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Another Good Guy with a Gun...

So if a full auto Gatling auto-cannon didn't have recoil, you would be OK with putting it on sale at WalMart?

That's not the subject. The subject is that an AR presents numerous advantages over a pistol, especially to smaller people and the less experienced.

You're the one selling Formula Ones. That's pistols. High speed, low drag, center mass while maintaining a proper sight picture and avoiding signature blind. Only a couple rounds, so they better land or you're totally screwed. The pistol is the Lamborghini of firearms. The AR is the Hyundai. And you want everyone in a Formula One.
 
What are you talking about?

If you are measuring civilian gun ownership and civil crime rates, which those stats are doing, you are proving my point.


Well..whats your point? Do you really think the US is more dangerous than Syria?

Do you think that the gun death statistic means that people should move to Syria where they will be safer than the US?

Please answer that.
 
Despite the NRA's lobbying to freeze all further research into gun violence, some research has still been going on. The point was to stop the light of science from being shed on the matter, so that the GOP could keep offering thoughts and prayers after massacres and keep it at that. Although we still don't have all the answers yet, we have learned more since then, despite the freeze.


In 2017, a committee of emergency medicine physicians set out their own firearms research agenda. It’s extensive, so I won’t list every question, but the known unknowns include: How is gun violence prevention different from other kinds of violence prevention? What kind of data reporting would help? What is the epidemiology of firearm suicide? Does social media make assault with guns worse? Do certain locations attract gun violence, like bars, or parks? What are the signs in someone about to commit mass gun violence? What kinds of security and infrastructure prevent a mass shooting? What kinds of characteristics, like buying guns or high-capacity magazines, correlate with mass shootings? These seem like good things to know.

In 2018, an editorial in the International Journal of Epidemiology proposed that epidemiologists, too, could play an important role in reducing gun violence in the US, if they could simply get at the data. After all, the authors pointed out, just owning a gun is strongly associated with injury and death by firearm—suicide, homicide, and accident. The US, the editorial goes on to say, had the highest number of firearm homicides of any wealthy nation in 2015—ten times the number of the next four countries on the list combined. Why? Dunno. No data. Congress, lobbied by the NRA, has frozen all funding for further research....

That’s the bad news. The good news is that the 1996 NRA-freeze didn’t put an end to gun violence work completely. It continued. And it learned a few things since.... So as the public policy researcher Philip Cook says in a 2018 review of firearms control policy and history in the journal Criminology and Public Policy, it is indeed still possible to know facts about guns and how to reduce their violent use.

For one thing: Guns are more deadly than other weapons. “Duh,” you are thinking, but consider why that’s important. In crimes of passion, or inebriation, the choice of weapon is secondary to intent. If someone impulsively determines to commit violence, the relative deadliness of their weapon of convenience matters—to the outcome and to the legal response. So it makes sense to try to reduce gun access in general.

For two: The same goes for assault and suicide. If people have access to guns, they’re more likely to use them when they attempt to harm others or themselves. One survey of inmates in state prisons who’d used guns in their crimes asked where they’d gotten them; barely one in 10 had bought their own. The rest had begged, borrowed, or stolen them. If they hadn’t been able to get a gun, they wouldn’t have used it in the crime.

And here’s a really cool part. Three specific policies, when implemented in states, reduced gun homicide rates. Simple moves here showed marked decreases: Restricting the right to carry a concealed weapon, implementing waiting periods on the purchase of firearms (a “cooling-off period”), and denying gun ownership to people convicted of domestic violence. People who are violent to partners or family members often go on to be violent to strangers.

In fact, a domestic-violence ban and background checks that take mental health into account have seen bipartisan support in the past, even in the face of NRA lobbying...

What’s important here, though, is that this presidential administration has consistently treated science and data as a nuisance, as something to ignore or mischaracterize in pursuit of policies that serve corporate or cultural interests. It’s an approach with murderous outcomes. As is the case with climate change, with vaccines, and—despite Texas Senator John Cornyn’s tweet to the contrary—homelessness and gun violence, scientists have been presenting policymakers with viable solutions for years. But the problem hasn’t budged. It’s big. It’s squishy. It’s just about politics, not facts."

How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists | WIRED
 
Well..whats your point? Do you really think the US is more dangerous than Syria?

Do you think that the gun death statistic means that people should move to Syria where they will be safer than the US?

Please answer that.

If you include ALL firearms, then Syria has more firearms per capita than the US. They are even free to use artillery. It seems you should be the one thinking about moving there.
 
Despite the NRA's lobbying to freeze all further research into gun violence, some research has still been going on. The point was to stop the light of science from being shed on the matter, so that the GOP could keep offering thoughts and prayers after massacres and keep it at that. Although we still don't have all the answers yet, we have learned more since then, despite the freeze.

most scientists have zero training in criminology or constitutional law. Most of the alleged scientists who are propagandists for gun control are economists. And what was banned, was using tax dollars to create anti gun propaganda by a government agency that has no real expertise in these issues (CDC)
 
That's not the subject. The subject is that an AR presents numerous advantages over a pistol, especially to smaller people and the less experienced.

The Vegas shooter killed or injured almost 600 people in a very short period of time with those things. You can't do that with a pistol.

Forget inexperience. Which would you choose if you were a terrorist or a psychopath?
 
The Vegas shooter killed or injured almost 600 people in a very short period of time with those things. You can't do that with a pistol.

Forget inexperience. Which would you choose if you were a terrorist or a psychopath?


many were victims of trampling and he could have killed far more with explosives or his airplane
 
The Vegas shooter killed or injured almost 600 people in a very short period of time with those things. You can't do that with a pistol.

Forget inexperience. Which would you choose if you were a terrorist or a psychopath?

That moron woulda killed tens times as many with controlled semi auto fire. Him being an idiot and employing auto fire saved dozens of lives. Auto fire is for suppression, not inflicting casualties. It's terrible at inflicting casualties.

A little breath control and semi auto fire would be ten times the dead.
 
most scientists have zero training in criminology or constitutional law. Most of the alleged scientists who are propagandists for gun control are economists. And what was banned, was using tax dollars to create anti gun propaganda by a government agency that has no real expertise in these issues (CDC)

Epidemiologists study all sorts of things: from HIV and smoking to gun violence and the effects of pasteurization. Very few of the ones doing the epidemiology on HIV or smoking are clinical specialists in HIV care or lung cancer. Their jobs is statistics and number analysis, looking for causes, effects, and correlations. Not sure why you would want them to be specialists in criminology, constitutional law, sniping, or any other such thing, for their work on gun violence to count.

If they find something that is currently constitutional to be a public health hazard, does that automatically invalidate their findings? Can something be Constitutional AND ever still pose public health hazards?
 
That moron woulda killed tens times as many with controlled semi auto fire. Him being an idiot and employing auto fire saved dozens of lives. Auto fire is for suppression, not inflicting casualties. It's terrible at inflicting casualties.

A little breath control and semi auto fire would be ten times the dead.

So we were talking about if he just had a pistol....

Focus.
 
That moron woulda killed tens times as many with controlled semi auto fire. Him being an idiot and employing auto fire saved dozens of lives. Auto fire is for suppression, not inflicting casualties. It's terrible at inflicting casualties.

A little breath control and semi auto fire would be ten times the dead.
I can see you are wise in the ways of fire control

absolutely true
 
many were victims of trampling and he could have killed far more with explosives or his airplane

You are getting yourself a little bit confused, it seems. We were talking about if he only had a pistol or a knife. That is the point here.
 
Epidemiologists study all sorts of things: from HIV and smoking to gun violence and the effects of pasteurization. Very few of the ones doing the epidemiology on HIV or smoking are clinical specialists in HIV care or lung cancer. Their jobs is statistics and number analysis, looking for causes, effects, and correlations. Not sure why you would want them to be specialists in criminology, constitutional law, sniping, or any other such thing, for their work to count.

If they find something that is currently constitutional to be a public health hazard, does that automatically invalidate their findings? Can something be Constitutional AND ever still pose public health hazards?

when they start with the premise that guns are bad and work backwards, its a joke

here is the deal

there is no public benefit to cancer

no public benefit to second hand smoke

there is a huge public benefit to honest people being armed

the anti gun researchers never ever take that into account
 
You are getting yourself a little bit confused, it seems. We were talking about if he only had a pistol or a knife. That is the point here.

if he had bolt action rifles with scopes and fire discipline he could have killed many more. same if he had fire control discipline without the silly bump stocks.
 
So we were talking about if he just had a pistol....

Focus.

I'd kill more than he did. That's for sure. He was a moron employing auto fire to inflict casualties.
 
I'd kill more than he did. That's for sure. He was a moron employing auto fire to inflict casualties.

So you think a pistol can do more damage than an AR15? Seriously?
 
So you think a pistol can do more damage than an AR15? Seriously?

He employed auto fire. I will absolutely outperform auto fire with a pistol, even my own auto fire.
 
when they start with the premise that guns are bad and work backwards, its a joke

Where did you hear they did that?

here is the deal

there is no public benefit to cancer

no public benefit to second hand smoke

there is a huge public benefit to honest people being armed

the anti gun researchers never ever take that into account

There is a huge public benefit to honest people driving too. Does that mean we should take away all DMV requirements and traffic laws?
 
So you think a pistol can do more damage than an AR15? Seriously?

depends on the environment. If I have a pistol in an elevator and you have a rifle, you won't win. If we are on opposite ends of a football field, you will have a slight edge. If its 400 meters, you will have a big advantage
 
He employed auto fire. I will absolutely outperform auto fire with a pistol, even my own auto fire.

Wait. So you think that sitting up in that hotel room with just a pistol you would outperform the guy with the AR15s?
 
depends on the environment. If I have a pistol in an elevator and you have a rifle, you won't win. If we are on opposite ends of a football field, you will have a slight edge. If its 400 meters, you will have a big advantage

And if I'm in the crowd with a pistol, I outperform him by ten times. No doubt. He was an idiot.
 
depends on the environment. If I have a pistol in an elevator and you have a rifle, you won't win. If we are on opposite ends of a football field, you will have a slight edge. If its 400 meters, you will have a big advantage

So what do you need for home defense?
 
And if I'm in the crowd with a pistol, I outperform him by ten times. No doubt. He was an idiot.

If you're in the crowd, you would go down faster than you could turn your head. Only the AR15 can create such battlefield type damage.
 
Wait. So you think that sitting up in that hotel room with just a pistol you would outperform the guy with the AR15s?

I think Eco would. I believe I would too. and I am certain that if Eco had 12 rifles like that ass did, Eco would rack up far more hits. the bump fire was a waste of ammo
 
Wait. So you think that sitting up in that hotel room with just a pistol you would outperform the guy with the AR15s?

If he's auto fire, maybe. If I'm in the crowd, there's no comparison. For every ten I kill, he'll wound ten. In the end, he's an auto accident and I'm a plane crash.
 
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