Advice to President Obama [W:253]

[Muddy Creek]

Uh, when you target one sector and 'Expose some of the more sinister' how is that not ridicule especially since 'sinister' is a subjective?

What actual record...that the lowest percentage of gun crimes are committed using 'assault rifles'? And it is these which are currently being targeted...

As to the rest, well...standard left wing meme...jibber jabber...:lamo

You going to address his statement, or continue pushing republican pundit misinformation?

 

[Mycroft]

As someone who does not like guns I have to agree. I truly wish nobody had guns or nukes, grenades, knives, expolsives, or really anything else that can be used to harm people ----- but I have to say every person has the right to defend themselves and their family against the crazy people who will get those things no matter who tries to ban them. Truth be told if I am home alone with my little girl and some drug ridden guy comes and smashes a window in and comes in, I am going to do what I have to do to protect my baby and a little steak knife is not going to stop him. So yeah I admit it I am kinda a hypocrite because I don't really like guns but I will shoot the hell outta some asshole who tries to hurt us. And you can't say the people who are rushing to ban guns would not do the same exact thing in that situation.

You are not a hypocrite. You are only like most every other law-abiding citizen who will do what is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones from those who would do you harm.

Obama and his liberal buddies, like haymarket, want to make it harder for you to do so.

 

[Federalist]

Obama and his liberal buddies, like haymarket, want to make it harder for you to do so.

Now, now. Remember, haymarket isn't suggesting any gun policies at all...

 

[MaggieD]

I get paid to give advice to politicians. Writing speeches, op-eds for the newspapers, newsletter material, policy statements, press releases - the whole gamut. I have some free advice for the President to further his gun initiatives.

1 - Play to the middle and forget about the NRA and its supporters. They oppose the very concept and the details simply do not matter since they will lie, distort and outright pervert what your are advocating for. Play to the great middle of Americans who respect hunting rights, who respect the need for a weapon for self defense, who respect sporting activities with a firearm, and who simply want something done about both the proliferation of guns in our society and the use of them.

2- Go on the road and take this message to the American people. Make it a pro-hunting, pro self defense, pro sporting and pro responsible gun owner pitch. Use local people who have a good gun record like Senator Joe Manchin in West Virginia in making local appearances.

3- Expose some of the more sinister motivations of the gun crowd who are 100% opposed to his initiatives with a clear, no holding back, direct onslaught of language showing them to be potentially dangerous extremists who have precious little in common with the vast majority of Americans. We hear over and over and over how guns are needed in case we need to fight the government. Use that. Use it often. Shout it loudly and shout it often that we will not allow gun policy to be dictated by people who believe that gun laws should always have an eye on providing equal firepower to go up against soldiers of police officers should the day of the right wing revolution come. Use those folks and that sort of extremism to drive a wedge between the responsible hunting and self defense Americans and those who feel they need to build their own armories when they someday have to man the barricades and want to make sure they are packing enough power to kill the soldier boy or police officer from down the street.

4 - Go back and do number 3 again and again and again. Use film clips of the more radical folks through surrogates going on news and talk shows to show "this is what we are up against." Ask the American people - "are you going to let these extremists speak for you and dictate gun policy so they can be armed for revolution?"

5 - Expose the finances of the gun corporations, the NRA, and the entire gun culture. Show that they are in this for a profit and that is their motivation above all else. They are more than happy to see the proliferation of guns in our society because it means money in their pockets. And if more guns means more negative effects from guns, that is a price they accept.

6- Announce a national memorial to be constructed in Washington DC in honor of the innocent victims of gun violence and involve the public by asking for donations to begin planning and building it. I would use the Viet Nam veterans Memorial as the model for the idea and concept. A stark wall with names upon it although I would go for something high and looming overhead rather than the sprawling design of the VN memorial.

7 - Show the connection between right wing politics and gun politics. This should be done by surrogates rather than the President himself. Demonstrate how the right is using the issue to push other issues which are to the detriment of the American people and its all part of a package and agenda.

8 - Try to get commitments from Hollywood and the gaming industry to act more responsibly and tone down the volume on violence they use in their products.

9 - Take the NRA suggestion of more armed guards in the schools and run with it to Congress asking them to support it and fund it. And publicly challenge the NRA to lobby for it with members of Congress who are supportive of their agenda.

10 - Announce a national mental health summit at the White House and bring in state governors and appropriate professionals to shine the spotlight on how much of the mental health care system has been savaged over the last couple of decades in the drive for smaller and cheaper government and we must begin to turn it around on the state level.

But above all else, do not let this moment evaporate. This must be a top priority just like health care was for the first two years of the administration.

And what would be the "end game" here? In short, "So what do ya' want to do about it?"

This is, and should continue to be, a state issue.

 

[jamesrage]

Anything that hold the ability to shoot more than one bullet at the pull of a trigger needs to be removed.

Semi-automatic weapons only shoot one bullet per trigger pull. If a weapon can shoot more than one bullet at the pull of a trigger then it is not a semi-automatic weapon, its either burst(a weapon that fires two more rounds per trigger squeeze) or automatic(a weapon that will keep firing rounds until the trigger is released).

 

[haymarket]

If you want to take cheap shots out of the discussion you would have nothing to say. This entire thread is a cheap shot.

It is sad and unfortunate you feel that way. Perhaps you should attempt to remove your personal feelings from it and you could speak more to the issues raised instead of continually attacking me?

 

[Federalist]

This is, and should continue to be, a state issue.

I agree crime prevention should be a state matter, not a concern of the federation.

 

[ttwtt78640]

My OP clearly differentiated Americans who respect hunting, sporting and the need for self defense from those advocating arms for possible revolution.

Your mischaracterization of myself and my views is simply incorrect.

That is utter nonsense, as even you know that the second amendment was talking about the "security of a free state" not hunting or sporting. This very nation was, at the time of its writing, very recently formed by armed citizens fighting such a revolution against a tyranical gov't; that was clearly at the forefront of the thinking that allowing for an armed civilian population would help keep ANY gov't (including our own) from ever getting to that point. To pretend otherwise, or asserting that it is "now" time to start disarm law abiding citizens, due to some commiting crimes is simply not true. This is much more about control than guns, noting that the last AWB/HCM "ban" took exactly ZERO guns off the streets.

 

[Muddy Creek]

Semi-automatic weapons only shoot one bullet per trigger pull.

A semi-automatic, or self-loading, firearm is a weapon that performs all steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again after firing—assuming cartridges remain in the weapon's feed device or magazine. Typically, this includes extracting and ejecting the spent cartridge case from the weapon's firing chamber, re-cocking the firing mechanism, and loading a new cartridge into the firing chamber. Although automatic weapons and selective fire firearms do the same tasks, semi-automatic firearms do not automatically fire an additional round until the trigger is released and re-pressed by the person firing the weapon.

While all basic firearm actions require the action to be cycled manually before the first shot, semi-automatic as well as automatic and selective fire actions are differentiated from other forms such as single-action or double-action revolvers, pump-action, bolt-action, or lever-action firearms by eliminating the need to manually cycle the weapon after each shot. For example, to fire ten rounds from a semi-automatic firearm or a selective fire weapon set to fire semi-automatically, the action would initially be cycled to load the first round and the trigger would need to be pulled ten times (once for each round fired). For the other forms, the weapon's mechanism would require cycling manually prior to firing the next round. An automatic or a selective fire weapon set to fire automatically would be able to fire continuously as long as the trigger is held until the magazine or feed device runs out of ammunition.

Semi-automatic firearm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Maybe this best explains why they should be outlawed.

 

[haymarket]

Uh, when you target one sector and 'Expose some of the more sinister' how is that not ridicule especially since 'sinister' is a subjective?

What actual record...that the lowest percentage of gun crimes are committed using 'assault rifles'? And it is these which are currently being targeted...

The actual record I refer to is the statements of some who openly state the need to have weapons to one day go to war against the government. I think that motivation needs to be exposed and the American people need to hear it loudly and clearly so they can decide if such motivations should help dictate national gun policy.

 

[haymarket]

That is utter nonsense, as even you know that the second amendment was talking about the "security of a free state" not hunting or sporting. This very nation was, at the time of its writing, very recently formed by armed citizens fighting such a revolution against a tyranical gov't; that was clearly at the forefront of the thinking that allowing for an armed civilian population would help keep ANY gov't (includoing our own) from ever getting to that point. To pretend otherwise, or asserting that it is "now" time to start disarm law abiding citizens, due to some commiting crimes is simply not true. This is much more about control than guns, noting that the last AWB/HCM "ban" took exactly ZERO guns off the streets.

I have never disputed that historical reality as one motivation behind the passing of the Second Amendment. I have never pretended otherwise. I have never denied the historical reality of it and I am not now doing so.

 

[haymarket]

This is, and should continue to be, a state issue.

It is both a state and national issue because of the US Constitution and the powers contained within it.

 

[SMTA]

You are badly confusing details of legislation with an over-arching motivation for legislation.

.
That represents 2 parallel lines that will never meet.

 

[TurtleDude]

Anything that hold the ability to shoot more than one bullet at the pull of a trigger needs to be removed.

more stupidity-no such weapon is being discussed in the current legislation. those weapons are fully automatic

try again

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

It is both a state and national issue because of the US Constitution and the powers contained within it.

What do you think the laws should be, regarding firearms?

 

[jamesrage]

Semi-automatic firearm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Maybe this best explains why they should be outlawed.

So you want practically every hand gun and many hunting rifles banned.

 

[SMTA]

What do you think the laws should be, regarding firearms?

You mean SPECIFICALLY, right Harry!?

 

[ttwtt78640]

I have never disputed that historical reality as one motivation behind the passing of the Second Amendment. I have never pretended otherwise. I have never denied the historical reality of it and I am not now doing so.

:lol: :doh When you find yourself in a deep, deep hole, it is time to stop digging. :roll:

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

You mean SPECIFICALLY, right Harry!?

Of course.

 

[haymarket]

What do you think the laws should be, regarding firearms?

Like all things in a civilized society where the rights of the individual must be balanced with the concerns and needs of the larger society, it is a careful balancing act.

I am captivated by one of the walls in the Jefferson Memorial with the words of Thomas Jefferson upon it:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

We now have to ask ourselves if the motivation that was necessary in 1789 for the Second Amendment - arming against an oppressive government and revolution - is what Jefferson is referring to as the clothing which fit the boy but no longer fits the older man.

I want a series of laws which protects the rights of all citizens to keep and bear arms for such purposes as self defense, home protection, hunting, sporting, and other legitimate uses. I am NOT willing to allow gun policy to be set because some people are motivated by extremist politics and want to stockpile weaponry that puts them on an equal footing - or a perceived better footing - with the army and police when the day of the revolution arrives.

 

[haymarket]

:lol: :doh When you find yourself in a deep, deep hole, it is time to stop digging. :roll:

No hole. No digging. Just truth.

 

[Carleen]

I get paid to give advice to politicians. Writing speeches, op-eds for the newspapers, newsletter material, policy statements, press releases - the whole gamut. I have some free advice for the President to further his gun initiatives.

1 - Play to the middle and forget about the NRA and its supporters. They oppose the very concept and the details simply do not matter since they will lie, distort and outright pervert what your are advocating for. Play to the great middle of Americans who respect hunting rights, who respect the need for a weapon for self defense, who respect sporting activities with a firearm, and who simply want something done about both the proliferation of guns in our society and the use of them.

2- Go on the road and take this message to the American people. Make it a pro-hunting, pro self defense, pro sporting and pro responsible gun owner pitch. Use local people who have a good gun record like Senator Joe Manchin in West Virginia in making local appearances.

3- Expose some of the more sinister motivations of the gun crowd who are 100% opposed to his initiatives with a clear, no holding back, direct onslaught of language showing them to be potentially dangerous extremists who have precious little in common with the vast majority of Americans. We hear over and over and over how guns are needed in case we need to fight the government. Use that. Use it often. Shout it loudly and shout it often that we will not allow gun policy to be dictated by people who believe that gun laws should always have an eye on providing equal firepower to go up against soldiers of police officers should the day of the right wing revolution come. Use those folks and that sort of extremism to drive a wedge between the responsible hunting and self defense Americans and those who feel they need to build their own armories when they someday have to man the barricades and want to make sure they are packing enough power to kill the soldier boy or police officer from down the street.

4 - Go back and do number 3 again and again and again. Use film clips of the more radical folks through surrogates going on news and talk shows to show "this is what we are up against." Ask the American people - "are you going to let these extremists speak for you and dictate gun policy so they can be armed for revolution?"

5 - Expose the finances of the gun corporations, the NRA, and the entire gun culture. Show that they are in this for a profit and that is their motivation above all else. They are more than happy to see the proliferation of guns in our society because it means money in their pockets. And if more guns means more negative effects from guns, that is a price they accept.

6- Announce a national memorial to be constructed in Washington DC in honor of the innocent victims of gun violence and involve the public by asking for donations to begin planning and building it. I would use the Viet Nam veterans Memorial as the model for the idea and concept. A stark wall with names upon it although I would go for something high and looming overhead rather than the sprawling design of the VN memorial.

7 - Show the connection between right wing politics and gun politics. This should be done by surrogates rather than the President himself. Demonstrate how the right is using the issue to push other issues which are to the detriment of the American people and its all part of a package and agenda.

8 - Try to get commitments from Hollywood and the gaming industry to act more responsibly and tone down the volume on violence they use in their products.

9 - Take the NRA suggestion of more armed guards in the schools and run with it to Congress asking them to support it and fund it. And publicly challenge the NRA to lobby for it with members of Congress who are supportive of their agenda.

10 - Announce a national mental health summit at the White House and bring in state governors and appropriate professionals to shine the spotlight on how much of the mental health care system has been savaged over the last couple of decades in the drive for smaller and cheaper government and we must begin to turn it around on the state level.

But above all else, do not let this moment evaporate. This must be a top priority just like health care was for the first two years of the administration.

I think he has already stated that he intends to take his message to the people, and I don't think he will back off of this one just as he didn't back off of healthcare.

 

[Federalist]

Of course.

I too would be happy to discuss any actual proposals.

 

[MaggieD]

It is both a state and national issue because of the US Constitution and the powers contained within it.

Actually, our current mindset is that everything should be a national issue.

The gun laws/restrictions in North Dakota would not fit Illinois, for example. Outlawing high-capacity magazines is a token gesture at best. Show me statistics that indicate these high-capacity magazines are causing crime in the United States. I've watched demonstrations on loading/re-loading 10-capacity magazines into guns, and the practiced shooter can reload three times in less than 10 seconds. This is much ado about nothing.

Get the illegal guns off the street. Punish those who use them in crime sufficiently, and we'll have solved our problem. That should be the priority. We are never going to stop nut jobs for shooting up shopping malls. That's a problem for mental health professionals...not gun restrictions.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Like all things in a civilized society where the rights of the individual must be balanced with the concerns and needs of the larger society, it is a careful balancing act.

I am captivated by one of the walls in the Jefferson Memorial with the words of Thomas Jefferson upon it:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

We now have to ask ourselves if the motivation that was necessary in 1789 for the Second Amendment - arming against an oppressive government and revolution - is what Jefferson is referring to as the clothing which fit the boy but no longer fits the older man.

I want a series of laws which protects the rights of all citizens to keep and bear arms for such purposes as self defense, home protection, hunting, sporting, and other legitimate uses. I am NOT willing to allow gun policy to be set because some people are motivated by extremist politics and want to stockpile weaponry that puts them on an equal footing - or a perceived better footing - with the army and police when the day of the revolution arrives.

While all that was very pretty, eloquent wording.
It said a whole lot about nothing.

I mean, just going by the vagueness of it, you could want hand guns and hunting rifles banned.
Police use both.