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Ad hoc rights are the most questionable

“Person,” from the Latin verb per-sonare, in English to over-sound, is someone that can make him or herself be heard by others. Only family heads—that is, male adults endowed with property—were counted as persons by the Romans. After that, other males, women, and racial minorities fought their way into the account. By convention, personal condition is assigned to children and disabled in general. By a juridical fiction, a company is also a “person,” that is, a fictitious person—because it can make itself be heard.

Now, being a “person” is not the natural condition of anyone. It is a juridical status, which has not yet been extended to unborn. Or at least evidence that it has been extended to unborn is tiny. Here we discuss the pros and cons of such hypothetical extension.
The Latin verb “per-sonare” means “to sound through”. It is a sound effect through which a special face mask was made to resonate with the voice of the actor. The related old Latin term “persona” referred to the face mask of the actor in the drama that portrayed a certain character in the part of the play. Later, it simply meant a character in acting. The word “person” also could be traced to the old French word “persone”, which appeared in English usage at around 1200. The term “persone” simply meant a human being. All these evolving terms could be traced to the ancient Etruscan word 'phersu', which means a mask.

Therefore, the term “person” is simply a word created by ancient people to denote an inanimate object which later represented something else. In this case, a face mask which later represent the character in a play. In modern usage it simply stood as a pronominal function for the term “human being”.

In abortion culture of Roe v Wade, the term was hijacked and repackaged as a death mask to hide the humanity of the unborn human being. In its place, the unborn is portrayed as a blob of inanimate object, vilified as parasitic intruders in character, and thus justifiable for the mass slaughter with impunity and guilt free.

As you had mentioned regarding the Roman censes, only family head male adults endowed with property were counted as persons, the rest such as other poor adult males without property, slaves, women and children weren’t counted as persons. So, by your criterion, it would be ok with you when a sub-class of human beings are classified as non-persons by economic status and as such could be slaughtered en mass at will with impunity by a tyrant. Don’t you see that your argument regarding censes as a measure of person is ridiculous?

If “other males, women, and racial minorities" could fight "their way into the account”, then by the same logic the advocates of the unborn human beings should also be able to fight their way into the account on their behalf.

If by convention, “personal condition" can be "assigned to children and disabled in general”, so also it should be the case that personal condition should be assigned to unborn human beings.

If by “a juridical fiction, a company is also a ‘person’”, why should you deny the unborn as a person when the legal definition of “person” simply means a human being? There is nothing “fictitious” about the biological fact that a human procreated prenatal life is a human being.

If your only logic is that a fictitious company should be legally granted as a person but not the unborns simply “because it can make itself be heard”, then millions of infants, children and adults who are either born mute, deaf, in a coma, or with brain trauma/diseases that rendered them incapable of making themselves heard would be categorically dismissed by you as non-persons.

I don’t really care whether you acknowledge a prenatal human life as a person or not. As ridiculous as it is with your contortion to sustain a system of labeling for class segregation, it wouldn’t be something I want to waste my time on if it is just a childish drama in play acting.

You can deny, exclude or embrace any group of people or fictitious boogeymen as “persons” or “chowmeins” or “hoopeehoopla” all you want. But, when you attempt to justify it for slaughter in whatever means you use in denying the life of innocence, who cannot make itself to be heard, then you have the ultimate responsibility to justify your lethal course with intelligent argument.
 
In an emotional twist, sure, but you are neglecting to mention that no-one forced her to get pregnant (in most cases)

More emotional a twist than “life actually”? And it remains a fact that, though no-one forces women – in most cases – to get pregnant, a ban on abortion forces women to go on pregnancy beyond the moment that some of them would have stopped. It is forced pregnancy from that moment onwards, isn’t it?
 
More emotional a twist than “life actually”? And it remains a fact that, though no-one forces women – in most cases – to get pregnant, a ban on abortion forces women to go on pregnancy beyond the moment that some of them would have stopped. It is forced pregnancy from that moment onwards, isn’t it?

Do you pay taxes?
 
I would love to see your answer to my question in post 63.
Perhaps if you can formulate it to make sense, because as it is it does not, at least to me, I'll give it a try.
 
Since you said you work close to the census bureau I suspect you are a tax collector. :)

Nope, I work for a different three letter. IRS is in a different place entirely. The point of the question was that you don't always have choice, that doesn't make you less human or mean you have less rights because you don't always have a choice.
 
Perhaps if you can formulate it to make sense, because as it is it does not, at least to me, I'll give it a try.

How does this not makes sense:

Why would the census count an entity that has no rights? Has the census ever counted an entity that did not have rights?
 
How does this not makes sense:

Why would the census count an entity that has no rights? Has the census ever counted an entity that did not have rights?

Still no answer? Ok, let me lay it out for you. The census straw man is moot. This is why: The census not counting the unborn is not any denial of rights of the unborn child. Why? Because slaves were counted and they were without rights. It's a simple function of government to determine appropriate number of elected officials and is also used to allocate resources. It has zip to do with rights, born or otherwise.
 
Still no answer? Ok, let me lay it out for you. The census straw man is moot. This is why: The census not counting the unborn is not any denial of rights of the unborn child. Why? Because slaves were counted and they were without rights. It's a simple function of government to determine appropriate number of elected officials and is also used to allocate resources. It has zip to do with rights, born or otherwise.
You are looking at this from a wrong perspective. You are right that the census in and by itself is not the source of rights. Society is by recognizing them and enforcing violations. So who gets rights, everybody that society deems worthy. Those "people" count and those who do not get rights do not count. There a some very specific exceptions to this and they do not alter the basic principle, but ultimately those who get rights are recognized as people who merit representation and allocation or "resources" thus are counted in the census. In other words, being counted in the census is a validation or being recognized.
I believe that you work for the IRS, correct me if I am wrong. Why do you suppose that fetuses can not be counted as dependents? I mean children ARE legitimate dependents why not fetuses?
 
You are right that the census in and by itself is not the source of rights.

Done and done. the census argument is a straw man and even you see that.

I believe that you work for the IRS, correct me if I am wrong. Why do you suppose that fetuses can not be counted as dependents? I mean children ARE legitimate dependents why not fetuses?

You are corrected.
 
Done and done. the census argument is a straw man and even you see that.
It is not a strawman argument it is a very clear validation of the insignificance of the fetus in the eyes of society.

You are corrected.
My apologies, I thought I saw a reference to that. Still you could have answered the question with your perspective on it.
 
It is not a strawman argument it is a very clear validation of the insignificance of the fetus in the eyes of society.

My apologies, I thought I saw a reference to that. Still you could have answered the question with your perspective on it.

Another irrelevancy. The purpose of claiming Dependants in regards to taxes is to get a tax break for the expense of Dependants. Again, it has nothing to do with person hood.
 
Nope, I work for a different three letter. IRS is in a different place entirely. The point of the question was that you don't always have choice, that doesn't make you less human or mean you have less rights because you don't always have a choice.

What is the reason why conscription was suppressed in the US? Male conscription is the closest to forced or compulsory pregnancy of women under antiabortion laws. The reason that had public opinion deem the former undesirable is the same as supports the pro-choice position.
 
What is the reason why conscription was suppressed in the US? Male conscription is the closest to forced or compulsory pregnancy of women under antiabortion laws. The reason that had public opinion deem the former undesirable is the same as supports the pro-choice position.

Well, first, I don't see any real similarity in the two issues. Second, conscription (the draft) is still possible in the US, it just isn't used. Several Democrats have tried to get the draft reinstated though.
 
Another irrelevancy.
Naturally. we can now redefine irrelevancy as anything that does not suit your position or can not otherwise refute. I'll inform the dictionary publishers.

The purpose of claiming Dependants in regards to taxes is to get a tax break for the expense of Dependants.
No **** Sherlock, you think? Now try this for size. why only people can be dependents? I mean my dog totally depends on me and I can not get a tax break. On the other hand, people, you know the recognized as existing entities, are OK. Go figure.

Again, it has nothing to do with person hood.
Yet only persons are dependents. Maybe you should rethink that.
 
Naturally. we can now redefine irrelevancy as anything that does not suit your position or can not otherwise refute. I'll inform the dictionary publishers.

No **** Sherlock, you think? Now try this for size. why only people can be dependents? I mean my dog totally depends on me and I can not get a tax break. On the other hand, people, you know the recognized as existing entities, are OK. Go figure.

Yet only persons are dependents. Maybe you should rethink that.

I already refuted this. Stop comparing apples to oranges. Your recent arguments are like saying the sky is blue because the unborn child has no rights.
 
I already refuted this.
You wished.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.
I am not comparing anything, only stating the obvious, which you have yet to refute.

Your recent arguments are like saying the sky is blue because the unborn child has no rights.
If that is your understanding there is little I can do about it and am not surprised then that you could not offer any rebuttal.
 
You wished.

I am not comparing anything, only stating the obvious, which you have yet to refute.

If that is your understanding there is little I can do about it and am not surprised then that you could not offer any rebuttal.

You can claim repeatedly that the moon is made of Munster. At the end of the day, that won't be true, either.
 
I could, but I will not nor did I. It would look as silly as what you just posted.

Well, not as silly as your claim that the Census and Tax dependency define rights.
 
Well, not as silly as your claim that the Census and Tax dependency define rights.
Why do you find it necessary to lie? Really why?
In post #86 I clearly indicates that "You are right that the census in and by itself is not the source of rights." Now is that you did not understand this although it is very simply stated or you are just that perfidious that you can not stand being proven wrong? I mean , man this is an anonymous internet debate, sure at times charged and snippy, but repeated lying? How low do you wish to go?
 
Why do you find it necessary to lie? Really why?
In post #86 I clearly indicates that "You are right that the census in and by itself is not the source of rights." Now is that you did not understand this although it is very simply stated or you are just that perfidious that you can not stand being proven wrong? I mean , man this is an anonymous internet debate, sure at times charged and snippy, but repeated lying? How low do you wish to go?

Your assumption that you are correct leads you to the erroneous (and tiresomely frequent) judgement of my honesty.
 
Your assumption that you are correct leads you to the erroneous (and tiresomely frequent) judgement of my honesty.
My assumption? What a load of ****. Are you this desperate? The clear opposite of what you lied is quoted and referenced for you and you still lie. This is a new standard for low. Can you see any light out of that pit?
 
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