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Americans blame Trump and GOP for Shutdown

LowDown said:
As federal workers start to hurt more and more it will no longer be a question of who to blame but who is supposed to have the federal worker's backs and who is refusing to give in and thereby prolonging the agony -- the Democrats.

And all over $5 billion. I guarantee that federal workers will not understand why they must suffer so that Pelosi can be stubborn with her idiotic meme of a wall be immoral.

They don't expect Trump to be reasonable, and they don't expect him to have their backs. He's a force of nature.
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A fart is a force of nature.
 
Americans blame Trump and GOP for Shutdown
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And why shouldn't they? There is NO CRISIS at the boarder.


BUT, who was the one that promised a wall as a ploy to get elected believing he would not be elected so it was an empty promise?

Who also promised someone else would pay for his fictitious wall?

AND, who, on national TV, claimed he would be PROUD to take ownership of this shutdown.

SO? Who else should the American people blame?

Nobody but Donald Jane tRump!
 
marke said:
No wonder. No mystery. Democrats blame Trump for being intransigent and republicans blame the democrat dinosaurs for not budging. Neither is budging so it seems to me to be a matter of shared responsibility.
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The people not budging are McConnell who refuses to bring a vote to the floor and his boss Trump who told him not to. Most people are smart enough to see that.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Reading this did make me run to get another cup of coffee. And I KNOW we are looking at our 'Team A's' much differently. Anyway as I mentioned in another post, McConnell is now not allowing Team A or Team B to do 'their thing'.

This is simple. The Republicans love businesses and Corps, and businesses love immigrants, both legal and illegal because they work cheap, damn even Trump hires them . The Republicans in Congress have no intention of totally closing the border, their business donors won't allow it.. That is the reason McConnell will not allow these House bills to be voted on, he knows they will pass the Senate and override Trump's veto which will be an absolute NIGHTMARE for the GOP.. Trump's base and Trump's Fox network will revolt.

So your car and Team A and B examples don't work. Because McConnell is the wildcard right now in this whole mess.
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The bold is the fact of the week.
 
calamity said:
The people not budging are McConnell who refuses to bring a vote to the floor and his boss Trump who told him not to. Most people are smart enough to see that.
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McConnell must see this is not working with voters. Why continue. It’s possible he is hanging Trump out to dry, having finally concluded Trump is a danger to the country or a loser in 2020, and is setting him up for a primary before it is too late. Not likely maybe, but possible.
 
Interesting poll result: Support for the border wall has increased by 10%
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Reading this did make me run to get another cup of coffee. And I KNOW we are looking at our 'Team A's' much differently. Anyway as I mentioned in another post, McConnell is now not allowing Team A or Team B to do 'their thing'.

This is simple. The Republicans love businesses and Corps, and businesses love immigrants, both legal and illegal because they work cheap, damn even Trump hires them . The Republicans in Congress have no intention of totally closing the border, their business donors won't allow it.. That is the reason McConnell will not allow these House bills to be voted on, he knows they will pass the Senate and override Trump's veto which will be an absolute NIGHTMARE for the GOP.. Trump's base and Trump's Fox network will revolt.

So your car and Team A and B examples don't work. Because McConnell is the wildcard right now in this whole mess.
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What if McConnell has concluded that Trump himself is a nightmare going forward for the GOP? Would not be a senseless conclusion and might explain his present silence.
 
JackA said:
What if McConnell has concluded that Trump himself is a nightmare going forward for the GOP? Would not be a senseless conclusion and might explain his present silence.
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Trump lost them the House. And,if not for ND, Indy and MO, he’d have lost them the Senate as well. In 2020, when swing state R’s are up for re-election, Trump’s presence will cost them that and the White House.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Here's another scenario for you if you don't want to answer the other one. One that isn't using a crime as an example...

You have two teams working on a big corporation project. Both are supposed to carry out an objective by working together.

Team A believes that doing the objective one way would be the best route to go. Team B believes that Team A is wrong and should go about it in another way. Both sides keep arguing about how to accomplish the objective until the due date for the project to finish comes along and nothing is done. Should the CEO fire both teams? Or just the one that argued the most?
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If team A is attempting to use means that fall outside of corporate policy, team A's leader should be FIRED. So kindly FIRE Trump no later than the next election.
 
marke said:
No wonder. No mystery. Democrats blame Trump for being intransigent and republicans blame the democrat dinosaurs for not budging. Neither is budging so it seems to me to be a matter of shared responsibility.
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I watch very little TV, but even I, through the magic of internet streaming, saw trump tell Senator Schumer that: "I will take the mantel, I will be proud to shut it down, I will be proud to take ownership of the shutdown". Those I's are Donald Jane Trump speaking … or you can view them as Roman Numerals if you want, as in "Individual I", AKA Donald Jane Trump. Same, Same! Both sides of the equation resolve to little hands djt.

You're right It's NO MYSTERY djt OWNS the shutdown.<--PERIOD!!!!:2wave:
 
Greenbeard said:
That bill passed unanimously in the Senate a few weeks ago.

This is a manufactured crisis. And it's being manufactured by Trump and the GOP.
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CITATION PLEASE.

To my knowledge no appropriations bill was passed "unanimously" or not by the Senate a few weeks ago. If so it would have required a Presidential veto to fail.

Please cite the report of such an appropriations bill "passing unanimously in the Senate a few weeks ago" that Trump vetoed.

The lame-duck Republican controlled House did pass a bill with 5.7 Billion allocated as Trump requested, but the Democrats refused to vote on it in the Senate, and absent cloture which required 60 votes, it failed in the Senate.
 
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DarkWizard12 said:
Interesting poll result: Support for the border wall has increased by 10%
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That would be interesting if a poll result actually was justification for and a description of this Wall that only exists between Trump's ears.

Thankfully, ABC does provide access to the entire Poll. The increase in Wall support is mainly from Republicans who have decide to succumb to the coercion of their champion resulting in a 16% increase in their support. Independent support is up 11% and Dem support is up 10% as some percentage of them succumb at least via poll to the same coercion.

Polls only give you just so much data.
 
Greenbeard said:
Senate passes stop-gap funding bill in effort to avert government shutdown

All the Senate needs to do is vote again. Crisis over.
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Not quite.

A shutdown hasn't been averted just yet: The measure will still need to be approved by the House of Representatives and signed by President Donald Trump before it can take effect.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/poli...trump-border-wall/index.html?no-st=1547390377

And then it was sent back to the House, which added money for the Wall.

House Passes Bill With Money For Trump Wall, Increasing Likelihood Of A Shutdown. December 20, 201810:10 AM ET
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https://www.npr.org/2018/12/20/6786...ill-house-likely-to-act-today-avoiding-shutdo

You're welcome. :coffeepap:
 
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jnug said:
That would be interesting if a poll result actually was justification for and a description of this Wall that only exists between Trump's ears.

Thankfully, ABC does provide access to the entire Poll. The increase in Wall support is mainly from Republicans who have decide to succumb to the coercion of their champion resulting in a 16% increase in their support. Independent support is up 11% and Dem support is up 10% as some percentage of them succumb at least via poll to the same coercion.

Polls only give you just so much data.
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That wasn't what I was trying to say though. I already think a wall is a good, and I already know many liberals are against it. OK. It's whatever. It's not worth my time to address "justifications". I want a wall and I don't care one iota how it's accomplished, or what nonsensical philosophy says about it. I want a wall, and I want a wall now, justifications are for another day.

But I wanted to note the change because it's not really intuitive. Why would 10% of independents and democrats suddenly support a wall, despite increased polling against republicans? I think it just shows you how quickly public attitudes can change, and certainly, if the democrats do end up folding, we'll see much more favorable opinions for the wall, and maybe even for the president. It's a lot of risk, but a lot of reward.
 
Americans blame Trump and GOP for Shutdown
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there's a good reason for that.
 
Greenbeard said:
The House is no longer interested in adding that money. The House is now in agreement with the Senate and has passed its bill. This crisis is being manufactured by Trump and the GOP.
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"agreement with the senate" The senate wasn't in agreement. McConnel had no choice because the democrats would filibuster.
 
Greenbeard said:
The House is no longer interested in adding that money. The House is now in agreement with the Senate and has passed its bill. This crisis is being manufactured by Trump and the GOP.
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Meaning the Senate majority has decided NOT to support the CR until money is added for the wall.

Now if they do agree with the new House CR, then of course it will go to Trump to sign or veto.

But claiming something occurred back in December 2018 that was not completely true, does not win arguments. :coffeepap:
 
Captain Adverse said:
Not quite.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/poli...trump-border-wall/index.html?no-st=1547390377

And then it was sent back to the House, which added money for the Wall.



https://www.npr.org/2018/12/20/6786...ill-house-likely-to-act-today-avoiding-shutdo

You're welcome. :coffeepap:
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Wrong...the Original House Bill passed the House BEFORE the events referred to by the poster. The Senate never even voted on that CR. The Senate passed the "clean" CR he refers to by voice vote ( therefore unanimously). The House never voted on that one as Trump's flip flop on the CR only caught McConnell off guard. The House would have also passed the clean CR if Ryan had brought it to the floor. Ryan was spared the embarrassment of being left with his pants around his ankles. McConnell wasn't. Then Ryan brought back the CR that had already failed.

We can go around in circles like this forever. Trump is not getting the figment of his imagination...his wall and government won't open until Trump and McConnell say it will open.
 
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DarkWizard12 said:
"agreement with the senate" The senate wasn't in agreement. McConnel had no choice because the democrats would filibuster.
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Passage of legislation is the definition of agreement. The Senate agreed to the Dems’ approach.
 
Greenbeard said:
The House is no longer interested in adding that money. The House is now in agreement with the Senate and has passed its bill. This crisis is being manufactured by Trump and the GOP.
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The House passed a bill that Trump has agreed to sign. It is sitting in the senate because Schumer and the dems are filibustering it. What McConnell should do is bring that House bill up for a vote in the Senate and let dems vote it down.
 
jnug said:
Wrong...the Original House Bill passed the House BEFORE the events referred to by the poster. The Senate never even voted on that CR. The Senate passed the "clean" CR he refers to by voice vote ( therefore unanimously). The House never voted on that one as Trump's flip flop on the CR only caught McConnell off guard. The House would have also passed the clean CR if Ryan had brought it to the floor. Ryan was spared the embarrassment of being left with his pants around his ankles. McConnell wasn't.
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I believe you need to go back to "Schoolhouse Rock." In order for the spending bill to clear as was cited in the CNN report provided by Greenbeard, it required a return to the House of Representatives (where ALL tax and spend bills must be approved) for a final vote.

Did they vote for money for the wall? Yes. Did they vote to amend otherwise? No. Case closed. :shrug:
 
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