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Another Nut with a Gun [W:578]

Re: Another Nut with a Gun

DebateChallenge said:
True. After all there was that shootout this past Sunday in New Jersey, and New Jersey has among the strictest gun control in the country. So you're right to say it doesn't work.
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:applaud :applaud :mrgreen:
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Lursa said:
:applaud :applaud :mrgreen:
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We had a illegal immigrant get into the country today.

Pack it up border patrol....you don't work. LOL
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
Is it actually hard to get a gun in New Jersey? Because when I plug "New Jersey gun store" into google maps I get five pages of results.

I think that right wingers tend to mistake these laws for "strict gun control" when they don't actually make it much harder to obtain a firearm.
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Ask Carol Bowne.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Lursa said:
So that's it for your debate?

Your analogy failed, as does your argument
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I was attempting to highlight the absurdity of your question.

"Why do you value bad guys over good guys" is a child's way of "debating" this. Get off your high horse, this is pathetic. I value the innocent victims of murderers, don't you?
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

If things aren't already bad enough, the dumb politicians in several states, legalize pot, resulting in more DUII violations and workplace screw ups.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
I was attempting to highlight the absurdity of your question.

"Why do you value bad guys over good guys" is a child's way of "debating" this. Get off your high horse, this is pathetic. I value the innocent victims of murderers, don't you?
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It wasnt absurd. You are choosing. You are choosing to put more people at risk, you are choosing a path that historically leads to more criminal activity...criminal activity that extends beyond the failures of their programs.

You are the one that would enable more gun violence and public safety risk. For decades if not for the foreseeable future.

So yes...then why should the people willing to protect themselves have less right to protect themselves from some stupid, useless, feel-good proposition?
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

tonyanzack said:
If things aren't already bad enough, the dumb politicians in several states, legalize pot, resulting in more DUII violations and workplace screw ups.
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Sources for both of those claims please

More? Definitely source the 'more'.

And then we can discuss how much those states have benefitted...individuals and the states.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

apdst said:
Yeah, let's make gun ownership illegal. I mean, the laws restricting gun ownership have worked great, so far.
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Let's not have laws at all, because criminals break laws.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Lursa said:
It wasnt absurd. You are choosing. You are choosing to put more people at risk, you are choosing a path that historically leads to more criminal activity...criminal activity that extends beyond the failures of their programs.

You are the one that would enable more gun violence and public safety risk. For decades if not for the foreseeable future.

So yes...then why should the people willing to protect themselves have less right to protect themselves from some stupid, useless, feel-good proposition?
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No, you are choosing to put more people at risk. Lax gun laws put more people at risk. Children die because of lax gun laws. Why would you make that choice!?
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
Let's not have laws at all, because criminals break laws.
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Why was the guy let out of jail? Obviously, he was a threat to society.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
No, you are choosing to put more people at risk. Lax gun laws put more people at risk. Children die because of lax gun laws. Why would you make that choice!?
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Strict gun laws worked great this time...lol
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Tahaij Wells...the primary shooter in this case...was on parole for killing a man...shooting him 3 times in the chest.

If Tahaij Wells was still in prison doing a mandatory minimum sentence of 40 years plus the 18 for murder, 16 people would not be shot today. The problem is NOT guns. There are some 300 million guns in the hands of some 120 million law abiding citizens.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
Are you claiming guns are immortal and if we stop selling them at stores the supply wont reduce at all? The ease of obtaining guns wouldn't change at all? Or maybe the black and white thinking is on the other side, you think my reference to attrition means every single gun would vanish from the earth.
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Guns will never vanish from the earth, period. They are a vital tool for good men and women to stop evil. That doesn't even take into account, how much fun it is to shoot. It's mentally changeling and great therapy. There is also the competition aspect, from the Olympics, to police, military and civilian programs.
I subscribe to more guns in the hands of good people, equals less crime by bad actors. Example, the man outside the church with his AR15 in Sutherlland Springs, Tx. who shot and wounded the bad actor, church shooter.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

vegas giants said:
Better not perfect
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We will never have perfect. Human error was grossly culpable in five different ways, regarding Nick Cruz in Florida.
A lot of things need to change, but gun regulations for lawful citizens, should not be part of it.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
No, you are choosing to put more people at risk. Lax gun laws put more people at risk. Children die because of lax gun laws. Why would you make that choice!?
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What lax gun laws? Please link any of the latest school shootings, or the one in NJ, to lax gun laws. NJ has some of the strictest gun laws in the US. That convicted felon was prohibited from owning a gun. He got one and used it. :doh

The recent school shootings: kid kills 10, wounds more with a shotgun and 6 shot revolver...2 of the most basic firearms that people own and would never be banned.

Cruz, or TX church shooter: in both cases the laws were in place but not followed up on.

What gun laws are these people 'getting around?' Be specific.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

VanceMack said:
Tahaij Wells...the primary shooter in this case...was on parole for killing a man...shooting him 3 times in the chest.

If Tahaij Wells was still in prison doing a mandatory minimum sentence of 40 years plus the 18 for murder, 16 people would not be shot today. The problem is NOT guns. There are some 300 million guns in the hands of some 120 million law abiding citizens.
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I think 300 million is a very conservative estimate.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
They can last a long time and sometimes they don't. And the ones in the hands of these responsible, law-abiding citizens tend to stay there. Criminals can't just walk into a wal-mart and get one. The availability of guns reduces over time.
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How so?

Deuce said:
I was attempting to highlight the absurdity of your question.

"Why do you value bad guys over good guys" is a child's way of "debating" this. Get off your high horse, this is pathetic. I value the innocent victims of murderers, don't you?
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I sure do and that's all the more reason to have more good people, armed. More guns in their hands, means less crime.

Deuce said:
No, you are choosing to put more people at risk. Lax gun laws put more people at risk. Children die because of lax gun laws. Why would you make that choice!?
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Children are not dying due to lax gun laws. They are dying due to lax mental health laws and human error in dealing with criminals and nutjobs.
It's not about gun laws, it's a human problem, not a gun problem. Your disconnect on this, is evident.
 
Re: Another Nut with a Gun

Deuce said:
Let's not have laws at all, because criminals break laws.
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This old argument again.

This is an example of a false dichotomy, and a misunderstanding of what laws do.

Laws do not prevent crime. They do not cause crime. They define what is a crime.

The logical extension of the argument that all laws are useless because criminals break laws (in order to justify passing new unconstitutional laws), is that state of government known as anarchy. There is no law, no constitution, no police, no army, no safe haven to conduct an economy, etc. It is quite literally the law of the jungle. This is what all democracies quickly dissolve into, to be followed shortly thereafter by a dictatorship or oligarchy as one faction gains control from the others.

A republic is a government by a central highest law, or constitution. This constitution is formed by the people under that government. If the constitution is no longer honored by the people, it opens the door to dictatorship or an oligarchy form of government.

It is the constitution that protects the 'little guy'. It is the constitution that protects a society from their own government enough to prosper It is the constitution that describes what law or laws may be passed and by what method.

If you pass a law that turns peaceful, constructive citizens into criminal acts, you cease to get peace. You cease to get profit. You often instead get a civil war.

If you push gun control far enough, this is what WILL happen. Are you sure you want this? People have an inherent right to protect themselves. That includes protecting themselves from their own government when it abandons the concept of a republic.

Banning guns will not stop crime under present law. It will also not stop people from getting or making guns and ammo. The free market is immortal. You can't kill it. It will always be there, even if its driven into the black market.

School shootings happen in 'gun free zones', where guns are banned completely (except law enforcement). Such mass murders do not happen at gun ranges.

The United States currently enjoys one of the lower murder rates in the world. We have some 300 million guns. If guns cause murders, why the discrepancy? Many other nations have a much higher murder than we do, yet ban guns. Why the discrepancy?

The United States is organized as a federated republic. It is NOT a democracy. We have a constitution for each State and a Constitution of the United States. These documents do not grant rights. They acknowledge some of the rights that are already there and prevent the government from interfering with them.

Among those rights is the inherent right Man has to self defense. Inteference with that right by requiring registries for guns (to make it convenient for the government to seize them at will), by limiting guns by type, make, or design, limiting the size of a magazine in a gun, or any other restriction such as bump stocks, the length of a shotgun barrel, etc. is a violation of the Constitution of the United States and of Man's inherent right to self defense, even against his own government.
 
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