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To me what you're saying just sounds like some jackass saying that as long as some women dress slutty we shouldn't do anything about rape... It's beyond sick.
Of course there are... Not sure what weight you think that has in our debate.
Nobody is proposing sitting around boo-hooing anything... Not sure where you get that angle from. We're talking about whether or not our society should fight against discrimination or not. You are arguing that it should not.... Right?
For about 10 years I ran the professional services departments in a couple different software companies. Then I got bored of that and went to law school a year ago.
So you are the standard for 300 plus million people all over the nation? Amazing!!!!!
I have to give it to the conservatives in this thread - you have all become VERY good at disguising your support of discrimination without actually saying the word discrimination.
Because you keep saying that racism is the only reason that blacks don't get as many job interviews as whites.
So far, the strategy used to fight discrimination hasn't worked for the whole of the black community.
I'm thinking you don't have alotta contact with the brothers and can only form an opinion on a study done by a bunch of white hand wringers, whom are overcome with white guilt and feel obligated to come up with excuses as to why blacks are less successful than whites and the conclusion they keep coming back to is...it's whitey's fault.
Let's revisit this subject when you have some more real world experience in the working class; and no, college isn't the real world.
No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.
We've only given a very half assed attempt. Only one company has every been penalized under AA ever... Back in the first few years after the Civil Right Act when a government contractor refused to get rid of their formal policy of not hiring black people. That's it.
Uh, no. I lived in DC for 10 years. I was the assistant director of a program that worked with kids on probation there for 3 years...
Uh, what? Re-read the block you replied to... I've worked for a total of about 18 years. 10 of it running entire departments at software companies. I've been on the committees for hiring about 150-200 people and I've personally hired about 50...
Honestly, man to man, on my honor, I swear to you that I absolutely want to see racism die off. In fact, if I had to choose between one scenario where racism was completely erased, but Republicans won every election in the nation for 40 years and another scenario where racism continued as is, but Democrats won every election in the nation for 40 years, truthfully I would opt for the first scenario over the later. In my view it is hands down the most serious cause of very real human suffering in this country.
That's just the standard blanket explanation for everything the right uses for everything- "if something is wrong, it must be the government's fault", that is not a real argument.
Just as quoting from air is no real argument. Use some genuine quotes and then you might have a debate. Do you feel all government is good or are problems frequently the government's fault?
Most people realize the need for cooperative government, but are also aware that once given power, it tends to corrupt. Lord Acton famously pointed this out generations ago and, apart from Leftists, most people recognize the truth in that today.
Just as quoting from air is no real argument. Use some genuine quotes and then you might have a debate. Do you feel all government is good or are problems frequently the government's fault?
Most people realize the need for cooperative government, but are also aware that once given power, it tends to corrupt. Lord Acton famously pointed this out generations ago and, apart from Leftists, most people recognize the truth in that today.
Government, like corporations, can do both good and bad. Corporations are better at producing the best goods at the lowest cost, but they don't represent people beyond that scope. Government represents the interests of the people, but can be inefficient. So you pick the right tool for the right job and you use them to keep one another in check. Just ceding control of the world to corporations as right wingers push for would obviously be a total disaster.
Sounds to me like the study was rigged to have the desired outcome.
When someone starts with that "I swear to you".....Its bull****. They will take you for a ride
Colin Powell endorsed Obama for the same reason that 95% of blacks voted for him. Because of race, pure and simple. A perfect illustration of the double standard in this country.
You can't legislate what is in some men's hearts.
however, the meme that racism is a bastion solely existent on the right, or a prevue of corporations, or in business in general if that business is ran by a white businessman, is pure pap.
We have come a long way, do we have more to go? sure. But the recent sliming with racism at every turn as a tactic to shut down debate on policy of a sitting administration solely because his policies are failing is what it should be seen for, excuse, and deflection. And shameful at that.
Do you just not understand how science works or what? That's what you do- eliminate all the variables other than the one you want to study to see what impact that one has.
I know that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome. i.e. global warming research.
People will continue to talk about and debate race and racism so long as they remain relevant to experiences of many Americans. Attempts by conservatives to sweep the issue under the rug by accusing those who bring it up of "pulling the race card" and similar arguments will not stop the discussion from happening. In fact, it is those attempts that make conversations about race and racism more frequent and intense than they have to be. There's nothing like covering one's ears to a reality that one doesn't want to face that inspires people to shout louder.teamsoil, the field study you presented is interesting, and I don't think that anyone in these forums would say that unequivocally racism doesn't exist. You can't legislate what is in some men's hearts. however, the meme that racism is a bastion solely existent on the right, or a prevue of corporations, or in business in general if that business is ran by a white businessman, is pure pap. And studies that try and make that correlation often start with their desired premise in mind and therefore it is no surprise when their results show exactly what they wanted to show.
We have come a long way, do we have more to go? sure. But the recent sliming with racism at every turn as a tactic to shut down debate on policy of a sitting administration solely because his policies are failing is what it should be seen for, excuse, and deflection. And shameful at that.
j-mac
People will continue to talk about and debate race and racism so long as they remain relevant to experiences of many Americans.
I know that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome. i.e. global warming research.
Yep, they were shown to have had a long standing policy of not hiring minorities and were fined $40 million.
No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.
He ought to apologize and save what is left of his dignity. Even IF Tea Party organizations tend to have more racists among their ranks (and that is a big IF), that still doesn't translate into "Tea Party politicians want to see us hanging from trees and going back to the old Jim Crow laws." Point out all of the specific instances of right-wing racism all you want (the Birther movement, some Tea Party people with bigoted signs, radio hosts taking racist jabs at Obama, etc.), but it is foolish to smear an entire political movement with the R-word.
“Well, I wasn't talking about the entire tea party. I think the tea party is absolutely right when they call for increased transparency in government, when they call for a cutback on excessive government spending. I am deeply concerned about some elements of the tea party who are extremist and who have reflected a mentality going back to the John Birch society, going back to George Wallace's Dixiecrats,” Carson said.
rather than whine about him daring to express his opinion, why don't you instead share with us what is found wrong about his observations
Why do you persist in advancing this lie? Well, I do know why, you're more interesting in advancing a partisan talking point than you are in representing the truth.
Which was one of the stupidest judgments I've ever seen. A&F purposely designed their marketing to reach a specific demographic group - white upper class young people.
This is like telling a Chinese restaurant that they cannot favor hiring Asian people. Who wants to go to a Chinese restaurant staffed by red-headed Scotsman wearing kilts?
Rep. Andre Carson DID NOT call the entire Tea Party movement racist. What he said was:
How posters to this or any of the other threads discussing this matter could have missed this clarifying rebuttal somewhat baffles me. Perhaps it could be that while Republicans/Conservatives are quick to condemn Rep. Carson for his commentary, folks failed to seek out exactly what was said and instead did the very thing some have accussed others of doing here - painting people with a broad brush.
...is an important and valid question to ask. Clearly, not everyone involved with the Tea Party movement are racist. However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are racist elements within the Tea Party movement. As haymarket has pointed out, there have been members of the Tea Party movement who have presented racist signs or wore T-shirts with questionable racist comments on them.
And if Tea Party members haven't said things that can be clearly defined as racist, some among them have made statements have racist undertones. Take Rep. Joe Walsh, for example. Recently in a MSNBC.com with Martin Bashir, Rep. Walsh was asked about the allegations of racism within the Tea Party movement. When confronted directly on the matter asking specifically if Walsh believed people voted for President Obama just because he was Black, Walsh replied "because it was a historical moment in this nation's history". (You can watch the video exchange here.) Although Rep. Walsh's answer was correct, it gives the impression that that's the only reason some people voted for the nation's 44th President - because he was Black. However, it does bring into question why Rep. Walsh is so upset with Pres. Obama. He says that it's a matter of the President's "failed policies", but when you listen to him in the video he gives far more respect to Congress assembling on behalf of foreign heads of state than he does his nation's president. This tells me there's more going on here than just a person being upset over policy matters. But I invite the readers/viewers to watch the video interview and really listen to what's said and make your own conclusion.
It would be a pretty good bet that there were many jobs that had little to do with the marketing end people see. Now this part is really none of my business. If their marketing is flawed, not my problem but I'm not sure why they would feel that things that upper class white people like wouldn't appeal to upper class black people.
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