American Religious Fundamentalists Fight To Establish A Theocracy As Religion Declines In The US

[Mircea]

Do you suppose that they have the slightest inkling that one reason church participation is falling is due to the actions of the churches?

It has more to do with the separation of church and State.

Historically, any religion that lacks the support of government dies and ends up being called "myth" by those religions backed by government.

The only reason anyone knows anything about Christianity is because Emperor Constantine made it one of the official religions.

In 382 CE, Emperor Theodosius issued an edict making Christianity the only religion and all other religions were banned under penalty of death.

Christians don't even understand that Christianity comes in many flavors and they are limited to one particular flavor by government order.

In other words, the Nestorian, Manichean, Coptic, Alexandrian, Cesarean, Western, Byzantine and other flavors were banned leaving only the Nicaean flavor.

Christians are so poorly educated they don't understand that their "bible" is cobbled together from 2,813 manuscripts which range from fragments to complete verses, chapters, and books. The only complete work is Codex Sinaiticus. The other manuscripts are classified based on their particular flavor and as you might guess, they often heavily conflict.

In fact, they conflict so much that only 5 manuscripts are used when "translating" the text to create "the Bible" although the Chester Beatty scrolls and the Bodmer scrolls are each counted as one instead of being counted by the number of scrolls in each collection.

In 533 CE, Emperor Justinian of the Eastern Roman Empire wrote a letter to John the Bishop of Rome and naming him the chief persecutor of heretics.

At that time, the churches in modern-day Italy, Greece, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt were separate and independent, each headed by a bishop so there was no such thing as a "pope."

John immediately went to work murdering the bishops who wouldn't bow down to him or didn't think like him and exiled the others or they fled into exile and consolidated his power over all of the churches.

From that point on, everyone was forced into Christianity under penalty of death.

People did not voluntarily convert to Christianity but the "nobles" did. One of the Polish kings converted "voluntarily" and from that point on for everyone in Poland it was either be Catholic or have your property seize and/or be tortured and/or be executed.

Same for all the Germanic tribes in Western Europe. Then religion was rammed down the people's throats because you couldn't do anything without church approval. To be a merchant and sell your wares, you had to pay the church for a permit and then pay a tax to the church and then also tithe the church and if you didn't then you wouldn't be a merchant and you'd probably be dead.

Corporate charters were created by the Imperial Roman Catholic Church. It doesn't make sense as mayor of a village/town/city to sign your name on contracts with various guilds to build a city hall or church and have your personal assets on the line if other people don't do what they're supposed to do so the common sense thing to do is incorporate.

More than half of the wars in Europe were religious wars, not in the sense of which religion but in the sense of this guy won't bow down and kow-tow to the pope and give the pope lots of money so the pope would either sic the Holy Roman Empire on him or bank-roll someone who would take him out.

Took a long time for governments to wrest control away from the Church and it's still a work in progress and now we're moving to have governments stop bank-rolling churches and protecting them.

 

[Mircea]

Personal testimony supports and confirms Biblical truth.

Unfortunately, your personal testimony conflicts with reality.

A fanatical Christian archaeologist named Albright or Albrecht (I can never remember exactly) attempted to find the 16 named cities the Hebrews are claimed to have destroyed during the Exodus-that-never-happened.

He found 10 of those cities.

Sadly, 7 of those cities were not destroyed and show no evidence of conflict and it doesn't matter if you accept the early or late date of the Exodus-that-never-happened.

Most embarrassingly, three of those cities, namely Ai, Gibeon, and Jericho were not even inhabited.

The claim that Joshua marched around the city with the Ark and blowing his trumpet and the walls came down and the people took over the city is a false claim because the city was uninhabited and the walls are still there and you can go see them yourself.

Of the three cities that were destroyed, two of the cities were absolutely conclusively destroyed by "sea peoples."

Of the one remaining city, archaeologists cannot tell if it was destroyed by the Canaanites or the Hebrews, which are one in the same, because it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between Canaanite culture and Hebrew culture.

It would be like an archaeologist digging up a house and trying to figure out if an American or a Canadian lived there.

 

[LittleNipper]

In other words, you want your religion imposed on other people’s kids.

No thanks.

No! I didn't say that at all. What I seek is open discussion as related to the various topics the students are learning. The schools today impose a lack of discussion when any "open" discussion becomes anything other than secular. In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate. Secular values and beliefs are just as dangerous, if not more so, because at present there lacks a point/counterpoint evaluation discussion where a comparison if ideas and ideals tends to weed out questionable values.

 

[Tigerace117]

No! I didn't say that at all. What I seek is open discussion as related to the various topics the students are learning. The schools today impose a lack of discussion when any "open" discussion becomes anything other than secular. In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate. Secular values and beliefs are just as dangerous, if not more so, because at present there lacks a point/counterpoint evaluation discussion where a comparison if ideas and ideals tends to weed out questionable values.

You want kids being indoctrinated with creationist drivel. Nobody is obligated to allow present religiously motivated nonsense as fact, sorry.

 

[LittleNipper]

I see a lot of abandoned churches in my local travels. But the local Catholic church is packed on Sundays, especially on Easter. Go figure. The last time I was in one the priest from the pulpit only bitched about $$$. Hardly spiritual. If Jesus returns, is he going to help them out financially?

You may see a lot of abandoned church buildings; however, CHRIST only had a regard for people and not buildings. Case in point ---- what JESUS had to say regarding the temple in Jerusalem. I'm very sure that those that are actually following CHRIST have found other congregations with which to worship GOD. And frankly, I have noted say a "mainline" church, slowly become a social club, as it first promotes that the word of GOD isn't of necessity inerrant, that evolution is compatible with the Genesis account, that Jesus was not GOD but a good man to follow, allows for women pastors, then gay ministers, encourages gay marriage, and then finally closes... A "church" that doesn't preach the GOSPEL MESSAGE is a dead church.

 

[JacksinPA]

You may see a lot of abandoned church buildings; however, CHRIST only had a regard for people and not buildings. Case in point ---- what JESUS had to say regarding the temple in Jerusalem. I'm very sure that those that are actually following CHRIST have found other congregations with which to worship GOD. And frankly, I have noted say a "mainline" church, slowly become a social club, as it first promotes that the word of GOD isn't of necessity inerrant, that evolution is compatible with the Genesis account, that Jesus was not GOD but a good man to follow, allows for women pastors, then gay ministers, encourages gay marriage, and then finally closes... A "church" that doesn't preach the GOSPEL MESSAGE is a dead church.

Lots of dead churches around.

 

[LittleNipper]

You want kids being indoctrinated with creationist drivel. Nobody is obligated to allow present religiously motivated nonsense as fact, sorry.

You want kids led to believe that our existence is nothing but some natural accident and there is no real reason for them to exist but for some fluke of nature? And honestly, I find that there is far more philosophical and thought provoking consideration taken in creationism than much of what evolutionists "believe" happened but cannot seem to replicate. I know of no one killing his or herself believing that they existed for a reason. I do know of some who have not only killed themselves but others feeling that they had no reason to exist and became uncaring and despondent. Sorry, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[JacksinPA]

You want kids led to believe that our existence is nothing but a natural accident and there is no real reason for them to exist? And honestly, I find that there is far more philosophical and thought provoking consideration taken in creationism than much of what evolutionists "believe" happened but cannot seem to replicate. I know of no one killing his or herself believing that they existed for a reason. I do know of some who have not only killed themselves but others feeling that they had no reason to exist and became uncaring and despondent. Sorry, but the proof is in the pudding.

Yes

 

[LittleNipper]

Yes

Well, send your kid to a humanistic secular institution that you pay for. I want what is BEST for the kids at large and not just what you desire.

 

[JacksinPA]

Well, send your kid to a humanistic secular institution that you pay for. I want what is BEST for the kids at large and not just what you desire.

I don't have any kids but if I did I would not send them to any school that had any connection with cults or religions.

 

[LittleNipper]

I don't have any kids but if I did I would not send them to any school that had any connection with cults or religions.

Cults and religion are merely a system of beliefs. Only Christianity is a relationship.

 

[Somerville]

Cults and religion are merely a system of beliefs. Only Christianity is a relationship.

Yet, once again, you reveal to others your ignorance of the world outside your tiny cubicle.

 

[Gordy327]

Cults and religion are merely a system of beliefs. Only Christianity is a relationship.

Mere semantics.

 

[mrjurrs]

It has more to do with the separation of church and State.

Historically, any religion that lacks the support of government dies and ends up being called "myth" by those religions backed by government.

The only reason anyone knows anything about Christianity is because Emperor Constantine made it one of the official religions.

In 382 CE, Emperor Theodosius issued an edict making Christianity the only religion and all other religions were banned under penalty of death.

Christians don't even understand that Christianity comes in many flavors and they are limited to one particular flavor by government order.

In other words, the Nestorian, Manichean, Coptic, Alexandrian, Cesarean, Western, Byzantine and other flavors were banned leaving only the Nicaean flavor.

Christians are so poorly educated they don't understand that their "bible" is cobbled together from 2,813 manuscripts which range from fragments to complete verses, chapters, and books. The only complete work is Codex Sinaiticus. The other manuscripts are classified based on their particular flavor and as you might guess, they often heavily conflict.

In fact, they conflict so much that only 5 manuscripts are used when "translating" the text to create "the Bible" although the Chester Beatty scrolls and the Bodmer scrolls are each counted as one instead of being counted by the number of scrolls in each collection.

In 533 CE, Emperor Justinian of the Eastern Roman Empire wrote a letter to John the Bishop of Rome and naming him the chief persecutor of heretics.

At that time, the churches in modern-day Italy, Greece, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt were separate and independent, each headed by a bishop so there was no such thing as a "pope."

John immediately went to work murdering the bishops who wouldn't bow down to him or didn't think like him and exiled the others or they fled into exile and consolidated his power over all of the churches.

From that point on, everyone was forced into Christianity under penalty of death.

People did not voluntarily convert to Christianity but the "nobles" did. One of the Polish kings converted "voluntarily" and from that point on for everyone in Poland it was either be Catholic or have your property seize and/or be tortured and/or be executed.

Same for all the Germanic tribes in Western Europe. Then religion was rammed down the people's throats because you couldn't do anything without church approval. To be a merchant and sell your wares, you had to pay the church for a permit and then pay a tax to the church and then also tithe the church and if you didn't then you wouldn't be a merchant and you'd probably be dead.

Corporate charters were created by the Imperial Roman Catholic Church. It doesn't make sense as mayor of a village/town/city to sign your name on contracts with various guilds to build a city hall or church and have your personal assets on the line if other people don't do what they're supposed to do so the common sense thing to do is incorporate.

More than half of the wars in Europe were religious wars, not in the sense of which religion but in the sense of this guy won't bow down and kow-tow to the pope and give the pope lots of money so the pope would either sic the Holy Roman Empire on him or bank-roll someone who would take him out.

Took a long time for governments to wrest control away from the Church and it's still a work in progress and now we're moving to have governments stop bank-rolling churches and protecting them.

Perhaps. It's not the 1300's anymore either.

 

[LittleNipper]

Yet, once again, you reveal to others your ignorance of the world outside your tiny cubicle.

Read the book of Ecclesiastes. It's found in the Old Testament of the Bible, and then we can talk. It's always better to be ignorant than stupid.

 

[Somerville]

Read the book of Ecclesiastes. It's found in the Old Testament of the Bible, and then we can talk. It's always better to be ignorant than stupid.

Which translation is your choice? How do the words of "The Teacher" relate to our modern societies?

 

[LittleNipper]

Which translation is your choice? How do the words of "The Teacher" relate to our modern societies?

The King James is a solid translation. I appreciate the word "Preacher".

 

[Somerville]

The King James is a solid translation. I appreciate the word "Preacher".

There are Christians who disagree, one is Daniel B Wallace, Professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary.

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today​

First, I want to affirm with all evangelical Christians that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, inspired, and our final authority for faith and life. However, nowhere in the Bible am I told that only one translation of it is the correct one. Nowhere am I told that the King James Bible is the best or only ‘holy’ Bible. There is no verse that tells me how God will preserve his word, so I can have no scriptural warrant for arguing that the King James has exclusive rights to the throne. The arguments must proceed on other bases.

Second, the Greek text which stands behind the King James Bible is demonstrably inferior in certain places.

Third, the King James Bible has undergone three revisions since its inception in 1611, incorporating more than 100,000 changes. Which King James Bible is inspired, therefore?

Fourth, 300 words found in the KJV no longer bear the same meaning—e.g., “Suffer little children…to come unto me” (Matt 19:14). “Study to shew thyself approved unto God” (2 Tim 2:15). Should we really embrace a Bible as the best translation when it uses language that not only is not clearly understood any more, but in fact has been at times perverted and twisted?3

Fifth, the KJV includes one very definite error in translation, which even KJV advocates would admit.

Sixth, when the KJV was first published, it was heavily resisted for being too easy to understand! (The English we use in the modern world is not the same language as was commonly understood in the 16th century)

and finally, an explanation from a fellow believer as to just why the KJV is not the best text available

Four Reasons Not to Use the King James Version​

(1) It can make the Christian faith seem out of date. To begin with, there is the problem of the KJV’s old-fashioned language.

(2) The English language has evolved
A second problem with using the KJV today concerns the evolution of the English language. There are many English words and phrases in the KJV that meant something quite different 400 years ago from what they mean today.

(3) It makes many mistakes in translation

(4) Its New Testament is based on a poor Greek text.
When forming the KJV’s NT, the translators used what is known as the Textus Receptus. The TR refers to a series of Greek NT texts, the first of which was prepared by the Dutch scholar Erasmus in the early 16th century. The TR was used by the translators of most Reformation-era Bible translations in various languages, including the KJV.

Importantly, the scholarly consensus of NT textual analysts today, including those who are devout Christians, is that the TR is a relatively very poor text.

 

[weaver2]

You want kids led to believe that our existence is nothing but some natural accident and there is no real reason for them to exist but for some fluke of nature? And honestly, I find that there is far more philosophical and thought provoking consideration taken in creationism than much of what evolutionists "believe" happened but cannot seem to replicate. I know of no one killing his or herself believing that they existed for a reason. I do know of some who have not only killed themselves but others feeling that they had no reason to exist and became uncaring and despondent. Sorry, but the proof is in the pudding.

Fundamental Christianity is actually extremely simplistic and is presented as a "believe or go to hell" package. In fact Christianity of all the world's religion is probably the least intellectual or thought provoking of all religions. All the clap-trap of predestination, salvation through grace, transformative suffering, redemption of sin, et al. was all thought up by priests to create the necessary religions control over congregants that Jesus' very basic suggestions living didn't give to organized religion.

 

[weaver2]

You may see a lot of abandoned church buildings; however, CHRIST only had a regard for people and not buildings. Case in point ---- what JESUS had to say regarding the temple in Jerusalem. I'm very sure that those that are actually following CHRIST have found other congregations with which to worship GOD. And frankly, I have noted say a "mainline" church, slowly become a social club, as it first promotes that the word of GOD isn't of necessity inerrant, that evolution is compatible with the Genesis account, that Jesus was not GOD but a good man to follow, allows for women pastors, then gay ministers, encourages gay marriage, and then finally closes... A "church" that doesn't preach the GOSPEL MESSAGE is a dead church.

And this is why your religion is not invited into schools for philosophical discussions.

 

[Mircea]

In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate.

Secular humanism isn't a religion. There's no hierarchy; no "scripture"; no eschatology; no nothing.

There's no good or logical reason to frame every discussion in the context of religion, even more so when the only "permissible" religious context is that of Jews or x-tians.

I'll be happy to teach religious studies in your public schools but I guarandamntee you won't like anything I have to say.

We will engage in actual true real bona fide religious study and not the hee-hawing back-slapping "study" that's nothing more than confirmation bias.

We will be using Codex Leningradis and not the heavily flawed King Joke Vision that's chocked full of lies and made up things.

We will examine the two totally different stories of how Joseph got to Egypt. The students will fully understand why in one story when Joseph's brothers wanted to kill him it was Reuben who suggested Joseph be sold to a passing trade caravan and why in the other story it was Judah who suggested Joseph be thrown into a well and abandoned and only later after his brothers had left did a trade caravan come by and "rescue."

The students will understand which story is not the word of any god-thing but the word of power-seeking men and specifically which men and why.

And then students will read the 7 Tablets of Creation so's they can understand how the Hebrews plagiarized the story and changed it for political and social reasons and the will read the Egyptian Book of the Dead so's they can see where the Commandments came from and they will read all of the Ugarit psalms the Hebrews copied and used them for their own. And on and on.

After all that, we'll see if the students still want religion imposed on them.

 

[Tigerace117]

You want kids led to believe that our existence is nothing but some natural accident and there is no real reason for them to exist but for some fluke of nature? And honestly, I find that there is far more philosophical and thought provoking consideration taken in creationism than much of what evolutionists "believe" happened but cannot seem to replicate. I know of no one killing his or herself believing that they existed for a reason. I do know of some who have not only killed themselves but others feeling that they had no reason to exist and became uncaring and despondent. Sorry, but the proof is in the pudding.

I don’t want kids indoctrinated with long debunked religiously motivated fantasies, no.

Sorry, nobody‘s obligated to teach kids blatant lies like the Earth being a few thousand years old.

 

[Gordy327]

In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate.

No, religious views are just silly, especially in a secular public school setting, where religion does not belong. But religious views can be discussed ad nauseum in a religious school or institution setting. I doubt you'd want secular humanistic views discussed in such a setting so don't expect religion to be in public schools.

Secular values and beliefs are just as dangerous, if not more so, because at present there lacks a point/counterpoint evaluation discussion where a comparison if ideas and ideals tends to weed out questionable values.

Such hyperbole. Specify precisely what makes secular "values" dangerous? Or do you deem it dangerous because it challenges your religious views/beliefs?

You want kids led to believe that our existence is nothing but some natural accident and there is no real reason for them to exist but for some fluke of nature?

It's called reality. Deal with it! Kids exist because their parents had relations, plain and simple.

 

[weaver2]

No! I didn't say that at all. What I seek is open discussion as related to the various topics the students are learning. The schools today impose a lack of discussion when any "open" discussion becomes anything other than secular. In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate. Secular values and beliefs are just as dangerous, if not more so, because at present there lacks a point/counterpoint evaluation discussion where a comparison if ideas and ideals tends to weed out questionable values.

Public schools have already weeded out your questionable religious values.

 

[Hamish Howl]

No! I didn't say that at all. What I seek is open discussion as related to the various topics the students are learning. The schools today impose a lack of discussion when any "open" discussion becomes anything other than secular. In other words, secular humanism is IMPOSED as the only view that can be discussed openly while religious views are dismissed as inappropriate. Secular values and beliefs are just as dangerous, if not more so, because at present there lacks a point/counterpoint evaluation discussion where a comparison if ideas and ideals tends to weed out questionable values.

What is the purpose of a school?

To teach children the skills they need to get by in a modern society.

If you want to spread your religion, do it with your church. Religion has no place in a school environment.