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Allende the tyrant and Pinochet the servant of the Republic.

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Salvodor Allende of Chile was a tyrant attempting to destroy the Chilean Democratic Republic and disband the Constitution in order to create a totalitarian Communist dictatorship, to prevent this the Chilean Chamber of Deputies, the equivalent to the U.S. House of Representatives ordered the Chilean military under Pinochet to remove the tyrant Allende from power. Don't believe me well read on:


Editor's Note: This is the complete text of the resolution that Chile's Chamber of Deputies approved by 81 votes against 47, on August 22 1973. The resolution includes a list of the legal and constitutional violations committed by the Marxist government of President Salvador Allende. In the absence of a viable impeachment procedure contemplated in the Constitution, it "presents" the Armed Forces, among other authorities, with this "grave breakdown of the Republic's constitutional and legal order." Likewise, it serves to "remind them that, by virtue of their responsibilities, their pledge of allegiance to the Constitution, and to the laws of the land . . . it is their duty to put an immediate end to all situations herein referred to that breach the Constitution and the laws of the land." After this call to "immediate" action by the equivalent of the US House of Representatives or the UK House of Commons, the Chilean Armed Forces, led by the Army commander General Augusto Pinochet, decided on September 11, 1973—only 18 days later—to remove from office the President, thus charged with violating the Chilean Constitution. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.")


The Resolution

Considering:

1. That for the Rule of Law to exist, public authorities must carry out their activities and discharge their duties within the framework of the Constitution and the laws of the land, respecting fully the principle of reciprocal independence to which they are bound, and that all inhabitants of the country must be allowed to enjoy the guarantees and fundamental rights assured them by the Constitution;

2. That the legitimacy of the Chilean State lies with the people who, over the years, have invested in this legitimacy with the underlying consensus of their coexistence, and that an assault on this legitimacy not only destroys the cultural and political heritage of our Nation, but also denies, in practice, all possibility of democratic life;

3. That the values and principles expressed in the Constitution, according to article 2, indicate that sovereignty resides essentially in the Nation, and that authorities may not exercise more powers than those delegated to them by the Nation; and, in article 3, it is deduced that any government that arrogates to itself rights not delegated to it by the people commits sedition;

4. That the current President of the Republic was elected by the full Congress, in accordance with a statute of democratic guarantees incorporated in the Constitution for the very purpose of assuring that the actions of his administration would be subject to the principles and norms of the Rule of Law that he solemnly agreed to respect;

5. That it is a fact that the current government of the Republic, from the beginning, has sought to conquer absolute power with the obvious purpose of subjecting all citizens to the strictest political and economic control by the state and, in this manner, fulfilling the goal of establishing a totalitarian system: the absolute opposite of the representative democracy established by the Constitution;

6. That to achieve this end, the administration has committed not isolated violations of the Constitution and the laws of the land, rather it has made such violations a permanent system of conduct, to such an extreme that it systematically ignores and breaches the proper role of the other branches of government, habitually violating the Constitutional guarantees of all citizens of the Republic, and allowing and supporting the creation of illegitimate parallel powers that constitute an extremely grave danger to the Nation, by all of which it has destroyed essential elements of institutional legitimacy and the Rule of Law;

7. That the administration has committed the following assaults on the proper role of the National Congress, seat of legislative power:

a) It has usurped Congress's principle role of legislation through the adoption of various measures of great importance to the country's social and economic life that are unquestionably matters of legislation through special decrees enacted in an abuse of power, or through simple "administrative resolutions" using legal loopholes. It is noteworthy that all of this has been done with the deliberate and confessed purpose of substituting the country's institutional structures, as conceived by current legislation, with absolute executive authority and the total elimination of legislative authority;

b) It has consistently mocked the National Congress's oversight role by effectively removing its power to formally accuse Ministers of State who violate the Constitution or laws of the land, or who commit other offenses specified by the Constitution, and;

c) Lastly, what is most extraordinarily grave, it has utterly swept aside the exalted role of Congress as a duly constituted power by refusing to enact the Constitutional reform of three areas of the economy that were approved in strict compliance with the norms established by the Constitution.

8. That it has committed the following assaults on the judicial branch:

a) With the goal of undermining the authority of the courts and compromising their independence, it has led an infamous campaign of libel and slander against the Supreme Court, and it has sanctioned very serious attacks against judges and their authority;

b) It has made a mockery of justice in cases of delinquents belonging to political parties or groups affiliated with or close to the administration, either through the abusive use of pardons or deliberate noncompliance with detention orders;

c) It has violated express laws and utterly disregarded the principle of separation of powers by not carrying out sentences and judicial resolutions that contravene its objectives and, when so accused by the Supreme Court, the President of the Republic has gone to the unheard of extreme of arrogating to himself a right to judge the merit of judicial sentences and to determine when they are to be complied with;

9. That, as concerns the General Comptroller's Office—an independent institution essential to administrative legitimacy—the administration has systematically violated decrees and activities that point to the illegality of the actions of the Executive Branch or of entities dependent on it;
<<<CONTINUED BELOW>>>
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus

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<<<CONTINUED FROM ABOVE>>>
10. That among the administration's constant assaults on the guarantees and fundamental rights established in the Constitution, the following stand out:

a) It has violated the principle of equality before the law through sectarian and hateful discrimination in the protection authorities are required to give to the life, rights, and property of all inhabitants, through activities related to food and subsistence, as well as numerous other instances. It is to note that the President of the Republic himself has made these discriminations part of the normal course of his government by proclaiming from the beginning that he does not consider himself the president of all Chileans;

b) It has grievously attacked freedom of speech, applying all manner of economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government, illegally closing newspapers and radio networks; imposing illegal shackles on the latter; unconstitutionally jailing opposition journalists; resorting to cunning maneuvers to acquire a monopoly on newsprint; and openly violating the legal mandates to which the National Television Network is subject by handing over the post of executive director to a public official not named by the Senate, as is required by law, and by turning the network into an instrument for partisan propaganda and defamation of political adversaries;

c) It has violated the principle of university autonomy and the constitutionally recognized right of universities to establish and maintain television networks, by encouraging the takeover of the University of Chile's Channel 9, by assaulting that university's new Channel 6 through violence and illegal detentions, and by obstructing the expansion to the provinces of the channel owned by Catholic University of Chile;

d) It has obstructed, impeded, and sometimes violently suppressed citizens who do not favor the regime in the exercise of their right to freedom of association. Meanwhile, it has constantly allowed groups—frequently armed—to gather and take over streets and highways, in disregard of pertinent regulation, in order to intimidate the populace;

e) It has attacked educational freedom by illegally and surreptitiously implementing the so-called Decree of the Democratization of Learning, an educational plan whose goal is Marxist indoctrination;

f) It has systematically violated the constitutional guarantee of property rights by allowing and supporting more than 1,500 illegal "takings" of farms, and by encouraging the "taking" of hundreds of industrial and commercial establishments in order to later seize them or illegally place them in receivership and thereby, through looting, establish state control over the economy; this has been one of the determining causes of the unprecedented decline in production, the scarcity of goods, the black market and suffocating rise in the cost of living, the bankruptcy of the national treasury, and generally of the economic crisis that is sweeping the country and threatening basic household welfare, and very seriously compromising national security;

g) It has made frequent politically motivated and illegal arrests, in addition to those already mentioned of journalists, and it has tolerated the whipping and torture of the victims;

h) It has ignored the rights of workers and their unions, subjecting them, as in the cases of El Teniente [one of the largest copper mines] and the transportation union, to illegal means of repression;

i) It has broken its commitment to make amends to workers who have been unjustly persecuted, such as those from Sumar, Helvetia, Banco Central, El Teniente and Chuquicamata; it has followed an arbitrary policy in the turning over of state-owned farms to peasants, expressly contravening the Agrarian Reform Law; it has denied workers meaningful participation, as guaranteed them by the Constitution; it has given rise to the end to union freedom by setting up parallel political organizations of workers.

j) It has gravely breached the constitutional guarantee to freely leave the country, establishing requirements to do so not covered by any law.

11. That it powerfully contributes to the breakdown of the Rule of Law by providing government protection and encouragement of the creation and maintenance of a number of organizations which are subversive [to the constitutional order] in the exercise of authority granted to them by neither the Constitution nor the laws of the land, in open violation of article 10, number 16 of the Constitution. These include community commandos, peasant councils, vigilance committees, the JAP, etc.; all designed to create a so-called "popular authority" with the goal of replacing legitimately elected authority and establishing the foundation of a totalitarian dictatorship. These facts have been publicly acknowledged by the President of the Republic in his last State of the Nation address and by all government media and strategists;

12. That especially serious is the breakdown of the Rule of Law by means of the creation and development of government-protected armed groups which, in addition to threatening citizens' security and rights as well as domestic peace, are headed towards a confrontation with the Armed Forces. Just as serious is that the police are prevented from carrying out their most important responsibilities when dealing with criminal riots perpetrated by violent groups devoted to the government. Given the extreme gravity, one cannot be silent before the public and notorious attempts to use the Armed and Police Forces for partisan ends, destroy their institutional hierarchy, and politically infiltrate their ranks;

13. That the creation of a new ministry, with the participation of high-level officials of the Armed and Police Forces, was characterized by the President of the Republic to be "of national security" and its mandate "the establishment of political order" and "the establishment of economic order," and that such a mandate can only be conceived within the context of full restoration and validation of the legal and constitutional norms that make up the institutional framework of the Republic;

14. That the Armed and Police Forces are and must be, by their very nature, a guarantee for all Chileans and not just for one sector of the Nation or for a political coalition. Consequently, the government cannot use their backing to cover up a specific minority partisan policy. Rather their presence must be directed toward the full restoration of constitutional rule and of the rule of the laws of democratic coexistence, which is indispensable to guaranteeing Chile's institutional stability, civil peace, security, and development;

15. Lastly, exercising the role attributed to it by Article 39 of the Constitution,

The Chamber of Deputies agrees:

First: To present the President of the Republic, Ministers of State, and members of the Armed and Police Forces with the grave breakdown of the legal and constitutional order of the Republic, the facts and circumstances of which are detailed in sections 5 to 12 above;

Second: To likewise point out that by virtue of their responsibilities, their pledge of allegiance to the Constitution and to the laws they have served, and in the case of the ministers, by virtue of the nature of the institutions of which they are high-ranking officials and of Him whose name they invoked upon taking office, it is their duty to put an immediate end to all situations herein referred to that breach the Constitution and the laws of the land with the goal of redirecting government activity toward the path of Law and ensuring the constitutional order of our Nation and the essential underpinnings of democratic coexistence among Chileans;

Third: To declare that if so done, the presence of those ministers in the government would render a valuable service to the Republic. To the contrary, they would gravely compromise the national and professional character of the Armed and Police Forces, openly infringing article 22 of the Constitution and seriously damaging the prestige of their institutions; and

Fourth: To communicate this agreement to His Excellency the President of the Republic, and to the Ministers of Economy, National Defense, Public Works and Transportation, and Land and Colonization.
 

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I think you are going to have a hard job rallying many Pinochet supporters Titus. Not that this has anything to do with Today's news and I dont think its really deserving of its own thread. Did you answer my questions about the human rights records of the two regimes? Didnt think so.
 

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[Moderator Mode]

Moved to the more appropriate forum...

C'Mon Trajan..."Today's News" forum?...You gotta be kiddin'...:roll:

And start cropping and sourcing your articles...you know the rules...

[/Moderator Mode]
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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cnredd said:
[Moderator Mode]

Moved to the more appropriate forum...

C'Mon Trajan..."Today's News" forum?...You gotta be kiddin'...:roll:

And start cropping and sourcing your articles...you know the rules...

[/Moderator Mode]

It's not an article it's public domain Resolution of the Chilean Deputy of Chambers.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Touchmaster said:
I think you are going to have a hard job rallying many Pinochet supporters Titus. Not that this has anything to do with Today's news and I dont think its really deserving of its own thread. Did you answer my questions about the human rights records of the two regimes? Didnt think so.

Umm the Human Rights record of Allende is clearly drawn out in the above text, he was a tyrant.
 

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That about Pinochets record? And please show independent sources that says Pinochets record was better then Allendes. Also how did Allende get into power and how did Pinochet? Pleas also hear use independent sources. Because if you want to use bias sources we can have a fun discusion there you claim that Pinochet was a nice guy and I that Castro was and is a nice guy, but that would be a fantasy discusion instead of a real one.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Bergslagstroll said:
That about Pinochets record? And please show independent sources that says Pinochets record was better then Allendes. Also how did Allende get into power and how did Pinochet? Pleas also hear use independent sources. Because if you want to use bias sources we can have a fun discusion there you claim that Pinochet was a nice guy and I that Castro was and is a nice guy, but that would be a fantasy discusion instead of a real one.

Independent sources? That was the actual resolution created by the elected Deputy of Chambers (Chile's equivalent of the House of Representatives) that ordered the Chilean military to remove the tyrant from power.
 
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Trajan I don't doubt that Pinochet got into power legitimetly. Many dictators don't start off as authoritarian. They morph into dictators, just as Hitler and Mussolini were products of democracy.

Thing is; the human rights abuses committed by Pinochet, make him just as bad as the communists.

End of.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Australianlibertarian said:
Trajan I don't doubt that Pinochet got into power legitimetly. Many dictators don't start off as authoritarian. They morph into dictators, just as Hitler and Mussolini were products of democracy.

Thing is; the human rights abuses committed by Pinochet, make him just as bad as the communists.

End of.

No, because his abuses, though tragic, were in the name of preserving the Republic, it would be akin to the German military of the Wiemar Republic being ordered by the German Parliament to remove Hitler from power and squash the Nazi party by any means necessary to preserve the Republic.

The fact of the matter is that once the danger subsided Pinochet held free elections, and Chile at this very moment is a free, prosperous, and Democratic nation, now imagine what would have happened if the Communists were allowed to sieze total control as they had set out to do, Cuba comes to mind.
 

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I say let's leave Trojan to his little biased delusional world, where he can keep on cheering "Allende was a communist dictator I can prove it only with my biased sources, and they also prove Pinochet was a hero of saving every single Chilean."
 

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Comrade Brian said:
I say let's leave Trojan to his little biased delusional world, where he can keep on cheering "Allende was a communist dictator I can prove it only with my biased sources, and they also prove Pinochet was a hero of saving every single Chilean."

Yaa ok a resolution by the Chilean Deputy of Chambers is a biased source. :roll:
 

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Pinochet servent of the Republic?? Seriously what have you been smoking TOTty?? Can I buy some? :devil:
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Yaa ok a resolution by the Chilean Deputy of Chambers is a biased source. :roll:

So if the house of represantative in the USA got a democratic mayority. You would then consided that the say as unbiased truth and for example accept a military coup against Bush if they said it was a good idea. Also you would be totally fine that thousands of americans would be killed in that coup?

Here is one example of a unbias source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile
 

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GarzaUK said:
Pinochet servent of the Republic?? Seriously what have you been smoking TOTty?? Can I buy some? :devil:

It's not what I've been smoking it's what I've been reading the historical account of what actually happened in 1973 Chile, did you even read the Resolution?
 

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Bergslagstroll said:
So if the house of represantative in the USA got a large democratic mayority. You would the consided that the say as unbiased truth and for example accept a military coup against Bush if they said it was a good idea. Also you would be totally fine that thousands of americans that killed in that coup?

Here is one example of a unbias source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile

If Bush attempted to install a Communist totalitarian dictatorship you bet your ass I would, however, that is a false analogy because the United States has an impeachment procedure built into the Constitution which the Chilean Constitution does not.

And you post a wikipedia source as unbiased? It's written by the fuc/king people who read it for Christ's sakes. I can create an article for Wikipedia saying that Hitler was just misunderstood and it would get printed.

Upon closer inspection your link doesn't even mention Allende or Pinochet.
 

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Il admit Allende was slightly unhinged at times to say the least but he could easyly have have been defeated at the ballot box. A long reigning murderous dictatorship wasnt nescessary espicially as Pinochets coup came at a time when Allende was cutting links with extremeists and copoperating with the army. Pinochet was no hero as he stabbed Allende in the back and created a neo-liberal dictatorship [something the vast majority of chileans would not want as both Allende and his main rival where way to the left of most american politions] whose human rights abuses inpired the creation of amesty international. How can Pinochet have been a "servant of the republic" if he murdered thousands of its citizens?
 

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Red_Dave said:
Il admit Allende was slightly unhinged at times to say the least but he could easyly have have been defeated at the ballot box. A long reigning murderous dictatorship wasnt nescessary espicially as Pinochets coup came at a time when Allende was cutting links with extremeists and copoperating with the army. Pinochet was no hero as he stabbed Allende in the back and created a neo-liberal dictatorship [something the vast majority of chileans would not want as both Allende and his main rival where way to the left of most american politions] whose human rights abuses inpired the creation of amesty international. How can Pinochet have been a "servant of the republic" if he murdered thousands of its citizens?


Bullshit Allende was usurping executive legislative power from the congress in attempts to set up a dictatorship, as well as, funding militia revolutionary groups, indoctrinating the children with Marxist principles, suppressing the press, and putting Marxist's at the heads of the military and the police force in order that he might secure his power.

As for Pinochet killing his own citizens, I think you are the type of person who would be of the opinion that if the Weimar Republic's congress ordered the German military led by Rommel to kill Hitler and remove the Nazi party from all aspects of society by any means necessary to save the Republic, you'de be crying in your milk if some National Socialists lost their lives.

Apparently it's not an easy think to preserve a Democratic Republic against a Communist revolution as can be seen that this is the only time in history that it's ever been successful.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
If Bush attempted to install a Communist totalitarian dictatorship you bet your ass I would, however, that is a false analogy because the United States has an impeachment procedure built into the Constitution which the Chilean Constitution does not.

And you post a wikipedia source as unbiased? It's written by the fuc/king people who read it for Christ's sakes. I can create an article for Wikipedia saying that Hitler was just misunderstood and it would get printed.

Upon closer inspection your link doesn't even mention Allende or Pinochet.

I will still stick with my comparision is good. Because you put your entire trust in the sayings of the lowerhouse, that they tell the truth. So would that also be valide then you think of the american goverment that you put your belifes into the lowerhouse. So if Bush said one thing and a democratic lower house said another you would always side with the lower house. Because that's the entire point you made, that you should automatic trust the rulings from the lowerhouse. You have not show any independent historical data of why should trust the lowerhouse but not the Allende goverment.

Well my link mention Allende and Pinochet if you just read the 70 and 80 history. Of course you can have problem with wiki sources, but still there lead to a consesus that reflect the real events. So if you would say that Hitler was misunderstod it would disepear very fast. Either by Wikipedia because you can't prove your point. Or by the fact a mayority have another wiew and will edite away that data. But yes I'm sorry that Wikipedia and encarta is the only free internet sources I have in english I useally use swedish and english books for information.

But just want to link this in from Encarta's Chiles history:
"The military ruled through a junta headed by General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte. It immediately suspended the constitution, dissolved Congress, imposed strict censorship, and banned all political parties. In addition, it embarked on a campaign of terror against leftist elements in the country. Tens of thousands were arrested, and nearly all those arrested were tortured. Thousands were executed or exiled, while still others languished in prison or simply disappeared." Encarta page 10 Chile

That it's really funny that Pinochet disolved the Congress that you put so strong belifes in
 
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Bergslagstroll said:
I will still stick with my comparision is good. Because you put your entire trust in the sayings of the lowerhouse, that they tell the truth. So would that also be valide then you think of the american goverment that you put your belifes into the lowerhouse. So if Bush said one thing and a democratic lower house said another you would always side with the lower house. Because that's the entire point you made, that you should automatic trust the rulings from the lowerhouse. You have not show any independent historical data of why should trust the lowerhouse but not the Allende goverment.

Well my link mention Allende and Pinochet if you just read the 70 and 80 history. Of course you can have problem with wiki sources, but still there lead to a consesus that reflect the real events. So if you would say that Hitler was misunderstod it would disepear very fast. Either by Wikipedia because you can't prove your point. Or by the fact a mayority have another wiew and will edite away that data. But yes I'm sorry that Wikipedia and encarta is the only free internet sources I have in english I useally use swedish and english books for information.

But just want to link this in from Encarta's Chiles history:
"The military ruled through a junta headed by General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte. It immediately suspended the constitution, dissolved Congress, imposed strict censorship, and banned all political parties. In addition, it embarked on a campaign of terror against leftist elements in the country. Tens of thousands were arrested, and nearly all those arrested were tortured. Thousands were executed or exiled, while still others languished in prison or simply disappeared." Encarta page 10 Chile

That it's really funny that Pinochet disolved the Congress that you put so strong belifes in

The houses of government are separate but equal so your point is moot. I will further elaborate that the entire function of the separation of powers is to provide checks and balances so due to the fact that the Chilean Constitution is lacking in an impeachment proceeding this was their only viable option.
 

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This is an interesting point to make (although Trajan is so delusional that he will probably dismiss it out of hand as revisionsim - always makes me laugh when Trajan attacks terrorism, yet supports terrorists if they kill left-wing civilians, attacks communist tyrants but supports fascist dictators, and accuses people of revisionism when he whitewashes neo-nazi massacres that are accepted as inhuman atrocities by 98% of the Western World)...
So trajan, why did Pinochet dissolve this congress which had supposedly ordered his bloody coup (although that is never explicitly ordered in that excerpt you have given)... and why did he not reprivatise the recently nationalised copper mines that made Allende such a commie (despite the fact he was dedicated to a peaceful transition to a more socialist society, as lamented by the KGB in secret archives)? And it was possible to remove a President from power, by having a two-thirds majority vote in congress. The motion you mentioned was of course drawn up by the two parties opposing Allende in Congress, and at no point does it mention any SPECIFIC human rights abuses, so it is not an accurate source. I, however, can give you a large number of SPECIFIC examples of horrendous abuses perpetrated on individuals responsible for no more than objecting to the new regime. I suppose all those murdered writers and musicians were Nazis were they. You are a hypocritical, delusional extremist, who is incapable of seeing anthing but your own extraordinarily blinkered (and no doubt indoctrinated by Miami neofascist gangsters) worldview
 

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Touchmaster said:
This is an interesting point to make (although Trajan is so delusional that he will probably dismiss it out of hand as revisionsim - always makes me laugh when Trajan attacks terrorism, yet supports terrorists if they kill left-wing civilians, attacks communist tyrants but supports fascist dictators, and accuses people of revisionism when he whitewashes neo-nazi massacres that are accepted as inhuman atrocities by 98% of the Western World)...
So trajan, why did Pinochet dissolve this congress which had supposedly ordered his bloody coup (although that is never explicitly ordered in that excerpt you have given)... and why did he not reprivatise the recently nationalised copper mines that made Allende such a commie (despite the fact he was dedicated to a peaceful transition to a more socialist society, as lamented by the KGB in secret archives)? And it was possible to remove a President from power, by having a two-thirds majority vote in congress. The motion you mentioned was of course drawn up by the two parties opposing Allende in Congress, and at no point does it mention any SPECIFIC human rights abuses, so it is not an accurate source. I, however, can give you a large number of SPECIFIC examples of horrendous abuses perpetrated on individuals responsible for no more than objecting to the new regime. I suppose all those murdered writers and musicians were Nazis were they. You are a hypocritical, delusional extremist, who is incapable of seeing anthing but your own extraordinarily blinkered (and no doubt indoctrinated by Miami neofascist gangsters) worldview

A) Your wrong there was no impeachment procedure in the Chilean Constitution.

B) The Deputy of Chambers was the dually elected congress of Chile not a Committee made up of the opposition parties.

C) A new Constitution was ratified in 1980 and elections were held which ousted Pinochet from power in 1988 and at the present awaits trial for his excesses which taken together are proof that Pinochet was devoted to a Democratic Chile.

D) Pinochet initiated many neo-liberalist reforms while in power.

E) The crimes against the Chilean Constitution by the Allende regime are well documented.
 

Bergslagstroll

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The houses of government are separate but equal so your point is moot. I will further elaborate that the entire function of the separation of powers is to provide checks and balances so due to the fact that the Chilean Constitution is lacking in an impeachment proceeding this was their only viable option.

So I will just try to understand that you saying: That it was ok to disolve congress because the uper house didn't accept the lower house demand of overthrowing the goverment. So you point is still trust the lower house because they saw the danger with Allende. But you have still show no proof why there where right execept that you personally like there ruling. So all this still boils down to your personal belifes. That you like the actions of the lower house but not that of the uper house and that of the Allende goverment. Therefor lower house good because they think like you Allende goverment and uper house bad because they don't think like you.
 

robin

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TOT
Number killed by the elected Allende government = none to my knowledge.
Number killed by the CIA installed Pinochet thugs = 8000 + thousands tortured... & you think that's preferable :shock: :confused:
I think you've just demonstrated to us just how dangerous the typical 'American fundamentalist' such as yourself can be.
Thanks for the reminder.
You are a certain personality type.
Had you been born in a Muslim country you'd be chanting 'Death to America'.
The fact you're not, is merely an accident of birth.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus

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robin said:
TOT
Number killed by the elected Allende government = none to my knowledge.
Number killed by the CIA installed Pinochet thugs = 8000 + thousands tortured... & you think that's preferable :shock: :confused:
I think you've just demonstrated to us just how dangerous the typical 'American fundamentalist' such as yourself can be.
Thanks for the reminder.
You are a certain personality type.
Had you been born in a Muslim country you'd be chanting 'Death to America'.
The fact you're not, is merely an accident of birth.

Well here's the thing you obviously didn't even read the damn begining of this thread and with that being said I don't feel it incumbant upon me to explain again why Allende was in fact the one who was the tyrant.
 
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