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America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

Conservative

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Exactly. Playing obtuse games and hating "the left" is all that defines you people anymore.

Ignoring human beings and what motivates them to vote is what you always do which is why your party will not be winning any NATIONAL elections
 

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The Obama administration allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthy in 2013. Afterward, we seen true deficit reduction as revenues grew and temporary government stimulus measures waned.



I agree that the only way to get a spending freeze is through bipartisanship. The Dem's wont do it on their own.

Obama kept 98.6% of the "Bush" tax rate cuts intact, sightly raising the top marginal rate on the top 1.4% of (personal income) taxpayers. The federal deficit increased during Obama's last two years in office and has increased further despite the House experiencing that great "blue wave" in 2019. What the demorats want along with any federal revenue increases (on the rich) is more federal spending.
 

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Ha... imagine that, facts are just a bunch of liberal bull****.



Nope.



You've not been able to demonstrate this claim.



My knowledge and familiarity of data and analytics is exponentially superior to that of yours. It's not even a question.



Are you saying that there wasn't record state and local revenue in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016?

:lamo

fredgraph.png

My point exactly, 1.9 to 2.4 in 8 years vs. 2.4 to almost 2.8 in 3 years. Thank you for posting data with actual numbers. You like the slope but ignore the numbers
 

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This is your warped logic. Nominal GDP growth fell from $1060 billion in 2018 to $848 billion in 2019. So by your warped logic, are we to claim the economy is doing poorly? That's been your (weak) mantra for roughly a year, when the Trump economy failed to achieve the 3% real GDP growth figure that you and all the Trump bots were projecting. After he failed you, this new shift to nominal GDP was the norm.

What do you have to say for yourself?

And yet you still don't get it, Nominal dollars mean nothing to people living for today. My warped logic is felt by the American electorate not the dumbass that support the liberal ideology. Again 3% growth doesn't resonate with the American people but more personal income, more state and local spending, more charitable giving does as does the trillion dollars in GDP Growth
 

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Yes, we agree HOWEVER that isn't what the left is even addressing as all the blame is being placed on the President. What the left is ignoring are the return on investment that American people are receiving because of the Trump economy vs. what they received prior. The point remains, it isn't the Trump spending causing the problems it is the entitlement and debt service.

See? You present four examples of that partisan nonsense you cling to:

1) "The Left, the Left, the left!" Strange that you complain about "the left" placing all blame on the President, when for eight years (2008-2016) you people spent enormous energy seeking to place all blame on the President. If I turn FOX News on right now, will I see them feeding you this BS? The reason you continue to prove clueless is that you are stuck within the partisan game that the GOP and FOX News insists upon you.

2) Trump is not to blame for 2019's 2.3% or 2.1% (depending on how you look at it). He is merely the President at the time, which means whatever he does will only slightly hurt or only slightly improve, but nothing that will promote him as the economic Savior you people want him to be. But since you have spent years seeking ways to place the economy's recovery into solely Obama's pocket, while ignoring the GOP's officially documented conduct to actually obstruct that recovery, you are stuck having to defend Trump, who is not solely responsible for the economy. A history lesson should suffice: After the Great Depression got underway, Roosevelt and Congress began creating a safety net to inject confidence into the capitalist and democratic system. This did not fix the problem. Still, we needed a World War that demanded massive cash injections into the national system and to correct the economic melt down across Europe that hurt our recovery. Funny how we continue to use Defense to do this.

3) The use of "entitlements" is a Democrat mistake that feeds into the GOP's propaganda against "socialism," in which Conservatives don't even bother to look up. Since you pay taxes, and these taxes should be about the people, Democrats should call them "earned benefits." Perhaps the greatest display of partisan ignorance in our country comes from the fact that half of those who receive government-sponsored health care and retirement in their old age are Conservatives who are outraged about "socialism" and "entitlements."

4) To be "entitled" is to believe oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Republicans use this term to imply an "un-American" negative. But paying taxes and expecting that to come back to the population is not special treatment. For "entitlement," you would have to go to the wealthy, who routinely go to government for a socialist hand-out. It is the wealthy who look for ever increasing tax-breaks and subsidies for special treatment, proving that the "free-market" of American capitalism is a lie, while the bill goes to the Middle-Class. It is the wealthy who use off-shore accounts to hide their wealth from the IRS, thus the American economy. And it is the wealthy, especially since the "Contract With America" and "Citizens United," who command special treatment as they fill Washington's pockets with money to create those tax-cuts and subsidies (and wars) that make them richer at our expense. Of course, to help you ignore this, the GOP simply tells you that "the left" just want to create a class war, in which you swallow and continue to vote against your own interests.
 

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The failure on your end in this regard is that everyone shares the same criteria for what drives them to the polls. Everything from ideology, to likability play factors in how people vote. You tend to project your values on everyone and assume all must think the same.

55% apparently do share the same ideology because it is money that puts food on the table, clothes on the backs, and a roof over their head. The fact that you are well off seems to not give you a lot of credibility when it comes to others. It is interesting however how dependence doesn't resonate with you with all that so called spending in the name of compassion. Is it truly compassionate making people dependent or allowing them to keep more of what they earn so they can create their own compassion?
 

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See? You present four examples of that partisan nonsense you cling to:

1) "The Left, the Left, the left!" Strange that you complain about "the left" placing all blame on the President, when for eight years (2008-2016) you people spent enormous energy seeking to place all blame on the President. If I turn FOX News on right now, will I see them feeding you this BS? The reason you continue to prove clueless is that you are stuck within the partisan game that the GOP and FOX News insists upon you.

2) Trump is not to blame for 2019's 2.3% or 2.1% (depending on how you look at it). He is merely the President at the time, which means whatever he does will only slightly hurt or only slightly improve, but nothing that will promote him as the economic Savior you people want him to be. But since you have spent years seeking ways to place the economy's recovery into solely Obama's pocket, while ignoring the GOP's officially documented conduct to actually obstruct that recovery, you are stuck having to defend Trump, who is not solely responsible for the economy. A history lesson should suffice: After the Great Depression got underway, Roosevelt and Congress began creating a safety net to inject confidence into the capitalist and democratic system. This did not fix the problem. Still, we needed a World War that demanded massive cash injections into the national system and to correct the economic melt down across Europe that hurt our recovery. Funny how we continue to use Defense to do this.

3) The use of "entitlements" is a Democrat mistake that feeds into the GOP's propaganda against "socialism," in which Conservatives don't even bother to look up. Since you pay taxes, and these taxes should be about the people, Democrats should call them "earned benefits." Perhaps the greatest display of partisan ignorance in our country comes from the fact that half of those who receive government-sponsored health care and retirement in their old age are Conservatives who are outraged about "socialism" and "entitlements."

When you address the following we can have a discussion, ignoring them and pontificating the left wing position does nothing but divert from the real issues that drive the American electorate. Percentage growth may make you feel good but think the American people give a damn when seeing their bank account, their 401k, road construction everywhere, states and local governments spending money?

Class envy, jealousy, and politics of personal destruction really resonate with you and the left wing today. How has any rich person hurt you or your family? You seem to care more about what others earn and pay in taxes than the actual results

Why is it you people have a problem explaining where the state and local governments get their revenue and the effect of higher federal taxes on that revenue?

DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18715.0 490.2
2017 19519.4 804.4
2018 20580.2 1006.1 Notice the drop from 697 billion growth to 490 billion growth then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now approaching 22 trillion


Then there is this which Trump inherited and the comparison today. Anyone that claims the GDP growth now is similar to what Obama had is the true hack and totally has no credibility

2016 GDP growth 490 billion 1.6% annual vs 804 billion annual growth to over a trillion in 2018-2019
Unemployment Rate 4.7% January 2017 vs. 3.5% today

Employed 152.2 million January 2017 to 158.8 million today so 6 million job growth from 2008 to 2017(146 million to 152 million) is celebrated but 6.6 million growth I the last two years isn't!! LOL

U-6 in January 2017 9.3% vs 6.7% today? Wow!! 2.6% better U-6 obviously meaningless to you

Part time for economic reasons, 5.7 million January 2017 vs. 4.3 million today? Looks to me that incredible job growth you claim was boosted by part time jobs

African American unemployment 8.0% vs. 5.9% today? That explains the surge in support from African Americans for Trump
 

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It is, but not by much anymore on average. Excluding the recession Obama averaged 2.1%. Trump is at 2.5%. And we got it while having lower taxes on everyone and corporations.

But cut everything. You name it, Ill cut it. Lets start with a 10% across the board cut. Or just no spending increases for 5 years. Or pick anything in here that cuts spending. Im ok with even a gradual decrease over time so long as we actually get there, start to pay of the debt and stay there.

Options for Reducing the Deficit: 2019 to 2028 | Congressional Budget Office

What makes you think cutting Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, SNAP, etc. by 10% so that we can fund tax-cuts to corporations and billionaires is good policy?
 

Kushinator

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My point exactly, 1.9 to 2.4 in 8 years vs. 2.4 to almost 2.8 in 3 years. Thank you for posting data with actual numbers. You like the slope but ignore the numbers

Record state and local receipts every year since 2011.
 

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And yet you still don't get it, Nominal dollars mean nothing to people living for today.

:lamo

Are you really this ignorant? Let me translate: nominal dollars or current dollars are what you like to call GDP dollars. Real GDP is adjusted for inflation. I made no reference to rGDP. You've just shown to everyone in this thread that you don't understand the terminology... and that's a signal that these discussions are well above your head.

Nominal GDP growth (or dollar growth as you say) fell from $1.06 billion to $848 billion in 2019. When that happened in 2016, you claimed the economy was lousy. What do you have to say for yourself?

Again 3% growth doesn't resonate with the American people but more personal income, more state and local spending, more charitable giving does as does the trillion dollars in GDP Growth

You're confused.
 

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:lamo

Are you really this ignorant? Let me translate: nominal dollars or current dollars are what you like to call GDP dollars. Real GDP is adjusted for inflation. I made no reference to rGDP. You've just shown to everyone in this thread that you don't understand the terminology... and that's a signal that these discussions are well above your head.

Nominal GDP growth (or dollar growth as you say) fell from $1.06 billion to $848 billion in 2019. When that happened in 2016, you claimed the economy was lousy. What do you have to say for yourself?



You're confused.

No, the problem is you cannot even read your own line graphs showing dollars. You seem to be very confused as your line graphs support me not you. As for dollar growth, that is a lie, it has not fallen to 848 billion as the 21.7 trillion economy shows growth of 837 billion dollars

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: January 30, 2020 - Next Release Date February 27, 2020
Line 201720182019
Q1Q2Q3Q4Q1Q2Q3Q4Q1Q2Q3Q4
1 Gross domestic product19190.419356.619611.719918.920163.220510.220749.820897.821098.821340.321542.521734.3
 
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ElChupacabra

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55% apparently do share the same ideology because it is money that puts food on the table, clothes on the backs, and a roof over their head. The fact that you are well off seems to not give you a lot of credibility when it comes to others. It is interesting however how dependence doesn't resonate with you with all that so called spending in the name of compassion. Is it truly compassionate making people dependent or allowing them to keep more of what they earn so they can create their own compassion?

Money does put food on the table, but as always you ignore all other aspects of why people vote for leaders. There have been very few points in this country's history where one leader has been responsible for people not having money to put food on the table and any of the other necessities. By your standard, I shouldn't bother voting because all past presidents have not stood in the way of either my parents or myself from putting food on the table, keep a roof over our heads, or keep clothes on our backs. That I'm doing well off now makes me appreciate the sacrifices my parents made to raise us in a high crime environment. They did everything they could to reinforce good values, and spent much of what they earned on private schooling. I worked my way through college, and what's interesting to see now is how hard that would be to do nowadays.

Your whole premise on dependence is pretty flawed; an extreme idea that any assistance makes every single person dependent to the point they're not competitive. That's a position not supported in reality since many of the other industrialized nations in the world manage to fund some of the life essentials without creating a populace of uncompetitive zombies. Now, if the money people got to keep would help in any significant way toward affordable healthcare or college costs etc., then I would agree it makes sense to avoid publicly funded assistance for some necessities. However, since the average amount the middle class is keeping as a result of the tax cut (~$1,000) is not going to do that, you have to question how that helps in the broader perspective.
 
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Kushinator

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No, the problem is you cannot even read your own line graphs showing dollars.

The data has been provided for you in a clear and concise manner. Nominal GDP growth fell.

You seem to be very confused as your line graphs support me not you

GDP growth fell. Your own (weak) logic has gotten the best of you.

fredgraph.png
 

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Do you ever address the actual results or simply post left wing talking points? Tax cuts for the rich???? Why do you give a damn...

First, I never hinge on mere talking points. That is ignorant. That isn't really even your shtick. Your shtick is that you present the manipulated garbage and avoidance distractions that is filtered through FOX News personalities and right-wing propaganda. I clearly, and very obviously, make the proper factual arguments that even you should be making. Instead, you cling to "socialism" and "the left" (and others) and push realty through a right-wing prism in order to create a world-view that satisfies you.

Second, I care because I understand that economic disparity is a major ingredient to failed states in history. Maybe instead of enjoying Trump's "**** hole" comment, you should actually look into what has helped make them the ****-holes that they are. The GOP's driving goal for decades has been to promote more and more economic disparity because their entire purpose is to please their benefactors. While you are at it, you might want to look up these **** hole's populist leaders who raged (and rage) against the media, the "deep state," and how all other politicians are enemies of the constitution that needs "protection."

Ultimately, I care because I am one of the few remaining Americans who actually cares about my country's well being. The reason you can't fathom such a sentiment is because you are a right-wing "chicken hawk" who's entire sense of winning is based on the idea that the GOP "wins," no matter the cost. You elected a draft-dodging elitist who promised to "drain the swamp," while raging against the media and other politicians, and who went on to greatly increase the revenue of the wealthy at the expense of the Middle Class.

Populist = A person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

Demagogue = A political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.

In the meantime, he has bumbled his way through a contradictory and in-comprehensive Foreign Policy. He has done all of this, because he tapped into your created irrational emotions about "the left" and has held them. And as history has shown us, Conservatives, even American ones, have the tendency to promote their own selfish wants above all else. However, today's American Conservative is so ate up with bitter irrational hatred (like early twentieth-century Germans) that they haven't the time to discover that the GOP is no longer a Conservative Party that represents them; it is a radical right-wing Party that caters to the wealthy while inciting your confused and misguided rage.

READ. READ. READ.

The Party Is Over: How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless, and the Middle Class Got Shafted

How Democracies Die

Why the West Rules--for Now: The Patterns of History, and What They Reveal About the Future

Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis

Death of Democracy

How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them

Perhaps if you read, you would care to.
 

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Money does put food on the table, but as always you ignore all other aspects of why people vote for leaders. There have been very few points in this country's history where one leader has been responsible for people not having money to put food on the table and any of the other necessities. By your standard, I shouldn't bother voting because all past presidents have not stood in the way of either my parents or myself from putting food on the table, keep a roof over our heads, or keep clothes on our backs. That I'm doing well off now makes me appreciate the sacrifices my parents made to raise us in a high crime environment. They did everything they could to reinforce good values, and spent much of what they earned on private schooling. I worked my way through college, and what's interesting to see now is how hard that would be to do nowadays.

Your whole premise on dependence is pretty flawed; an extreme idea that any assistance makes every single person dependent to the point they're not competitive. That's a position not supported in reality since many of the other industrialized nations in the world manage to fund some of the life essentials without creating a populace of uncompetitive zombies. Now, if the money people got to keep would help in any significant way toward affordable healthcare or college costs etc., then I would agree it makes sense to avoid publicly funded assistance for some necessities. However, since the average amount the middle class is keeping as a result of the tax cut (~$1,000) is not going to do that, you have to question how that helps in the broader perspective.

People voting on a President for local issues is a mistake the left keep selling. Our President is responsible for two major issues, PROVIDING FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE and PROMOTING DOMESTIC WELFARE. On both issues Trump is succeeding
 

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First, I never hinge on mere talking points. That is ignorant. That isn't really even your shtick. Your shtick is that you present the manipulated garbage and avoidance distractions that is filtered through FOX News personalities and right-wing propaganda. I clearly, and very obviously, make the proper factual arguments that even you should be making. Instead, you cling to "socialism" and "the left" (and others) and push realty through a right-wing prism in order to create a world-view that satisfies you.

Second, I care because I understand that economic disparity is a major ingredient to failed states in history. Maybe instead of enjoying Trump's "**** hole" comment, you should actually look into what has helped make them the ****-holes that they are. The GOP's driving goal for decades has been to promote more and more economic disparity because their entire purpose is to please their benefactors. While you are at it, you might want to look up these **** hole's populist leaders who raged (and rage) against the media, the "deep state," and how all other politicians are enemies of the constitution that needs "protection."

Ultimately, I care because I am one of the few remaining Americans who actually cares about my country's well being. The reason you can't fathom such a sentiment is because you are a right-wing "chicken hawk" who's entire sense of winning is based on the idea that the GOP "wins," no matter the cost. You elected a draft-dodging elitist who promised to "drain the swamp," while raging against the media and other politicians, and who went on to greatly increase the revenue of the wealthy at the expense of the Middle Class.

Populist = A person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

Demagogue = A political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.

In the meantime, he has bumbled his way through a contradictory and in-comprehensive Foreign Policy. He has done all of this, because he tapped into your created irrational emotions about "the left" and has held them. And as history has shown us, Conservatives, even American ones, have the tendency to promote their own selfish wants above all else. However, today's American Conservative is so ate up with bitter irrational hatred (like early twentieth-century Germans) that they haven't the time to discover that the GOP is no longer a Conservative Party that represents them; it is a radical right-wing Party that caters to the wealthy while inciting your confused and misguided rage.

READ. READ. READ.

The Party Is Over: How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless, and the Middle Class Got Shafted

How Democracies Die

Why the West Rules--for Now: The Patterns of History, and What They Reveal About the Future

Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis

Death of Democracy

How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them

Perhaps if you read, you would care to.

What you don't understand is the role of the state and local governments along with the personal responsibility of the American people that is boosted by keeping more of what they earn
 

Kushinator

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No, the problem is you cannot even read your own line graphs showing dollars. You seem to be very confused as your line graphs support me not you. As for dollar growth, that is a lie, it has not fallen to 848 billion as the 21.7 trillion economy shows growth of 837 billion dollars

You're still not comprehending the failure of your own logic. Nominal GDP grew by $1060 billion in 2018. Nominal GDP grew by $848 billion in 2019. That's a decline of roughly $162 billion from 2018 to 2019.

Again... your weak logic works against you.
 
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ElChupacabra

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People voting on a President for local issues is a mistake the left keep selling. Our President is responsible for two major issues, PROVIDING FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE and PROMOTING DOMESTIC WELFARE. On both issues Trump is succeeding

The thing is people see some of these issues as more than just local issues. Clearly you fail to see that the president is perceived as the leader of the nation, and as such speaks to national issues; "promoting domestic welfare" can certainly encompass issues like access to healthcare and education.
 

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What you don't understand is the role of the state and local governments along with the personal responsibility of the American people that is boosted by keeping more of what they earn

But if the amount you're keeping from what you earn doesn't help toward the major life expenditures, what is there to really be celebrating? If the amount of extra money I kept made affording non-employer provided healthcare possible, then sure, that makes sense because keeping more of what I earn affords me various options. This isn't the case though.
 
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I'm unaware of anyone who "literally foamed at the mouth", but then I don't really let people like that worry me, so...

I’m sorry MM, I think you objecting to my ""literally foamed at the mouth" is just a dodge. I just don’t believe you are unaware of conservatives’ non-stop and unreasonable concern for deficits (is that better?) under President Obama. And now they sit obediently quiet as trump balloons the deficit. Dodging my point doesn’t change those facts.

Anyhoo, at least you now know taxes (or lack of them) are part of the problem. And now you know that the tax cuts did not in any way produce the growth trump promised. Trump ballooned the deficit in a growing economy and he can’t even beat President Obama’s growth.
 

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It's been a boondoggle so far, because the technology wasn't there. Political hacks and extremists pushing for stuff that isn't technically ready. That's not how to be profitable. That's why the free market approach works, and the socialist approach doesn't.
That's why you take leadership. When you define the technology, you define it in ways that benefit yourself. In practical terms, corporate chieftains meet and work with the appropriate government agencies and leadership to define a geo-economical-political-strategic-security advantage. This is done strategically.

If some other state or coalition defines the prevalent technologies they will do so on their terms, which will likely benefit them and not you. A prime example of this might be something China's Huawei. If Huawei defines the dominate technology in say 5G, we will be at an extreme disadvantage globally. We are already seeing this with Huawei's current technologies. Well, ditto for energy sources.
 

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What you don't understand is the role of the state and local governments along with the personal responsibility of the American people that is boosted by keeping more of what they earn

Again, another "what you don't understand..." in order to promote a self-delusional spin agenda. When one actually tries to brand the globally understood Great Recession as just a minor event in order to exaggerate his need to denigrate Obama, the "you don't understand" matters little. Two points of common sense in which education is not necessary:

- The evidence is clear. The Great Recession proved that Trickle-Down is a con. The wealthy do not create jobs unless the economy tells them that there's money in it, which means that consumers create the jobs, while the wealthy wait. With banks, industry, and and corporations receiving bail-outs, sitting on cash, firing and seizing, clearly they weren't trying to create anything.

- A tax-cut that gives a middle-class family a temporary few extra hundred dollars a year (at best) does not give that family the economic means to change anything or really do anything with. Did you buy more Doritos? However, the tax-cuts that the wealthy increasingly gets has created the 1%, which increasingly captures more and more of America's wealth in the hands of the few who do not invest back into society unless it guarantees even more revenue, in which they turn to their Republican Senators to create even more tax-cuts. The GOP's clear agenda has been to tax the least well-off (as the recent tax-cut proved) while cutting taxes on the wealthy (as the recent tax-cut also proved), the ones who finance the GOP's campaigns and give them a job. So, in a way, I guess the wealthy are job creators in Washington, huh? Strange how you people couldn't figure that out when, despite two ongoing wars and a global recession, Republicans moved to cut taxes every damn year under Bush (a first in American history).

And make no mistake, my partisan Hercules: Democrats cater to the wealthy too. The difference is that the GOP's agenda is solely focused on it, while pretending to you that it cares about your ideological feelings. For example: They will champion the crusade against illegal immigration because you like hearing it. But they help you to ignore the fact that American farmers across America, who hire illegals, routinely vote Republican. Why? Because they know from experience that the rhetoric is BS. In the meantime, the GOP will go with the "build the wall" nonsense as long as it doesn't interfere with their main goal of protecting the wealthy and increasing military spending so that they can look "patriotic."

Stop trying to bend your way around the common sense and start acknowledging that it is you who does not understand. Only then will you start to learn. I certainly didn't become one of our planet's smartest people by refusing to learn. Don't fall for any of Trump's "wisest man" crap. He's never even at our meetings.
 
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MSgt

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It's been a boondoggle so far, because the technology wasn't there. Political hacks and extremists pushing for stuff that isn't technically ready. That's not how to be profitable. That's why the free market approach works, and the socialist approach doesn't.

Good grief. Didn't you used to love my posts years ago? Hating "the Left" means nothing if you can't even identify why you hate it, or what is ****ed up in "the right." Democrats are uselessly weak; Republicans are dangerously reckless. Understand this truism:

- Socialism is for the wealthy; whereas capitalism is for the rest.

The notion of a "free market" is partly an illusion. It wasn't schemed as such, but where governments and corporations are involved, it becomes a charade. Corporations (the wealthy) routinely go to government (Senators) and demand tax-cuts and subsidies in order to give their corporation a competitive edge over others. And when the government turns around and passes law that strengthens corporations (and the wealthy) with our tax money, the government is practicing aspects of economic socialism and economic fascism. It is being selective to certain industries that strengthen (or not) the nation while feeding ever more money into the hands of the well off. Thus, the "free market" is left to the mom-and-pop shops that have to compete with the Wal-Marts and the Senator John Does. You see, they can't afford to make a Senator bend government towards their economic needs. All they have is the idea of a "free market" while Walmart and the government ****s down their throats...while waving the American flag.

Another truth is that we are a capitalist nation that embraces socialist programs in order to preserve and protect that capitalism. Roosevelt and Churchill were correct in the 1930s when they witnessed one democratic/capitalist European country after another fall to communism and fascism. With capitalism unchecked, and without provided security to the people, they will lose faith in the system and turn to extremists who "have the answer." This is exactly why America saw the "New Deal" and the British saw similar mechanisms. Now, this did not fix the economy. Various government projects around the country eased the pain for only some. But it did give people comfort and the sense of security that if capitalism goes tits up again, the government will be there to help them. This is exactly why tax-cuts plus increased spending sets us up for more pain that we have to endure. It leaves the government with no plan and no money as it defaults to bailing out those who created the disaster in the first place. We could just keep selling China (our enemy) treasury bonds I guess.
 

jonny5

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What makes you think cutting Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, SNAP, etc. by 10% so that we can fund tax-cuts to corporations and billionaires is good policy?

I feel like this debate is just going to be the same debate we always have, so Ill just leave you to your echo chamber. See you next week when you post the same thread again!
 
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