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After decades, there's finally some little tax increase for billionaires paying 8%. Meet Manchin.

Craig234

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Joe Manchin really does not want to tax them. If he did, his plan would have no exceptions. You want to tax all obscenely rich people or none of them, regardless of how they got way too much money.

Why does this guy identify himself as a Democrat? He leans conservative on every issue except Trump the Terrorist and likes what Mitch McConnell does as the Senate Minority Leader.
 

ttwtt78640

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Because of COURSE Manchin wants to gut a core benefit for the country the rest of Democrats support.


Why should unrealized capital gains (on liquid assets?) suddenly be considered income and taxed only for households with over $100M in ‘wealth’?

Unrealized capital gains either are or are not taxable income. There is no household ‘wealth’ threshold for treating realized capital gains as income.
 

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Why should unrealized capital gains (on liquid assets?) suddenly be considered income and taxed only for households with over $100M in ‘wealth’?

Unrealized capital gains either are or are not taxable income. There is no household ‘wealth’ threshold for treating realized capital gains as income.
They've payed the humongous share of total tax revenue for decades. Biden's plan is idiotic.
 

jotathought

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Because of COURSE Manchin wants to gut a core benefit for the country the rest of Democrats support.

Good for him ... why would you want to tax unrealized value? I mean, seriously, taxing potential income. That'll be a cluster ****, especially if markets go down and the unrealized amount no longer exists. Additionally, why would you raise taxes when inflation is at a 40+ year high?

Democrat pipe dream here, and Republicans most likely won't vote for it (along with Manchin and Sinema)
 

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Why should unrealized capital gains (on liquid assets?) suddenly be considered income and taxed only for households with over $100M in ‘wealth’?

Unrealized capital gains either are or are not taxable income. There is no household ‘wealth’ threshold for treating realized capital gains as income.
Unrealized gains aren't income. They are potential income, and only become tangible when you sell them.
 

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Dumb question, is he a deciding vote?
 

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Manchin has been" GOB" smacked. What a POS.
 

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jotathought

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Exactly, which is why the 16A does not grant the federal government the power to tax them.

All assets are potential sources of income if they are later sold.
What would be interesting is to see when you'd be taxed on an unrealized gains. What happens if the market tanks after the taxes have been paid? Do you get money back?
 

Atreus21

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Joe Manchin really does not want to tax them. If he did, his plan would have no exceptions. You want to tax all obscenely rich people or none of them, regardless of how they got way too much money.

Why does this guy identify himself as a Democrat? He leans conservative on every issue except Trump the Terrorist and likes what Mitch McConnell does as the Senate Minority Leader.

When the electorate is this evenly split, it shouldn't be a surprise that it's hard to pass legislation.
 

Buckeyes85

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Good for him ... why would you want to tax unrealized value? I mean, seriously, taxing potential income. That'll be a cluster ****, especially if markets go down and the unrealized amount no longer exists. Additionally, why would you raise taxes when inflation is at a 40+ year high?

Democrat pipe dream here, and Republicans most likely won't vote for it (along with Manchin and Sinema)
I don't disagree with your position on taxing unrealized capital gains but cannot envision any connection between a proposed tax on the uber wealthy and the current inflation rate.
 

CLAX1911

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Because of COURSE Manchin wants to gut a core benefit for the country the rest of Democrats support.

Not that I agree particularly with mansion but any attempt to try and collect more taxes from the billionaires is lip service.

You don't collect taxes from the donor class otherwise they don't donate to you anymore.

It's best to think of taxes as a spider web it catches flies it doesn't catch wasps.

The billionaire class owns both Democrats and Republicans because that's where the donations come from.

If you were able to get someone like Bernie Sanders in office they would own him to they probably already do.
 

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When the electorate is this evenly split, it shouldn't be a surprise that it's hard to pass legislation.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Manchin being a Democrat in name only.
 

The AntiDonald

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Unrealized gains aren't income. They are potential income, and only become tangible when you sell them.
Seems to me we already pay a tax on those sorts of assets. My home is worth $650,000.00 and I pay taxes on that unrealized income every year. I don't have to sell it to be taxed on it. I really don't see the difference.
 

DarkWizard12

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Why does this guy identify himself as a Democrat? He leans conservative on every issue except Trump the Terrorist and likes what Mitch McConnell does as the Senate Minority Leader.
Well, Joe Manchin has been key in many 50/50 votes, and will be, i think, as KBJ goes through the confirmation process. He votes against repeal of the ACA and called for withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan.

Joe manchin committed the sin of being an acceptable democrat only 20 years ago.
 

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You don't collect taxes from the donor class otherwise they don't donate to you anymore.

A problem that would be in very large part completely solved by getting rid of the legalized bribery in the sham that is the US government.

Another thing thats NEVER going to happen until its changed by force IMO.
 

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Well, Joe Manchin has been key in many 50/50 votes, and will be, i think, as KBJ goes through the confirmation process. He votes against repeal of the ACA and called for withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan.

Joe manchin committed the sin of being an acceptable democrat only 20 years ago.

Remember those months of research he had to do in order to determine the "long term effects" of gigantic tax cuts for billionaires and multinational corporations?

LOL. Neither do I.:LOL:
 

Atreus21

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That has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Manchin being a Democrat in name only.

I think it does. In this environment you're at the mercy of such people. If you had just one more Democrat seat you could almost ignore Manchin or other conservative democrats.

If the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would have to cozy up to liberal Republicans like Susan Collins and such.
 

code1211

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Because of COURSE Manchin wants to gut a core benefit for the country the rest of Democrats support.


It's cute that you think that the lying thieves elected to serve in DC or the lying thieves they hire will be able to outsmart the smartest people in the country.

Also that this will affect only Billionaires as we understand them to be today.

When the Minimum Tax provisions were enacted into law, Millionaires were rare. Now there's a Millionaire on every corner.

Laws like this are land mines buried today to blow us all up in a few years.
 

jotathought

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Seems to me we already pay a tax on those sorts of assets. My home is worth $650,000.00 and I pay taxes on that unrealized income every year. I don't have to sell it to be taxed on it. I really don't see the difference.
What unrealized income are you paying taxes?
 

ttwtt78640

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I think it does. In this environment you're at the mercy of such people. If you had just one more Democrat seat you could almost ignore Manchin or other conservative democrats.

If the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would have to cozy up to liberal Republicans like Susan Collins and such.

This idea of considering unrealized capital gains as income ignores common sense.
 

Buckeyes85

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Seems to me we already pay a tax on those sorts of assets. My home is worth $650,000.00 and I pay taxes on that unrealized income every year. I don't have to sell it to be taxed on it. I really don't see the difference.
I get your point but don't think you can really make a comparison between property taxes and income taxes in this situation.
 

ttwtt78640

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Seems to me we already pay a tax on those sorts of assets. My home is worth $650,000.00 and I pay taxes on that unrealized income every year. I don't have to sell it to be taxed on it. I really don't see the difference.

You do not pay any federal (or state) income tax on the appreciated value of your home. If you don’t understand (or as you put it “see”) the difference between a property tax and an income tax then maybe you should educate yourself on that very important difference.

First of all, there is a difference between a liquid asset (e.g. stocks) and a non-liquid asset (e.g. real estate). This proposed 20% federal ‘wealth’ tax would only apply to the unrealized (annual) capital gains on liquid assets held by so called “billionaires” - households with a net worth of over $100M (like Speaker Pelosi’s) includes plenty of folks who are clearly not billionaires. It is unclear (to me) how a household’s net worth would be calculated under this new proposal.
 
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