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ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provisions...

grip

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Obama had no problem targeting and killing an American citizen so this is somehow some biased conspiracy? The ACLU has now taken up with the Rush?

The days of confusion are quickly coming upon us, when up is down and left is right. When you see Green Peace, the ACLU and Stewart agreeing with Rush, Hannity and Cheney, then the 7th sign will appear with thunder from the clouds...lol
 

Thunder

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

There are sources all over. I posted from KOS yesterday when someone else though they would try and simply dismiss the idea that perhaps Levin never said this and it was just made up.

Obama had no problem targeting and killing an American citizen so this is somehow some biased conspiracy?....

Obama has never targeted anyone in the USA, citizen or otherwise, to be killed.
 

1Perry

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Obama has never targeted anyone in the USA, citizen or otherwise, to be killed.

This is why it's a complete waste of time to even attempt to discuss anything with you.
 

Thunder

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

This is why it's a complete waste of time to even attempt to discuss anything with you.

nor has Obama seeked to detain anyone legally in the USA, without charge/trial.
 

coolwalker

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

I believe it was a political vote, he didn't want to veto it because then the republicans would be able to drive home the message that he doesn't care about national defense and all that crap, but when it comes to something like this, anyone with integrity would be willing to sacrifice the next election and not let this unconstitutional crap become law. Just another sign of how disappointing he has been, I voted for a liberal, not Bush-Lite.

Obama is to egotistical to sacrifice himself for anything. A "statesman" would, but he is no statesman. Besides, you are tossing political rhetoric around like a basketball.
 

misterman

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

However, I noted before that Section 1031 does include US citizens. Thus, the two sections, 1031 and 1032, contradict each other.

1031 is no longer 1031 in the new version.
 

Catawba

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

The bill did enjoy bipartisan support, after all.

It still does, All of the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman support the Patriot Act.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

It still does, All of the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman support the Patriot Act.

So do all of the current Democratic Presidents.
 

Karl

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Actually it can be used against US citizens as the bill states that "the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States." However, the wording of the bill is extremely important as it states quite clearly that the military detaining US citizens is not a requirement, meaning that it isn't mandatory that you be detained. Yet that doesn't mean that the US military doesn't have the option of detaining US citizens.
It also doesn't mean that the US military doesn't have the option of confiscating all chocolate ice cream since, by your reasoning (and that of others), anything that is not specifically prohibited is therefore permitted.

Please show me that clause as I read the bill and Section 1031 does not exempt US citizens.
You must be looking at an older version of the bill. Here is what was passed by the Senate, and what became law (note: the House version, and the law itself (not yet available at the Gov't Printing Office) numbers this section 1021 but the text and the subparagraph nomenclature is the same):

"Section 1031(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

You can see this on page 428 of the 926 page PDF, line 10: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf

You can find an HTML link at Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress) but you MUST click on the link that says S.1867.ES (otherwise you will get the old version of the bill and you will not find sub-paragraph (e).

This has all been posted before at one of the several threads here on the subject.
 

Karl

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

1031 is no longer 1031 in the new version.
1031 and 1032 are the Senate numbering scheme (S 1867).

In the House version (HR 1540), which is what was actually passed into law, the numbers are 1021 and 1022.

However, if one is looking at the latest version of the Senate bill, the text in those sections is the same.

Senate bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

House bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
 

misterman

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

1031 and 1032 are the Senate numbering scheme (S 1867).

In the House version (HR 1540), which is what was actually passed into law, the numbers are 1021 and 1022.

However, if one is looking at the latest version of the Senate bill, the text in those sections is the same.

Senate bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

House bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Thanks. I looked at the enrolled version, which should be the final version, but I don't know why it was so different.
 

Mr. Invisible

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Time to end this:

Definitely. To finally close this argument about whether the bill allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens, Obama stated when he signed the bill that his "Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens." Thus, he does acknowledge that the bill allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens.

Either way, the President can still indefinitely detain US citizens under the Patriot Act and the 2006 Military Commissions Act

Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.

Thus, at the end of the day the President can, in fact, detain US citizens indefinitely.
 

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

...Either way, the President can still indefinitely detain US citizens under the Patriot Act and the 2006 Military Commissions Act

....Thus, at the end of the day the President can, in fact, detain US citizens indefinitely.

actually no, he cannot.

that is why NO ONE is currently being detained without charge/trial, be they legal resident of the USA or citizen.

EVERYBODY at GITMO was arrested outside of the USA.
 

Mr. Invisible

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

actually no, he cannot.

that is why NO ONE is currently being detained without charge/trial, be they legal resident of the USA or citizen.

EVERYBODY at GITMO was arrested outside of the USA.

Just keep ignoring evidence if it floats your boat.
 

Karl

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Just keep ignoring evidence if it floats your boat.
Just keep polishing that tin foil hat; the next transmission from Planet Conspiracy could arrive at any time :mrgreen:
 

Catawba

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

So do all of the current Democratic Presidents.

Since all the viable candidates for president support the Patriot Act, it will be up to Congress to end it.

Here was the last vote in Congress to end the Patriot Act, in May, 2011:

The 13 Democrats who voted to halt reauthorization of the Patriot Act
Senator Max Baucus
Senator Mark Begich
Senator Jeff Bingaman
Senator Sherrod Brown
Senator Maria Cantwell
Senator Benjamin Cardin
Senator Patrick Leahy
Senator Jeff Merkley
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Senator Jon Tester
Senator Mark Udall
Senator Tom Udall
Senator Ron Wyden

The 4 Republicans who voted to halt reauthorization of the Patriot Act
Senator Dean Heller
Senator Mike Lee
Senator Lisa Murkowski
Senator Rand Paul

And props also go out to the 1 Independent voting against the Patriot Act, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

(Source: Roll Call 081 in the U.S. Senate, May 26 2011 at 10:00 AM)


13 Democrats, 4 Republicans and 1 Independent Vote to Stop Patriot Act Reauthorization | Irregular Times
 
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Gonzo Rodeo

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

do tell us, how many Democratic Presidents we currently have?

Just the one. You could have googled that.
 

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Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Since all the viable candidates for president support the Patriot Act, it will be up to Congress to end it.

Most of the PATRIOT Act was pretty tame stuff. There were a few really awful parts, but you can just remove those and not have to stop the whole thing. And some of those things were fixed in the reauthorization, though not all.
 
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