An Israeli about to be 18 faces a demand he join the IDF or be imprisoned

[Port & Starboard]

They volunteered.

Conscription is slavery.

In your world.

Not many people live there fortunately.

 

[Big Brother]

They volunteered.

Conscription is slavery.

What if Joe Biden is told by the donor class to make an executive order forcing conscription on just about every american who can walk and hold up an assault rifle? Would you still be a card carrying radical progressive or would you immediately go out and buy a MAGA hat?

 

[Loulit01]

What if Joe Biden is told by the donor class to make an executive order forcing conscription on just about every american who can walk and hold up an assault rifle? Would you still be a card carrying radical progressive or would you immediately go out and buy a MAGA hat?

Ignore ridiculous hypotheticals: Check.

 

[Tigerace117]

I'll leave it to you to go educate yourself on the myriad geopolitical threats to Israel that are literally only held at bay because of western support of Israel. I'll give you some starting material. The following countries do not recognize Israel as a state: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq (yes, even now), Kuwait, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen. These are the states more local to Israel. There are more beyond.

The factors you mention are reasons why nobody has attacked Israel, and why Israel's destruction has been prevented. There have been plenty of open declarations of wiping out Israel if they could. Israel is surrounded by enemies on practically all sides. I am not pro-Israel btw, just talking realpolitik.





He used clever editorial redirection to create plausible deniability, but it's obvious.

Also, stop accusing me of "propaganda" for simply having an opinion. I'm not being intentionally biased or misleading, or trying to push a political cause. I'm simply engaged in political analysis.



The U.S. is surrounded by allies and has a huge population of volunteers to draw from. Conscription is no longer necessary. The U.S. has over 250 million adults. Israel's total population is just under 10 million. If they don't conscript adults and make sure everyone is trained for a potential nation-wide military rally, then they could die a a nation. It's that simple. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm saying it's the reality of their situation.

Afghanistan is half way across the Middle East and can’t project power beyond its borders.

Iran is halfway across the Middle East.

Iraq can barely control its own borders; the same goes for Lebanon. Neither is going to be invading Israel.

Saudi Arabia’s military is a joke.

Kuwait is tiny and on the other side of the Middle East.

Syria and Yemen are still active war zones.

Not a single existential threat there.

 

[Tigerace117]

What if Joe Biden is told by the donor class to make an executive order forcing conscription on just about every american who can walk and hold up an assault rifle? Would you still be a card carrying radical progressive or would you immediately go out and buy a MAGA hat?

What fantasy world is this happening in, and why do you think MAGA fanboys would still be around if the US is carrying out that level of conscription?

 

[Big Brother]

What fantasy world is this happening in, and why do you think MAGA fanboys would still be around if the US is carrying out that level of conscription?

The fantasy world the rich donor class, AKA the billionaires, live in. They are turning sour on China and will soon instruct Biden to go to war to protect their profits. Considering the size of the Chinese military plus reserves, the US is going to need every age and gender to fight. Will you do your patriotic duty?

 

[Tigerace117]

The fantasy world the rich donor class, AKA the billionaires, live in. They are turning sour on China and will soon instruct Biden to go to war to protect their profits. Considering the size of the Chinese military plus reserves, the US is going to need every age and gender to fight. Will you do your patriotic duty?

The US is not going to institute mass conscription to fight China, for the obvious reason that that there’s no actual way to compete with their manpower pool. The US’ only chance to go quality over quantity.

 

[vanceen]

A seventeen year old doesn't want to be drafted because he doesn't agree with what his country's military is doing.

I saw this movie when I was seventeen!

 

[Questerr]

The fantasy world the rich donor class, AKA the billionaires, live in. They are turning sour on China and will soon instruct Biden to go to war to protect their profits. Considering the size of the Chinese military plus reserves, the US is going to need every age and gender to fight. Will you do your patriotic duty?

The Chinese military’s size or its reserves don’t matter. They can’t swim to America.

 

[Big Brother]

The Chinese military’s size or its reserves don’t matter. They can’t swim to America.

Take a look around your city. They're already here. There are chinese police stations in the US, and I bet there are already a million or so soldiers ready to go as well. And, if they need any more, the chinese government can get them to Mexico and just let them walk across the border. Probably each carrying 10 pounds of fentanyl. Start doing pushups, you are about to be drafted and shipped off to bootcamp. And if you dare shoot a chinese soldier I will call you a racist and get you cancelled.

 

[Questerr]

Take a look around your city. They're already here. There are chinese police stations in the US, and I bet there are already a million or so soldiers ready to go as well. And, if they need any more, the chinese government can get them to Mexico and just let them walk across the border. Probably each carrying 10 pounds of fentanyl. Start doing pushups, you are about to be drafted and shipped off to bootcamp. And if you dare shoot a chinese soldier I will call you a racist and get you cancelled.

Yeah, Chinese college students and guest workers scattered across the country are not an army.

How exactly would China get an army to Mexico? Have they developed teleportation?

Have you ever heard the word “logistics” before?

Why not just admit your scenario is absurd? Oh, right. That would require honesty and thus is beyond what Conservatives are capable of.

 

[Big Brother]

Yeah, Chinese college students and guest workers scattered across the country are not an army.

How exactly would China get an army to Mexico? Have they developed teleportation?

Have you ever heard the word “logistics” before?

Why not just admit your scenario is absurd? Oh, right. That would require honesty and thus is beyond what Conservatives are capable of.

Probably the same way millions of chinese including the chinese police got here. You think the chinese don't have planes and boats? Admit it, you're afraid to be drafted and die for the establishment.

 

[Questerr]

Probably the same way millions of chinese including the chinese police got here. You think the chinese don't have planes and boats? Admit it, you're afraid to be drafted and die for the establishment.

So what is your evidence that the Chinese Navy and Air Force could get an army to Mexico and support it logistically without it being interdicted by the US Navy and Air Force?

Your scenario is absurd. We wouldn’t need conscription to defeat an “army” of untrained and unarmed college students and random guest workers.

 

[eman623]

That's the nonsense. Does the IDF soldier retain the right to travel, to take a better paying job, to take a day off, or to tell his boss to **** off and walk away? You're living in a fantasy world.

Conscription is slavery.

Slavery is freedom.

Therefore conscription is freedom.

 

[eman623]

Israel recognizes conscientious objection. If this guy is actually a pacifist he won't be required to serve.

 

[Questerr]

Israel recognizes conscientious objection. If this guy is actually a pacifist he won't be required to serve.

One doesn’t have to be a pacifist to not want to participate in ethnic cleansing.

 

[Tigerace117]

Take a look around your city. They're already here. There are chinese police stations in the US, and I bet there are already a million or so soldiers ready to go as well. And, if they need any more, the chinese government can get them to Mexico and just let them walk across the border. Probably each carrying 10 pounds of fentanyl. Start doing pushups, you are about to be drafted and shipped off to bootcamp. And if you dare shoot a chinese soldier I will call you a racist and get you cancelled.

A million soldiers? Where, exactly, are these million soldiers hiding?

 

[eman623]

One doesn’t have to be a pacifist to not want to participate in ethnic cleansing.

Not unless you want to spend 3 years in prison.

But hey, it's better than being ethnically cleansed or having to be an ethnic cleanser I suppose.

Not sure why this guy wants to even stay in a country he hates so much. Israel should do him a favor and strip him of his citizenship and expel him to the West Bank where he can live in harmony with like-minded people.

 

[Craig234]

I saw this movie when I was seventeen!

OK, is it being something that has happened other times helpful for him? Also, Israel doesn't border Canada.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yup. And if some middle eastern state would get up the nerve to actually attack Israel, well, that would be like declaring war on America.

That's why the Marines went in during the Yom Kippur war... Right?

The Six Days war?

The 1948 war?

Oh, wait.

 

[vanceen]

OK, is it being something that has happened other times helpful for him? Also, Israel doesn't border Canada.

Your second sentence is kind of clever.

 

[Mr Person]

I have to wonder what mandatory service would do to the American population. Doesn't have to - and cannot - be all combat-related. Perhaps I'd have gotten even more out of college if I entered at 21 rather than 18. Perhaps I'd have been more mature about things around that age.

 

[ralfy]

To recap, the kid is being forced to serve in a military that's partly funded by a foreign power that also funds surrounding countries hostile to it.

Brilliant.

 

[bomberfox]

Conscription into the IDF is Israeli's lifeblood, being such a small nation surrounded by so many enemies that want them destroyed. They can't survive without constant IDF propaganda from birth. From a realpolitik perspective, I understand. Israel was artificially created by western power, its military continues to be fed by the west (mainly the USA), and without that power it would dissolve into the mists of time. So they're not going to let people abstain from joining their army without punishment.

IIRC the mandatory service for men is almost 3 years (for women it's less). If you refuse service, you are imprisoned by whatever amount of time the judge decides, but ultimately it's up to the military to discharge you in order for you to leave prison. So if a judge gives you 3 months in prison, if the IDF doesn't discharge you, you can be re-sentenced all over again after those 3 months are up, all the way up to your 3 year service term. And I have no idea what factors go into whether or not the IDF decides to let you go free. I'm sure writing an article about how much you hate your country and posting it to the internet is not going to work in this kid's favor.

I can't imagine living in a country with mandatory service. In college I had a friend from Singapore who luckily had an American father and he dodged service by fleeing to the U.S., but all his friends ended up in the military. But it's not like Singapore is so involved in regular warfare. Israel on the other hand is constantly in military conflicts. You could end up maimed or killed, or having to take somebody else's life. I personally would take the prison time because violence is against my ethics, but I imagine the prison time isn't the end of it. You're probably ruined for life in Israeli society if you don't do your time in the IDF. And it's not like this young guy can get refugee status in another country over this, since most of the west supports Israel.

What a tough situation, made worse by how corrupt the current administration is there.

Israel is not nearly in as bad a situation as it was before.

 

[Apocalypse]

His article speaks for itself, about the moral dilemma facing Israelis when the government does bad.

Why I'm Saying No to the IDF as a 17-Year-Old | Common Dreams

As my birthday approaches, I grow more and more anxious because a professional organization of trained terrorists that calls itself an army wants me to be one of them. And if I say no, a prison sentence will be the result.

www.commondreams.org

Why is that noteworthy?
Israel has a mandatory military service. Those who refuse it may do jail time. As it is in South Korea and other countries.
This person behind that opinion piece is representing a very extreme and small minority in Israel that buys into the lies of terrorists and antisemites. Their numbers are so few that the political parties representing their views cannot even pass the electoral threshold. But he's clearly not the first case.
I'm not sure he will be doing prison time eventually. I do hope he will.