• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
22,645
Reaction score
9,279
Location
Venice Beach, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
As is your inability to grasp state and local responsibilities and where these entities get their money, your lack of understanding of how higher taxes impact economic activity, the taxes you pay and their purpose, and any inability to understand the private sector at all

We aren't even discussing state and local whatever. You made a ridiculous string of arguments that eventually backfire, and you don't have enough integrity to admit you were wrong, and learn from it.

Case and point :

DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1

Not only was this the wrong data set for 2019, you didn't even do the arithmetic correctly. :lamo
 

Cynical

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
443
Reaction score
119
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Are you talking about Trump's tax-cuts? If so, maybe they worked for you. But I got hit with the S.A.L.T. changes.

The standard deduction for a married went up to $24,000. Even with property taxes at $10,000 our itemized deductions were still under the increased standard deduction. You must have very high property taxes.
 

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
22,645
Reaction score
9,279
Location
Venice Beach, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not sure you HAD a point.

Financial crises are a different animal than run-of-the-mill recessions. Hence, your attempt to marginalize the recovery on the basis of post WW2 downturns is invalid.
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,522
Reaction score
11,155
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Financial crises are a different animal run-of-the-mill recessions. Hence, your attempt to marginalize the recovery on the basis of post WW2 downturns is invalid.
Be honest - your "point" is, and has always been to fabricate any talking point to venerate any economic move Obama made while deprecating every move of Trump. I didn't make up that comparison of Obama's post-recession recovery; it's been repeated and explained in detail by several highly respected economists. Serious, do you contend that the recovery from a financial crisis just sputters along for eight years and suddenly starts showing signs of life? You can't be serious.
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You asked where the 2.03 trillion revenue came from, I showed you. I gave you the budget of the United States which defines Discretionary and Mandatory spending line items. your problem is lack of understanding of the taxes you pay and their purpose, Sorry no one can help you out of this ignorance except you and you want to remain mired in that ignorance
YOU showed us the budget and where the TOTAL revenue comes from,
So where is this 2T in taxes that you say are just for discretionary spending?
there is none and you just ( in a way ) admitted that and that you have been lying about it for some time now.
AGAIN we have a total revenue of 3.4 T in all taxes and some other things and they have to pay all the Mandatory spending FIRST and anything after that is left for discretionary spending
THERE IS NO SPECIAL TAX FOR DISCRETIONARY SPENDING LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING
OR SHOULD I SAY YOU HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT
Have a nice night
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Please stop posting novels as I have no time to read your fiction and especially since any response takes me over the maximum allowable by DP.



My head is firmly up the ass of the private sector proponents as that is the only ideology that works and makes any sense. You people buy rhetoric like spending in the name of compassion and never refute actual results. I can understand why you don't understand data as that is a foreign concept to you as you prefer propaganda and rhetoric that makes you feel good about yourself and throwing money at social problems

I do agree with you that there are rich liberals most of whom come across as being guilty about their income but that doesn't change the reality that they are entitled to spend it where they see fit not where a bureaucrat sees fit. Bureaucrats spend money to buy votes and that creates debt and dependence. Reality sucks, doesn't it

How many times do I have to tell you I don't watch Fox News and haven't since my wife died 7 years ago. I do get articles from Fox News but none of the results I posted came from Fox, all from bea.gov, bls.gov and treasury.org. You might want to call them and tell them their data is wrong

Why don't you ask your CPA wife where state and local governments get their money since obviously you don't realize the impact of higher taxes on their revenue stream.
Maybe it is time you got it out and looked around you and saw just what has been happening
Have a nice night
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Obama isn't in office any more, he is out and a distant memory. Trump has blown his economic results out of the water generating the best economic results for the first three years of any Presidency in history. Keep trying to build up Obama, I know he appreciates it but it doesn't serve much purpose here

And higher deficits and added more to the debt then Obama did in 4/5 of the years he was in office
What happened to Trump's promise to cut the deficit and debt?
OH it must be all the Dems fault well seeing the Republicans had COMPLETE control of the Congress and the Presidency and still ran it up more then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office it has to be their fault and they aren't saying a word about that
have a nice night
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The standard deduction for a married went up to $24,000. Even with property taxes at $10,000 our itemized deductions were still under the increased standard deduction. You must have very high property taxes.

You forgot to say they took away the 4050 personal exemption
the SD was 12700 before they passed the tax cut so with the personal exemptions a family of 5 could deduct something like 32950 and now it is only 24000
one of the few low to middle income groups to make out were married couples without kids. 12700 + 8100 = 20800
If they had one child it went down 12700 + 12150 = 23850 and so on and so on
have a nice nay
 

Conservative

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
112,665
Reaction score
10,290
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
We aren't even discussing state and local whatever. You made a ridiculous string of arguments that eventually backfire, and you don't have enough integrity to admit you were wrong, and learn from it.

Case and point :



Not only was this the wrong data set for 2019, you didn't even do the arithmetic correctly. :lamo

I posted the link and the data from bea.gov. 21.7 is the 2019 data not 21.4 as you reported. You continue to make things up to support your ideology totally ignoring what the actual American people are seeing and feeling. Let me remind you

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Last edited:

Conservative

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
112,665
Reaction score
10,290
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
YOU showed us the budget and where the TOTAL revenue comes from,
So where is this 2T in taxes that you say are just for discretionary spending?
there is none and you just ( in a way ) admitted that and that you have been lying about it for some time now.
AGAIN we have a total revenue of 3.4 T in all taxes and some other things and they have to pay all the Mandatory spending FIRST and anything after that is left for discretionary spending
THERE IS NO SPECIAL TAX FOR DISCRETIONARY SPENDING LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING
OR SHOULD I SAY YOU HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT
Have a nice night

If you knew what taxes you paid you would figure it out but that is way above what you are capable of understanding, have a nice night
 

Conservative

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
112,665
Reaction score
10,290
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Maybe it is time you got it out and looked around you and saw just what has been happening
Have a nice night

Drove 5800 miles across country and have a great idea what is going on. I am among the 55% that approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy
 

Conservative

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
112,665
Reaction score
10,290
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And higher deficits and added more to the debt then Obama did in 4/5 of the years he was in office
What happened to Trump's promise to cut the deficit and debt?
OH it must be all the Dems fault well seeing the Republicans had COMPLETE control of the Congress and the Presidency and still ran it up more then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office it has to be their fault and they aren't saying a word about that
have a nice night

Obama is irrelevant, he is out of office, the deficit we have now is way over your head to understand, have a good night. Don't give a damn what you think Obama did, his legacy is there for all to see.
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,522
Reaction score
11,155
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
And higher deficits and added more to the debt then Obama did in 4/5 of the years he was in office
What happened to Trump's promise to cut the deficit and debt?
OH it must be all the Dems fault well seeing the Republicans had COMPLETE control of the Congress and the Presidency and still ran it up more then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office it has to be their fault and they aren't saying a word about that
have a nice night
What? Obama added $.5.5 trillion dollars to debt in his first four years. His deficits came down when GOP gained more and more control of Congress.
 

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
22,645
Reaction score
9,279
Location
Venice Beach, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Serious, do you contend that the recovery from a financial crisis just sputters along for eight years and suddenly starts showing signs of life? You can't be serious.

If you can't wrap your mind around what deleveraging entails for debt markets in the tens of trillions of dollars... I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're listening to the wrong economists.
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,522
Reaction score
11,155
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
If you can't wrap your mind around what deleveraging entails for debt markets in the tens of trillions of dollars... I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're listening to the wrong economists.
LOL, spewing jargon explains everything. :roll:
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Drove 5800 miles across country and have a great idea what is going on. I am among the 55% that approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy
5800 miles LOL
heck I drive more then that in one year around town ( when I was going back and forth to work and the store heck I drive any where from 15000 to 22000 a year back then, now I drive about 12-15000 miles a year.
that is why I don't lease a car , I usually buy a new one every two years then add in all the other taxes I have to pay buying a new car every two to three years)
I am talking real mileage like 200,000 miles a year in an 18 wheeler and that was just part time. Guys that drive for a living drive a lot more then that
( and when I was driving we had to keep track of all that tax and tolls and more )
So I know what your talking about
have a nice night
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Obama is irrelevant, he is out of office, the deficit we have now is way over your head to understand, have a good night. Don't give a damn what you think Obama did, his legacy is there for all to see.
so the deficit now a days is different from the deficit back when Obama was in office.
How about the debt? is that different too?
You right wingers cried and cried about the debt and deficit back when Obama was in office but aren't saying a word now.
Why has Trump and the Republicans run up the debt more in the first two years when they had complete control of the complete US Government ( Congress and the President ) then Obama did 4 out of the 8 years he was in office?
didn't they tell us if they were elected they wouldn't ever run it up as much as Obama did?
YOU still can't tell us where you got the BS that there is 2T in taxes just for discretionary spending
again you either lied or you have NO idea what you are talking about
have a nice night
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
1,663
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What? Obama added $.5.5 trillion dollars to debt in his first four years. His deficits came down when GOP gained more and more control of Congress.
and do you remember that we were in a recession when he took office and the Dems only had control of the House ( where all spending bills have to start ) for the first two years
so the spending in ALL of the last 6 years of Obama's term in office is all on them
Yes he signed the budgets and he takes all the blame like all Presidents do.
So what is your excuse for Trump and a Republican Controlled Congress running the debt up more in their first two years then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office
remember Trump didn't take over a recession like Obama did
Have a nice night
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,522
Reaction score
11,155
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
and do you remember that we were in a recession when he took office and the Dems only had control of the House ( where all spending bills have to start ) for the first two years
so the spending in ALL of the last 6 years of Obama's term in office is all on them
Yes he signed the budgets and he takes all the blame like all Presidents do.
Well, no, not exactly. The GOP took the house in the 2010 election and took office in Jan 2011. Which means the first budget they would have worked on would have been FY 2012. While the FY 2012 was a tad over a Trillion the four fooling deficits were far less.


Tbird said:
So what is your excuse for Trump and a Republican Controlled Congress running the debt up more in their first two years then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office
remember Trump didn't take over a recession like Obama did
Have a nice night
I've criticized Republican spending for decades.
 

marke

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
34,752
Reaction score
3,960
Location
north carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office


New York (CNN Business)The US economy in 2019 grew at its slowest pace in three years, according to preliminary data from the Commerce Department.

The economy expanded by 2.3% last year, its lowest level since 2016, when growth stood at 1.6%.
The economy under President Donald Trump has been consistently strong but not electric. In its best year, 2018, the economy expanded at a 2.9% clip. In 2017, it grew by 2.4%.
The dropoff in 2019 was because personal consumption and exports fell, according to the Commerce Department.

Critics of Obama said his economy was mediocre because he never had GDP growth at 3% or higher. Neither has Trump, with low unemployment and a trillion dollar deficit that's basically fiscal stimulus.
Trump promised on the campaign trail that he'd bring in 4, 5, and maybe 6% growth. Didn't happen. His tax-cuts were supposed to be the economic miracle to boost growth. It didn't happen. His tariffs were supposed to help exports. Exports fell.

Trump notwithstanding, the American economy cannot long survive under a 23 trillion dollar debt which is still escalating.
 

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
22,645
Reaction score
9,279
Location
Venice Beach, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I posted the link and the data from bea.gov. 21.7 is the 2019 data not 21.4 as you reported.

That you're not aware of the data release only highlights your incompetence:

2e1315bdbc.png


I shouldn't have to spoon feed someone who thinks they are an expert...


You continue to make things up

This is a lie.
 

Casca XV

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
7,086
Reaction score
1,402
Location
State of Jefferson
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office


New York (CNN Business)The US economy in 2019 grew at its slowest pace in three years, according to preliminary data from the Commerce Department.

The economy expanded by 2.3% last year, its lowest level since 2016, when growth stood at 1.6%.
The economy under President Donald Trump has been consistently strong but not electric. In its best year, 2018, the economy expanded at a 2.9% clip. In 2017, it grew by 2.4%.
The dropoff in 2019 was because personal consumption and exports fell, according to the Commerce Department.

Critics of Obama said his economy was mediocre because he never had GDP growth at 3% or higher. Neither has Trump, with low unemployment and a trillion dollar deficit that's basically fiscal stimulus.
Trump promised on the campaign trail that he'd bring in 4, 5, and maybe 6% growth. Didn't happen. His tax-cuts were supposed to be the economic miracle to boost growth. It didn't happen. His tariffs were supposed to help exports. Exports fell.

And yet we still have the best overall economy in 50 years, Something Obama left the WH predicting would never happen.

With the trade deal with China and the other with Mexico and Canada signed watch what happens to the GDP now. Lack of those is what was holding it back.

Even so Trumps GDP is averaging twice what Obamas was, wage growth is 14.7 times faster. The Jobs under Obama were at places like Taco Bell and McDonalds, Trumps are in manufacturing.
 
Top Bottom