An Obamacare fiasco could blow up on Democrats right before the midterms

[Deuce]

Nope. Under Universal healthcare, he would have ended up on a waiting list for treatment. Rationed healthcare.

LOL, is that what you think happens?

P.S. We ration healthcare in the United States.

 

[Overitall]

There are professional medical debt settlement companies that can help. They will negotiate with the debtor, the collection agencies or both and likely get them to considerably lessen the debt. Their incentive is they get a percentage of the amount of money you save, usually 20 to 30%. If I had that much medical debt, I would consider using one of them.

Thanks for the advice. Should it get troublesome for me, I'll look into it. At the moment they can't get blood out of a turnip.

 

[Overitall]

Sounds like a good case for universal healthcare.

Except that the government has a knack for screwing programs up. If you have grandchildren do you honestly believe SS will be solvent whereby they will receive it when they retire? Or do you believe that the VA administration is doing a fantastic job for our veterans?

 

[MAGAnificent]

LOL, is that what you think happens?

P.S. We ration healthcare in the United States.

Libruls like you have your own definition of rationing.

The real definition below is from Webster's Merriam Dictionary:

"Rationing is the practice of controlling the distribution of a good or service in order to cope with scarcity. Rationing is a mandate of the government, at the local or federal level."

Using that definition, the only medical service rationed in the US is organ transplants. Using the left wing's idiotic "rationed by cost" scenario suggests that all commerce on the planet is rationed, which is definately not the case.

 

[Deuce]

Except that the government has a knack for screwing programs up. If you have grandchildren do you honestly believe SS will be solvent whereby they will receive it when they retire? Or do you believe that the VA administration is doing a fantastic job for our veterans?

Universal healthcare works just fine all over the world, in all sorts of different models. Financial arguments are absurd because literally every single example is substantially cheaper than what we have now.

"How can we afford it" is a strange question to ask about something cheaper than what you already are paying for.

"America's government is uniquely incompetent in the entire world" is not an argument I will accept.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Universal healthcare works just fine all over the world, in all sorts of different models. Financial arguments are absurd because literally every single example is substantially cheaper than what we have now.

"How can we afford it" is a strange question to ask about something cheaper than what you already are paying for.

"America's government is uniquely incompetent in the entire world" is not an argument I will accept.

Universal Healthcare wherever it's employed comes with rationing and waiting lists. It works better in some parts of the world then ohters, however it does not work fine and it would be insanely stupid to think it would work in the USA.

 

[reflechissez]

The last time the Dow had 8 straight weekly drops was 90 years ago (1932). This week was a particularly bad week based on what we learned about the consumer - Target and Walmart numbers were terrible. Target stock dropped over 25% in a single day.

I have a bit of money I've been waiting a while to add to the market. I did get in with 12% of my planned new investment at the end of last Friday - the market had reached my "interested" level. Now, I'm back in wait and watch mode. I'm VERY patient. If we don't experience another interesting downturn in the next few months, I'll just keep waiting. If the S&P approaches or gets to about 4000, I'll plunk the other 88% in - probably in increments, but when it tumbles those increments can get to be consecutive days, when the action is swift and intriguing.
Last Friday was fun because I was purchasing an ETF as a limit order (day only), and it executed 60 seconds before the market closed.

Time to make your move.

 

[Deuce]

Libruls like you have your own definition of rationing.

The real definition below is from Webster's Merriam Dictionary:

"Rationing is the practice of controlling the distribution of a good or service in order to cope with scarcity. Rationing is a mandate of the government, at the local or federal level."

Using that definition, the only medical service rationed in the US is organ transplants. Using the left wing's idiotic "rationed by cost" scenario suggests that all commerce on the planet is rationed, which is definately not the case.

Laughable attempt at a bait-and-switch. You're using two definitions of rationing and are hoping nobody noticed. See, you tried to define rationing based on waiting times before, now you're claiming it's purely based on scarcity and therefore only organ transplants count.

Except, you abandoned the "waiting times = rationing" idea. LGB, America has waiting times too. Using your old definition, this means America rations healthcare. Using your new definition, the only medical service rationed in Canada is organ transplants. Since, you know, waiting times don't count anymore.

America has waiting times, and they aren't short. In fact, we have some of the worst. Lots of countries with universal healthcare have shorter waiting times than us. Have you not noticed that when someone gives you waiting time figures, it's pretty much always Canada? They're cherry picking the data.

 

[Deuce]

Universal Healthcare wherever it's employed comes with rationing and waiting lists. It works better in some parts of the world then ohters, however it does not work fine and it would be insanely stupid to think it would work in the USA.

See above, #283

 

[MAGAnificent]

Laughable attempt at a bait-and-switch. You're using two definitions of rationing and are hoping nobody noticed. See, you tried to define rationing based on waiting times before, now you're claiming it's purely based on scarcity and therefore only organ transplants count.

What bait and switch would that be? I posted the Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of rationing, which happens to agree with all of my points regarding rationing and waiting lists. And yes, scarcity would apply in the US in healthcare if we were do something as stupidly insane as universal healthcare. Removing the profit motive in the long run would result in far less doctors, specialists, nurses, hospitals, high tech diagnostic equipment, etc, just like in the UK and Canada

Except, you abandoned the "waiting times = rationing" idea. LGB, America has waiting times too. Using your old definition, this means America rations healthcare. Using your new definition, the only medical service rationed in Canada is organ transplants. Since, you know, waiting times don't count anymore.

I abandoned nothing. Your inability to connect the dictionary definition to supply and demand is your problem, not mine.

America has waiting times, and they aren't short. In fact, we have some of the worst. Lots of countries with universal healthcare have shorter waiting times than us. Have you not noticed that when someone gives you waiting time figures, it's pretty much always Canada? They're cherry picking the data.

Other then organ transplants, America has no government imposed waiting times. I happen to be 68 years old and despite having lived in big cities, rural areas, and small towns, I have never once had to deal with a healthcare waiting list., government opposed or otherwise. Only rationing I have experience in the US was short term gasoline rationing during one of the Arab Oil embargoes around the mid 1970s.

 

[Overitall]

Universal healthcare works just fine all over the world, in all sorts of different models. Financial arguments are absurd because literally every single example is substantially cheaper than what we have now.

"How can we afford it" is a strange question to ask about something cheaper than what you already are paying for.

"America's government is uniquely incompetent in the entire world" is not an argument I will accept.

I'll ignore the fact that you didn't address my questions. I think I understand why.

In regards to UHC, there's no denying that are some pro to it, but one can't ignore the cons. Given what I asked the cons have a greater chance of materializing in the U.S.

A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding Universal Health Care in the US

A comprehensive guide to understanding universal health care in the US, exploring its definition, pillars, funding, current scenario, perspectives, and political support.

www.itsuptous.org

Disadvantages of UHC​

On the other hand, the disadvantages of universal health care are equally prevalent. Many universal health care countries have exceptionally long wait times for care.

Moreover, care focuses on younger, healthier patients, while rare diseases, end-of-life conditions and elective procedures fall by the wayside.

Even more critical, UHC can be hugely expensive. Indeed, any government offering UHC will likely face the need for cutting other programs and rationing medical care.

What programs and medical care are you willing to sacrifice for UHC? Please don't avoid this question.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I'll ignore the fact that you didn't address my questions. I think I understand why.

I regards to UHC, there's no denying that are some pro to it, but one can't ignore the cons. Given what I asked the cons have a greater chance of materializing in the U.S.

A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding Universal Health Care in the US

A comprehensive guide to understanding universal health care in the US, exploring its definition, pillars, funding, current scenario, perspectives, and political support.

www.itsuptous.org

What programs and medical care are you willing to sacrifice for UHC? Please don't avoid this question.

I'll never understand where the leftwing faith in a government that cannot even effectively handle Medicare for Seniors comes from. The government is basically writing IOUs and printing money to cover it.

 

[Deuce]

What bait and switch would that be? I posted the Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of rationing, which happens to agree with all of my points regarding rationing and waiting lists. And yes, scarcity would apply in the US in healthcare if we were do something as stupidly insane as universal healthcare. Removing the profit motive in the long run would result in far less doctors, specialists, nurses, hospitals, high tech diagnostic equipment, etc, just like in the UK and Canada

I abandoned nothing. Your inability to connect the dictionary definition to supply and demand is your problem, not mine.

Other then organ transplants, America has no government imposed waiting times. I happen to be 68 years old and despite having lived in big cities, rural areas, and small towns, I have never once had to deal with a healthcare waiting list., government opposed or otherwise. Only rationing I have experience in the US was short term gasoline rationing during one of the Arab Oil embargoes around the mid 1970s.

No, you don't understand: America has waiting times. The wait time for healthcare in the US is not zero.

Canada has no "government imposed" waiting times. Their wait times happen for the exact same reasons ours do. Are you telling me that every single procedure you've ever needed has been scheduled same day? Wow, you should buy a lottery ticket.

 

[Overitall]

I'll never understand where the leftwing faith in a government that cannot even effectively handle Medicare for Seniors comes from. The government is basically writing IOUs and printing money to cover it.

Their hope is that the rich are going to pay their fair share. I wonder if Nancy is paying her fair share (voluntarily since there's no law saying you can't pay more).

Nancy Pelosi's Net Worth - How Rich is She?

Details on Nancy Pelosi's net worth. Learn what she makes from her salary, real estate portfolio, and stock holdings.

finty.com

The estimated net worth of Nancy Pelosi is $120 million.

 

[Overitall]

No, you don't understand: America has waiting times. The wait time for healthcare in the US is not zero.

Canada has no "government imposed" waiting times. Their wait times happen for the exact same reasons ours do. Are you telling me that every single procedure you've ever needed has been scheduled same day? Wow, you should buy a lottery ticket.

I think there's more Canadians coming to the U.S. for healthcare than vice versa.

 

[Deuce]

I think there's more Canadians coming to the U.S. for healthcare than vice versa.

I have no idea why you think this statement is relevant

 

[HangLow]

Im not going to answer either.
He did say that he is on a fixed income,
so I am assuming it is less than mine, but I am not asking that to him either.

The Far-Reaching Benefits of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid Expansion​

The Far-Reaching Benefits of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid Expansion | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

A growing body of research shows that Medicaid expansion is yielding significant benefits for those gaining coverage, their families, and their communities.

www.cbpp.org

Many of the rePuklican assertions are them just blowing smoke out of their...
goddam lies driven by bigoted hate of President Obama...
-Peace M'Lady...
Cultist Gotta Cult...
Here is what is really happening...

​

 

[Overitall]

I have no idea why you think this statement is relevant

I'm not surprised.

 

[Logician Man]

There's nothing affordable in the Affordable Care Act.

"Affordable" is relative. I know a guy who was diagnosed with Stage 4 terminal NSCLC. His company worked with him to switch him from the company plan he was on pre-diagnosis, and put him on a top tier ACA plan. Unfortunately, he passed away, but had the ACA plan not been been available, his entire life savings, as well as home equity, would have been wiped out by medical bills, and his surviving wife would have been left penniless. The ACA plan saved his/hers estate/savings well into six digits with a curvy number in medical bills, had the ACA plan not been available to those who have been diagnosed with pre-existing conditions.

 

[Deuce]

I'll ignore the fact that you didn't address my questions. I think I understand why.

I did address it, I guess it was too indirect for you to understand. The underlying problem you brought up was financial. I addressed financial issues.

In regards to UHC, there's no denying that are some pro to it, but one can't ignore the cons. Given what I asked the cons have a greater chance of materializing in the U.S.

A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding Universal Health Care in the US

A comprehensive guide to understanding universal health care in the US, exploring its definition, pillars, funding, current scenario, perspectives, and political support.

www.itsuptous.org

Link points out waiting times but fails to mention that most countries with universal healthcare have shorter waiting times than we do.

It fails to even attempt to substantiate claims about "end of life care falling by the wayside."

This link is clearly biased and doesn't provide evidence for many of its claims.

What programs and medical care are you willing to sacrifice for UHC? Please don't avoid this question.

I reject the premise. Your claim that something has to be sacrificed has not been substantiated. Since universal healthcare is cheaper in every single case in the world, one can surmise that we could expand healthcare for the same amount we are paying right now. So, what programs are YOU willing to ADD?

 

[Deuce]

I'm not surprised.

Since you are unwilling to discuss its relevance, have a nice day.

 

[MAGAnificent]

No, you don't understand: America has waiting times. The wait time for healthcare in the US is not zero.

No government imposed waiting times.

Canada has no "government imposed" waiting times. Their wait times happen for the exact same reasons ours do. Are you telling me that every single procedure you've ever needed has been scheduled same day? Wow, you should buy a lottery ticket.

You are not even close. The Canadian waiting times are indirectly government imposed. Taking so much profit motive out of the Canadian healthcare system has led to limited healthcare resources compared to the US. And No, I am not suggesting that I have always been able to get same day scheduling for doctor visits or surgery. However the media waiting time in Canada for many necessary medical procedures is over 25.6 weeks! Yet in the US, I have often gone to doctors appoints as a walk in on the same day. Not the case with specialists, however there is no set wait time. I see two different specialists twice a year and the appoints are planned intervals for my sake, not waiting lists. Up until Trump, there were waiting lists at the VA (Government Healthcare for veterans). As for procedures, I have in my lifetime had 8 surgeries. Scheduling was never an issue. I never had to wait more then a week to ten days. Your suggestion there are waiting times because you have to make appointments is hilarious.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Their hope is that the rich are going to pay their fair share. I wonder if Nancy is paying her fair share (voluntarily since there's no law saying you can't pay more).

Nancy Pelosi's Net Worth - How Rich is She?

Details on Nancy Pelosi's net worth. Learn what she makes from her salary, real estate portfolio, and stock holdings.

finty.com

Nasty Nancy, despite her wealth would just walk into Walter Reed Army Hospital and get the care on the taxpayer dime like the rest of the wealthy congress critters.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I think there's more Canadians coming to the U.S. for healthcare than vice versa.

Including the MPs.

 

[Overitall]

Including the MPs.

Apparently my point was too much for someone to handle. It was meant to point out that despite UHC Canadians find it necessary to come to the United States for healthcare more than we are going to Canada. Of course I didn't delve into the nuances as to why, but I figured that would be someone else's opportunity.