An open letter to Mr. khizr-khan

[FieldTheorist]

Mr. Khan disgraced his son by allowing himself to be used as a DNC pawn, and his son as a poster child selling the idea that a Muslim soldiers' service us somehow greater than others. The article speaks for itself.

The DNC found a symphatec immigrant and used him like a $2.00 whore.

An open letter to Mr. Khizr Khan | Fox News

Tawdry props are pretty common place. Trump had a whole classless, highly bigoted sequence of people ranting against illegal immigrants, implying that they were all violent murderers. Trump also disgraced himself when he implied than McCain wasn't to be taken seriously because he was a prisoner of war.

In the list of tawdry props, this wasn't a very serious tawdry prop. It was a guy whose son actually died a hero to his country, and it actually made a point about immigration.

There's really nothing interesting left to say here, other than at least half of Republicans are operating with the logical side of their brain turned of. Reagan, Bush I, Dole, Bush II, McCain, or Romney could never have made the terrible, horrible comments that Trump has made. In ten or twenty years, when neoliberalism has subsided and the country has stabilized, I'm assuming that a lot of these people will look back at what Trump said with general horror. We'll see though.

 

[Deuce]

Why do you assume that I care about Trump's poll numbers? Just because I am disgusted by a man dragging the good name of his dead son through the political mud hole?

Hey, Mrs. Smith is a nice lady feeling a lot of grief don't talk about her like that.

 

[Mycroft]

Hey, Mrs. Smith is a nice lady feeling a lot of grief don't talk about her like that.

Yeah, yeah...I keep on topic, unlike you.

I'm not talking about a "lady" bald-faced lying to another lady. I'm talking about a "man" using the memory of his dead son to disingenuously raise a strawman against another man...all because he stands to lose some money.

 

[Geoist]

Mr. Khan disgraced his son by allowing himself to be used as a DNC pawn

Did Patricia Smith disgrace her son by being used as an RNC pawn?

 

[EvaPeron]

Reading through that... Made me dumber I'm sure.

Another journey through the warped and precarious mind of the Trump supporter.

A true American gets what this letter is about. The sacrifice ALL of our ancestors made should not be made in vein. But, there are many Muslims in America who not only have no desire to assimilate, but wish to live under Sharia Law.

I am an American who will not let that happen. I believe that was what his letter was all about. Not insulting the man but reminding him that America is not his to turn into his version of what he wants it to be. He is here to live and assimilate and if he doesn't like it then he should leave. I want the America I grew up with for my children - not his version of America. And that was the reminder given to Mr. Khan. If you think we are warped and precarious then that is fine - I can handle any insults thrown at me but what I can't handle is allowing Sharia law or Radical Muslims to turn my country into something else.

 

[EvaPeron]

This is... amazing. Trump and the GOP invited a grieving mother to sob on the stage about the son she lost... and to blame Hillary Clinton personally, saying she should be in prison for it.

But tissue-skinned Donald goes all PMS if another grieving family talks about their loss and criticizes Trump for ignoring the sacrifice when he demeans his, and their, religion. To Trump, that was a "vicious attack against" him. Having a grief-stricken family call Hillary basically a murderer and scream that she should be in prison for her son's death, hey, in Trumpsville that is A-okay!

Double standard, anyone?

The double standard is that the grieving mother on the RNC side was given less than a minute of air time and publicity and the grieving family on the DNC side has been given hours - Double Standard anyone?

 

[Jetboogieman]

A true American gets what this letter is about.

:roll:

The sacrifice ALL of our ancestors made should not be made in vein. But, there are many Muslims in America who not only have no desire to assimilate, but wish to live under Sharia Law.

And the sacrifice of those ancestors makes it possible for people to hold those views whether you like it or not :shrug:.

America is not a monolith, America is not plurality, and neither is Islam, as long as a person is not willing to impose their values by use of criminality or terrorism, they are more than free to hold certain viewpoints that I may not agree with... And you spit on the sacrifice of those ancestors when you insist that "Well... this is a free country, except for those dirty Muslims, their views, more than any other should be totally excluded from society".

I am an American who will not let that happen.

The First Amendment is not up to you.

I believe that was what his letter was all about.

The letter, as I have already stated, is a case study into the warped and precarious mind of the Trump Supporter.

Not insulting the man but reminding him that America is not his to turn into his version of what he wants it to be.

Ah, so you know Mr. Khans every belief then?

YOu believe Mr. Khan wishes to impose Sharia Law on the entire population?

He is here to live and assimilate and if he doesn't like it then he should leave.

Ah yes, that's the American way, Free Speech, Religious liberty (except if I don't like it, or I imagine it in my own mind).

I want the America I grew up with for my children - not his version of America.

Well you're **** out of luck there.

The only constant is change and Islam or no Islam, America has changed and will continue to change.

And that was the reminder given to Mr. Khan.

No, it was a idiotic rant at Mr. Khan.

If you think we are warped and precarious then that is fine

That's good, I was really worried you wouldn't approve for a second there.

but what I can't handle is allowing Sharia law or Radical Muslims to turn my country into something else.

Same here, but they're actually entitled to that belief if they're a Muslim that holds it, same as the backward Christians in America that want to teach creationism, abstinence only sex ed, ban abortion and ban gay marriage. But they should be inhibited from enacting all their desires because as the constitution already spells out, it is the law of the land.

And If they attempt to enact that change through criminality or terrorism, then they must be stopped with the full force of government to defend the rights and order of the citizenry.

 

[DiAnna]

The double standard is that the grieving mother on the RNC side was given less than a minute of air time and publicity and the grieving family on the DNC side has been given hours - Double Standard anyone?

Did Hillary Clinton have a press conference complaining about how this grieving mother had "viciously attacked her", then gone on to insult her family repeatedly for a week?

Donald Trump created this monster in the media. Not his campaign, not his supporters, not Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump.

 

[ashurbanipal]

I'm curious about something. For those who agree that Khizr-Kahn's speech was inappropriate, what should he do about Trump's comments?

 

[Mycroft]

Did Hillary Clinton have a press conference complaining about how this grieving mother had "viciously attacked her", then gone on to insult her family repeatedly for a week?

Donald Trump created this monster in the media. Not his campaign, not his supporters, not Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump.

Hillary went to an interview and, in so many words, called the lady a memory-challenged person. That's actually worse than what Trump did to that guy who made **** up about him.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm curious about something. For those who agree that Khizr-Kahn's speech was inappropriate, what should he do about Trump's comments?

Just what he did when his BS went down the crapper: Delete his website that described the kind of work he does and fade into the woodwork.

I hope he stays there.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Just what he did when his BS went down the crapper: Delete his website that described the kind of work he does and fade into the woodwork.

I hope he stays there.

Hmmm...so, by parity of reasoning, if, say, President Obama said that all fundamentalists should be denied entry to the U.S., or be put in internment camps (or remarks similar to those made by Trump, only about fundamentalist Christians), fundamentalist parents whose children were killed fighting for our country should delete their websites and fade into the woodwork?

 

[Mycroft]

Hmmm...so, by parity of reasoning, if, say, President Obama said that all fundamentalists should be denied entry to the U.S., or be put in internment camps (or remarks similar to those made by Trump, only about fundamentalist Christians), fundamentalist parents whose children were killed fighting for our country should delete their websites and fade into the woodwork?

LOL!!

Actually, yes...if Obama said all those things, then HE should delete his website and fade into the woodwork. But he hasn't said anything like those things and neither has Trump.

You really aren't very good at this "parity of reasoning" thing, are you?

 

[ashurbanipal]

Actually, yes...if Obama said all those things, then HE should delete his website and fade into the woodwork. But he hasn't said anything like those things and neither has Trump.

I wrote: "or remarks similar to those made by Trump, only about fundamentalist Christians." So, whatever you take Trump's claims to be, that's the question. If Obama made those same claims against fundamentalist Christians, the fundamentalist parents of sons or daughters who died fighting for our country should delete their websites and fade into the woodwork? This is a straightforward question, posed in eighth-grade English.

Anyway, see:

Donald Trump: Ban all Muslim travel to U.S. - CNNPolitics.com

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday for barring all Muslims from entering the United States.
"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.

Trump, who has previously called for surveillance against mosques and said he was open to establishing a database for all Muslims living in the U.S., made his latest controversial call in a news release.

See also:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

You really aren't very good at this "parity of reasoning" thing, are you?

We shall see. The evidence so far is that at least you are not. You got the instantiation of variables wrong in your answer, which is basically the same as the schoolyard "I know you are, but what am I?" It is perhaps needful to say that schoolyard tactics are clearly not examples of good reasoning.

 

[Mycroft]

I wrote: "or remarks similar to those made by Trump, only about fundamentalist Christians." So, whatever you take Trump's claims to be, that's the question. If Obama made those same claims against fundamentalist Christians, the fundamentalist parents of sons or daughters who died fighting for our country should delete their websites and fade into the woodwork? This is a straightforward question, posed in eighth-grade English.

Anyway, see:

Donald Trump: Ban all Muslim travel to U.S. - CNNPolitics.com



See also:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration



We shall see. The evidence so far is that at least you are not. You got the instantiation of variables wrong in your answer, which is basically the same as the schoolyard "I know you are, but what am I?" It is perhaps needful to say that schoolyard tactics are clearly not examples of good reasoning.

The part of that article that you seem to ignore...probably as deliberately as Mr. Khan and a whole raft of lefties...is this, "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on". And Trump has said nothing about putting people in internment camps as you suggest.

So yeah...when you pluck stuff out of context and outright make **** up, you really AREN'T very good at reasoning.

 

[DiAnna]

Hillary went to an interview and, in so many words, called the lady a memory-challenged person. That's actually worse than what Trump did to that guy who made **** up about him.

Link please.

IIRC, all Hillary said when asked about Pat Smith's allegation that Hillary was a murderer who should be in prison was, in effect, that Pat Smith was a grieving mother who lost a son, and she was entitled to say what she felt, but that she (Hillary) disagreed with her.

 

[Mycroft]

Link please.

IIRC, all Hillary said when asked about Pat Smith's allegation that Hillary was a murderer who should be in prison was, in effect, that Pat Smith was a grieving mother who lost a son, and she was entitled to say what she felt, but that she (Hillary) disagreed with her.

I'll do even better than giving you a link. I'll quote the interview.

CHRIS WALLACE: One of the most dramatic moments in the Republican convention was when pat Smith, the mother of Sean Smith, one of the people who died in Benghazi, stood up before the convention and blamed you for her son’s death.

PAT SMITH: I blame Hillary Clinton personally for the death of my son. That’s personally.

WALLACE: She and the father of Tyrone Woods both say that on the day that their sons’ bodies were returned to the United States that you came up to them and you said it was all because of a video, not terrorism. Now, I know some of the other families disagree with this, and I know you deny it. The question is, why would they make that up?

HILLARY CLINTON: Chris, my heart goes out to both of them. Losing a child under any circumstances, especially in this case, two State Department employees, extraordinary men both of them, two CIA contractors gave their lives protecting our country, our values. I understand the grief and the incredible sense of loss that can motivate that. As other members of families who lost loved ones have said, that’s not what they heard, I don’t hold any ill feeling for someone who in that moment may not fully recall everything that was or wasn’t said.

http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.c...-fox-email-interview-liz-spayd-public-editor/

 

[ashurbanipal]

The part of that article that you seem to ignore...probably as deliberately as Mr. Khan and a whole raft of lefties...is this, "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on".

Which could be quite a long time, obviously. It also ignores the fact that the screening process is already quite vigorous.

And Trump has said nothing about putting people in internment camps as you suggest.

Well, I did not mean to suggest he had, but I acknowledge my post could be read that way, and for that, I apologize. But to be clear, I acknowledge Trump has actually repudiated that idea. Some of his supporters, on the other hand...

Anyway, you haven't answered my question.

 

[DiAnna]

I'll do even better than giving you a link. I'll quote the interview.

Thanks. That pretty much proves that you took considerable liberty with your *cough* interpretation of what she said, after having been called a murderer who should be in prison. :thumbs:

 

[fmw]

There is really no reason to attack this guy. Yes, he politicized his sons death, but he is hardly unique in that regard. Trump should have been the bigger man and just said something like: "These are grieving parents who lost a son in a war I opposed. We disagree and out of respect for the heroism of their lost son that is all I am going to say on the matter." But for some reason, Trump seems incapable of common decency and political intelligence. Trump kept this issue alive and made leftist folk heroes out of these two because he just cant seem to know when to just shut his mouth.

Trump simply cannot control himself. That is why he is unfit to be president. Hillary is a lying incompetent. That is why she is unfit to be president. Seems like a trend. We're going to get yet another round of having a president unfit for the office.

 

[bubbabgone]

I'm curious about something. For those who agree that Khizr-Kahn's speech was inappropriate, what should he do about Trump's comments?

Glad to hear you bring this up because I didn't hear what Trump said about Khan.
I've asked this before to no one in particular but since you raised it again I'll ask you.
What did Trump actually say?
If you can't remember, just tell me what the worst thing was that Trump said.

 

[Mycroft]

Which could be quite a long time, obviously.

Doesn't matter how long...it's not a permanent ban as Mr. Khan and the rest of the lefties are trying to disingenuously spin it to be.

It also ignores the fact that the screening process is already quite vigorous.

Again...doesn't matter. Our current process...no matter how vigorous...isn't working.

Well, I did not mean to suggest he had, but I acknowledge my post could be read that way, and for that, I apologize. But to be clear, I acknowledge Trump has actually repudiated that idea. Some of his supporters, on the other hand...

Mr. Khan wasn't referring to Trump's supporters. He was talking directly at Trump when he spouted off with his drivel.

Anyway, you haven't answered my question.

I answered your question...plus, I reject your question on the grounds that it is full of dumbass hypotheticals that bear no relation to the reality that you seem to be talking about.

 

[Mycroft]

Thanks. That pretty much proves that you took considerable liberty with your *cough* interpretation of what she said, after having been called a murderer who should be in prison. :thumbs:

Okay.

So you think she said something different?

 

[ashurbanipal]

Doesn't matter how long...it's not a permanent ban as Mr. Khan and the rest of the lefties are trying to disingenuously spin it to be.

I disagree. Obviously a billion-year ban would not be permanent, but would be for all intents and purposes--so in fact it does matter how long. A ten-year ban would be quite egregious, but within the realm of possibility. But I haven't heard anyone say that Trump has said there should be a permanent ban.

Again...doesn't matter. Our current process...no matter how vigorous...isn't working.

It obviously does matter. Perhaps no process we could put in place would "work"--whatever that means in this context.

Mr. Khan wasn't referring to Trump's supporters. He was talking directly at Trump when he spouted off with his drivel.

That he addressed Trump directly doesn't mean he wasn't motivated to speak against a certain point of view held in common by some or all of Trump's supporters.

Anyway, you haven't answered my question.

I answered your question

No, you did not. I asked what fundamentalist Christian parents should do in the situation I described. You responded by saying what Obama should do. That doesn't answer the question.

...plus, I reject your question on the grounds that it is full of dumbass hypotheticals that bear no relation to the reality that you seem to be talking about.

Well, you certainly seem to be going to great lengths to avoid answering a simple direct question. Hypotheticals have everything to do with reality, so I'm not sure what you're on about there. A person going through an immigration screening process could be a terrorist--we ask essentially the same hypotheticals of every person who comes into this country.