubya]

Here is the difference. I can define the difference.

If someone is pro-life they are pro-life - life in and out of the womb - unless postborns are not life.

When you find someone who thinks that abortion of unborn humans should be illegal but that aggressively killing born humans should be legal, do let me know.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to shear a newborn's body to pieces, or to inject it with a lethal dose of KCl, or to jab scissors into a newborn's neck, grind its brains, and suck them out.

In fact, I'm definitely sure about that. It's illegal to do those things in aggression to anyone after they're born.


If anyone opposed to abortion was advocating for those acts to be legal, you might have a point. Unfortunately for you, you sure as hell don't. Your "pro-birthers" don't exist, and you just make yourself look ignorant.

 

[nota bene]

Here is the difference. I can define the difference.

If someone is pro-life they are pro-life - life in and out of the womb - unless postborns are not life.

So if someone is not as fervent for life outside of the womb as inside of the womb - there is a disconnect.

On the other hand "pro-choice" is just speaking of choice and not about personally agreeing or disagreeing with abortion.

Oh, of course not. Being pro-choice has nothing to do with being pro-abortion. :roll:

Let me know by what method you measure the sincerity of others' beliefs. Do you study their CVs and check their charitable contributions? (What do you do if they don't declare these? Judge them "uncharitable"?) Is sincerity measured by volunteer efforts? If so, how many? Is one not enough? Should there be at least two?

 

[year2late]

Oh, of course not. Being pro-choice has nothing to do with being pro-abortion. :roll:

Let me know by what method you measure the sincerity of others' beliefs. Do you study their CVs and check their charitable contributions? (What do you do if they don't declare these? Judge them "uncharitable"?) Is sincerity measured by volunteer efforts? If so, how many? Is one not enough? Should there be at least two?

Who is pro-abortion? Your sarcasm shows you have zero understanding of what prochoice really means.

Choice means the ability to say YES or NO. Most pro-choice folks chose "NO".

Again....all the finger wagging and calling abortion murder and execution may browbeat one individual, but what would REALLY help is the access and availability of low cost safe and reliable birth control. Hell, the invention of a safe reliable accessible birth control for men. Can you imagine the effect of that???Abortions would drop even more drastically!

 

[Sykes]

You know what prevents more abortions than anything, even abstinence? Because people are no good with abstinence. We are sexual beings.

Free birth control. Abortion rates drop dramatically when birth control is free.

Access To Free Birth Control Causes Abortion Rate To Drop Dramatically: Study

 

[year2late]

You know what prevents more abortions than anything, even abstinence? Because people are no good with abstinence. We are sexual beings.

Free birth control. Abortion rates drop dramatically when birth control is free.

Access To Free Birth Control Causes Abortion Rate To Drop Dramatically: Study

Absofriggenlutely.

Yet many think it is the pro-life crowd wagging their fingers and calling them murderers and executioners that drop abortion rates.

 

[paddymcdougall]

You know what prevents more abortions than anything, even abstinence? Because people are no good with abstinence. We are sexual beings.

Free birth control. Abortion rates drop dramatically when birth control is free.

Access To Free Birth Control Causes Abortion Rate To Drop Dramatically: Study

Yeppers. And yet how many anti-abortion people are fighting for free contraception for all and full sex education in the schools? Abstinence only states generally have higher pregnancy and abortion rates in teens than states that have real sex ed.
Teen Pregnancies Highest In States With Abstinence-Only Policies | ThinkProgress

However, all this discussion of whether or not abortion is murder (I say not) is off the topic of the Op - which is the groups that are causing all the chaos should NOT be able to blame it on the clinic. They need to just not show up.

 

[Sykes]

 

[JayDubya]

Yeah, no. Show me the drug manufacturer that makes things for free and doesn't expect to be paid.

 

[SassySmartie]

This is my favorite comment.

You mean the anti-abortion people murdered him. Not "those people." Anti-abortion christians murdered him. Anti-abortion people murdered a doctor. I just want to be clear with you so you understand. Murder. The anti-abortion people murdered someone.

The quotes are even better in this article:

“The fact is that this is typical about what happens at the abortion clinic,” he said. “Abortion clinics are going to bring that sort of clientele. You’re not going to have a mad husband or a Shelley Shannon showing up at a dental office.”

Gietzen insisted with some vehemence that Shannon and Scott Roeder, the man who ultimately killed Tiller, shouldn’t be linked to his own anti-abortion activities. “We comply with the law,” he said. Shannon and Roeder, he said, “are law-breaking people.” You could say they’re on the pro-choice side: If we choose to kill it’s our choice to do whatever we want.”

[. . .]

And then he issued what sounded a lot like a threat. “Even a well-meaning dog will bite at some point in time if you keep antagonizing it,” Gietzen said.

Asked what he meant by that, Gietzen said, ”We have this concealed carry thing where half the people in Kansas are walking around with firearms.”

“The way this guy acts, I’m afraid that someone’s going to shoot him,” Gietzen continued, referring to the escort. “He’s asking for it. I don’t want for that to happen…It’s not good for the cause.”

Gietzen refused to say whether he or his fellow protesters are armed. “That’s not a polite question to ask an individual,” Gietzen said. “That’s why it’s concealed.”

 

[Spriggs05]

That is incredibly partisan. The answer is probably false however and although it may be true in a few cases, not the majority of pro lifers.
Contraception should be on offer in public places via vending machines such as this:

 

[molten_dragon]

I think that most people, regardless of their feelings on the abortion debate, would agree that this is one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said.

In addition, the groups say it is inappropriate for schoolchildren to see the protests and graphic signs associated with a clinic performing abortions.

Well here's an idea, if you don't want the school kids to see your graphic posters, quit holding up graphic posters when you protest.

 

[Fisher]

That is incredibly partisan. The answer is probably false however and although it may be true in a few cases, not the majority of pro lifers.
Contraception should be on offer in public places via vending machines such as this:

Is a "Jeans" condom made from denim with a levi's emblem on it?