Americans Are Dying In The Pandemic At Rates Far Higher Than In Other Countries

[Vern]

I did all that, and I looked at the actual data myself, and it confirms that the OP is false. It's not true that "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

According to the study, and according to the Johns Hopkins database, they are "paralleled" in quite a few other countries, including a significant portion of those countries anyone would call "wealthy" ones.

You know T, you're not the first person to post "nuh uh, JH says otherwise" and then post nothing (the other guy is documented liar and "thought" it was my job to look up the data myself). Lets do this, lets actually look at the actual table in the study that your "mystery" JH data proves wrong. Yep, that shows exactly what the study said. Look how horrible our death rate is since May 10 or even June 7. We even blow Sweden out of the water when they didn't even try to contain it. Hopefully you simply admit it was an innocent mistake on your part instead of trying to play semantic games because the study was clear about what it said and the data shows it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I listed 4 countries that have been worse or equal to the US, and one more that is very close and rapidly getting worse far faster than the US. How is that "nuh uh"?

You might want to take a look at

​

and get back to us.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I did all that, and I looked at the actual data myself, and it confirms that the OP is false. It's not true that "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

According to the study, and according to the Johns Hopkins database, they are "paralleled" in quite a few other countries, including a significant portion of those countries anyone would call "wealthy" ones.

You are quite correct. The US does NOT have the highest "Deaths per Million" rate. Why there are 9 superpower nations that have much higher "Deaths per Million" rates than the US does.

[SOURCE]​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I did all that, and I looked at the actual data myself, and it confirms that the OP is false. It's not true that "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

According to the study, and according to the Johns Hopkins database, they are "paralleled" in quite a few other countries, including a significant portion of those countries anyone would call "wealthy" ones.

Have you looked at

​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

How did you decide which states were "Red" or "Blue" ...

The determination of which states are "Red" and which states are "Blue" is made by Vaughn's Summaries and is based on the 2016 election results. I'm more than willing to consider any intelligent and logical argument as to whether a specific state should be considered either a "Red" or a "Blue" state, but let's do that by PM - OK?

...and why do you think that's relevant?

Personally I don't but it appears that a whole lot of "Conservatives" seem to think it is?

Also, did you take straight averages of individual state values, or are your averages weighted by population?

As the tables make clear, the numbers (in the right hand section) are on the basis of "per million".

You can get a whole lot more information at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19.

 

[Vern]

I did all that, and I looked at the actual data myself, and it confirms that the OP is false. It's not true that "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

According to the study, and according to the Johns Hopkins database, they are "paralleled" in quite a few other countries, including a significant portion of those countries anyone would call "wealthy" ones.

hey timrin, did you figure out yet what you misinterpreted from the study I posted or the study from JH you claimed to have read?

 

[Noodlegawd]

hey timrin, did you figure out yet what you misinterpreted from the study I posted or the study from JH you claimed to have read?

When did you establish that I misinterpreted anything from the study?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

hey timrin, did you figure out yet what you misinterpreted from the study I posted or the study from JH you claimed to have read?

Well, the actual data

[SOURCE]


[SOURCE]​

(since the US is NOT the number one ranked country on either of those lists) does not quite support the statement "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world." - does it?

On the other hand, if you want to compare the US with comparable countries/areas

​

it wouldn't be unfair to say that the US does rank right in the middle (unless you look at the "Death Chance vs USA" column in which case the US ranks last).

 

[element94]

Here's what's truly disturbing, the once bastion of science, the U.S.A. leads the world in total deaths.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093256/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-deaths-worldwide-by-country/

 

[azgreg]

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Here's what's truly disturbing, the once bastion of science, the U.S.A. leads the world in total deaths.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093256/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-deaths-worldwide-by-country/

That's only because they spent a lot of time and effort debating which cut thumb should get the world's best bandage (and who should pay for it) on a patient with a sucking chest wound.

 

[element94]

That's only because they spent a lot of time and effort debating which cut thumb should get the world's best bandage (and who should pay for it) on a patient with a sucking chest wound.

It's a number the radical right cannot dispute. There are countries with way more population (China, India) than the U.S, yet they have 100,000 to 200,000 less deaths.

 

[Vern]

it wouldn't be unfair to say that the US does rank right in the middle (unless you look at the "Death Chance vs USA" column in which case the US ranks last).

Its not the death rate from the beginning. The study broke out the death rate since May 10 and June 7. It why it says " people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world ". And your graph shows it perfectly. See how everybody else's curve has flattened. The slope of our curve continues upward. And thats what study show. Look at the table my post 76 above. So of the 20 "rich" countries we are by far the worst hence "unparalleled". We are almost 3 times worse than Sweden and they did nothing.

Have you looked at

View attachment 67300178

 

[CaughtInThe]

Death is a natural part of life. You have no right to live at the expense of another’s livliehood

you post like you're broke.

that's not our fault.

 

[Vern]

When did you establish that I misinterpreted anything from the study?

er uh Tirmin, we established that when you posted "nuh uh, JH said something different so your OP is false". Here, read your own words

I did all that, and I looked at the actual data myself, and it confirms that the OP is false. It's not true that "During this pandemic, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

According to the study, and according to the Johns Hopkins database, they are "paralleled" in quite a few other countries, including a significant portion of those countries anyone would call "wealthy" ones.

The study showed exactly what it said. And look TU Curmudgeon's first graph. See how everybody's total deaths has flattened. Show how the US curve is still shooting up. People are still dying but not at the "unparalleled" rates like the US. And if you actually look at the table, you'd see that. and T, I cant confirm what you "looked at" because you're not posting it. This is a debate forum not a chatroom.

 

[element94]

The glaring fact that the U.S. has, by far, the most Covid-19 deaths in the world must mean it leads the world in other categories, such as stupidity. This is a country that almost half the people will argue with and defy scientists and science because of political beliefs, while the pandemic death rate continues to go up and up. That is a new level of willful stupidity heretofore unseen by the world.

 

[Noodlegawd]

The study showed exactly what it said.

Brilliant observation. The study "showed" that the US has a higher death rate than "other countries" (i.e., countries that were cherry-picked from those with the lowest rates). Other data that I cited shows that the US has a lower death rate than "other countries." This makes the OP's claim false. This is not rocket science. Why is this so hard to understand.

And look TU Curmudgeon's first graph.

You mean the graph that leaves out Spain and Belgium, ignores the fact that case rates and death rates throughout Europe are rapidly increasing (while that in the US is not), and shows that the death rate in the US is actually paralleled by that in the UK and Italy?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's a number the radical right cannot dispute. There are countries with way more population (China, India) than the U.S, yet they have 100,000 to 200,000 less deaths.

I guess that you have missed all of the "The _[fill in the blank]_ are lying about their deaths.", the "The American -[fill in the blank]_ is lying about American deaths.", the "All the data is false.", the "The whole think is a Clinton/Obama plot to overturn the results of the 2016 election.", and the "There is no such thing as that so-called 'COVID-19'." posts that emanate from "The (American) Right" (I'd say "radical right" if I were to use the word "radical" in its original sense BUT that would only confuse people).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Its not the death rate from the beginning. The study broke out the death rate since May 10 and June 7. It why it says " people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world ". And your graph shows it perfectly. See how everybody else's curve has flattened. The slope of our curve continues upward. And thats what study show. Look at the table my post 76 above. So of the 20 "rich" countries we are by far the worst hence "unparalleled". We are almost 3 times worse than Sweden and they did nothing.

The graph shows the INCREASE in rate and does not show the rate simpliciter.

I'll grant you "unparalleled" if you restrict it to the 20 "rich" countries, but NOT if you insist it include EVERY other country.

PS - If you didn't notice the degree of sarcasm involved in comparing the US with San Marino, peru, Belgium, Andorra, Bolivia, Brazil, Spain, Chile, and Ecuador (as if those countries had the resources to combat COVID-19 that the US does)

​

then I suggest that you take yourself down to your nearest AKME authorized dealer and purchase a new AKME Mk.3 Sarcasm Detector.

 

[Vern]

Brilliant observation. The study "showed" that the US has a higher death rate than "other countries" (i.e., countries that were cherry-picked from those with the lowest rates). Other data that I cited shows that the US has a lower death rate than "other countries." This makes the OP's claim false. This is not rocket science. Why is this so hard to understand.

You mean the graph that leaves out Spain and Belgium, ignores the fact that case rates and death rates throughout Europe are rapidly increasing (while that in the US is not), and shows that the death rate in the US is actually paralleled by that in the UK and Italy?

Just to be clear, you cited no data. You assured us you saw something that disproves the OP. And you can flail at the graph TU posted if you want but it clearly showed the that our total death rate still shooting up.. If you dont like TU's graph then ignore it. I figured a graph would make it easier for you to understand that other countries' death rates have collapsed.

The Study I posted showed exactly what it said it showed. It looked at all rich countries over 5 million population. Our current death rate is unparalleled compared to the other rich countries. The study is the study. And Spain and Belgium (and even Sweden) were in the study I posted. Flailing with "nuh uh" changes nothing. So you either misunderstood what the study said or you misunderstood the "mystery" data you say exists at JH. And T, I cant really rule out the possibility of dishonesty on your part because I'm having the exact same conversation with humbolt. It's easy to see he's lying and knows it.

Now since you've also posted "nuh uh, cherry picking", what country rich country with over 5 million people did it leave off the list (remembering Spain, Belgium and even Sweden were in the study). Its your claim, please elaborate.

 

[element94]

I guess that you have missed all of the "The _[fill in the blank]_ are lying about their deaths.", the "The American -[fill in the blank]_ is lying about American deaths.", the "All the data is false.", the "The whole think is a Clinton/Obama plot to overturn the results of the 2016 election.", and the "There is no such thing as that so-called 'COVID-19'." posts that emanate from "The (American) Right" (I'd say "radical right" if I were to use the word "radical" in its original sense BUT that would only confuse people).

I haven't missed it. It's all the same old lying and denying for that thing in the WH. Truly a curious spectacle.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Just to be clear, you cited no data.

You can bury your head in the sand all you want. I listed the countries, several times now, and referred to the database that everyone involved in this discussion knows about. If you want to defend the OP's false claim, go get the numbers yourself and prove me wrong.

 

[Vern]

You can bury your head in the sand all you want. I listed the countries, several times now, and referred to the database that everyone involved in this discussion knows about. If you want to defend the OP's false claim, go get the numbers yourself and prove me wrong.

and there it is, the conservative "wah wah look it up yourself" and "prove me wrong" post with the obligatory insult. so many conservatives (and conservative like posters) resort to that I assume you have a flow chart to follow. Let me type this very very slowly. the countries you whined about/listed were in the study I posted and "wah wah everyone knows about it" is nothing but a cowardly deflection. You're simply at the point in the discussion where its time for conservatives (and conservative like posters) to choose integrity or narrative and you chose narrative. and what proves my point that you lack integrity is you are not even attempting to back up/prove/explain/justify your whiny "cherry picking" narrative let alone post a link.

so again, since May 10 or June 7, Americans are dying at unparalleled rates and the study proves it. Not only does your "nuh uh, I read something somewhere but I lack the integrity to post it" prove nothing it shows you dont give one freaking crap about America or the economy. Like most conservatives you're only worried about yourself. when you grow up, come on back and we can finish our discussion.

 

[Noodlegawd]

and there it is, the conservative "wah wah look it up yourself" and "prove me wrong" post with the obligatory insult. so many conservatives (and conservative like posters) resort to that I assume you have a flow chart to follow. Let me type this very very slowly. the countries you whined about/listed were in the study I posted and "wah wah everyone knows about it" is nothing but a cowardly deflection. You're simply at the point in the discussion where its time for conservatives (and conservative like posters) to choose integrity or narrative and you chose narrative. and what proves my point that you lack integrity is you are not even attempting to back up/prove/explain/justify your whiny "cherry picking" narrative let alone post a link.

1. Who said I was conservative? That's just another baseless claim that you're so fond of making, and a stupid ad hom at that.

2. You have an amazing double standard. You made a false claim without providing the data to back it up, yet when I make a claim and provide a citation to back it up, you're all in a tizzy.

3. The data you provided shows that your statement is a lie. According to your own chart, Belgium, Spain and the UK have had more deaths per-capita. The UK is actually a tiny bit lower than the US, but appears to be catching up in a big way. Peru, Bolivia, Equador, Chile, and Brazil have also had more deaths per capita as of today.

COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.

www.statista.com

so again, since May 10 or June 7, Americans are dying at unparalleled rates

That's not what you said. You said "DURING THIS PANDEMIC, people in the United States are currently dying at rates unparalleled elsewhere in the world."

You're just moving the goalposts now, and placing them totally arbitrarily. More cherry-picking. What's relevant about May 10 or June 7? Why don't you look at the last week? Or the entire pandemic?

 

[Vern]

1. Who said I was conservative? That's just another baseless claim that you're so fond of making, and a stupid ad hom at that.

I simply said you're acting like a conservative. and you are. Its funny that this is the first thing you address. Shows a delicate constitution.

2. You have an amazing double standard. You made a false claim without providing the data to back it up, yet when I make a claim and provide a citation to back it up, you're all in a tizzy

This is bizarre. I posted a study from the Journal of American Medical Association, a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal that that showed Americans currently dying at unparalleled rates. How does your brain convince you I made the claim and that the study didnt show exactly what the study showed? Conservatives can also easily convince themselves to believe fantasy and delusion. Your repeated and whiny "nuh uh's" dont disprove anything.

the next part deserves its own reply. I want you to be able to focus on it.