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Absolutely sick and tired of it....

Imnukingfutz

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Like many people out there I am sick and tired of our politicians doing things that are more beneficial to their (and their party's) chances of re-election rather than what the Constitution allows or common sense dictates.

The latest straw to be placed upon the camels back is the "extension" of Obamacare provision that mandates employers provide benefits or pay a fine. This provision has been delayed for 1 year...after the mid-term elections.

If this law is so important and, as the proponents claim, people are dying every day because they dont have health care coverage, wouldnt you think that the sooner they implement this law the sooner people will stop dying? (Sarcasm)

But apparently it isnt that important because all too many unions, companies & if the Immigration bill were to pass, all the newly legalized immigrants would all be immune to Obamacare. If it was such an important thing, why are the politicians buddies & large donors getting waivers? If they want to make all the illegals legal, shouldnt they also have to conform to our laws and not be immune to them?

Pandering for votes is all it is.

This upcoming election we need to get rid of these self important politicians who are more worried about themselves than they are doing the job they were elected to do in the first place.

If you are one of those who believe in your party (Rep or Dem) keep voting for them...but elect new blood, stop this same old same old B.S. by not re-electing the same old turds that have been soiling our capitol & W.H. for years.

They are the problem and the solution is to fire each and every one of them and elect real honest citizens to represent us. From the house to the Senate to the W.H. we need new blood. New blood that has not been corrupted by the business as usual mentality in Washington.
 

thinkforyoursel

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The banks and corporations own the government. This free market people talk about is such a farce because these corporations need to own the politicians to stack the deck in their favor.
For example Tesla wants to sell its car directly to the consumer ...as well as through dealers ...and the politicians (at the behest of the auto dealers) want to stop that. All Tesla want is a system like apple I-phone ...you can buy your I-phone directly from apple ...or you can buy it at Walmart. The auto dealer can't have that ...and guess who is clamping down on Tesla ....yep the right wing ...FREE MARKET purveyors....yep people like Rick Perry.

The Right Wing is more of a problem because they vote too much on their emotions. This is why abortions and gay marriage cannot end ....the right is constantly stoked up about these issues...it's a simple formula:
1) Get them white hot about some issues (blacks taking your money on welfare....or gays want to get married....)
2)Get their vote
3) Then proceed to do the corporation biddings

It also happens to the DEMs as well, but the difference is the DEMs always vote in their own self interest ....they will get it wrong...they may be fooled ....but they vote to better their lives. Those people you can work with.
On the right ...it's always about emotions and fear and scare ....and they will intentionally vote against their own self interest...they are the problem!!
When we watch the collapse of the banks and the bail outs ...and collectively people can't see this scam and come together as one about this .....nothing is going to change.
Where were the rightwing on this ...when bush wanted to fork over billions to the banks ...where was the right.....they were trained by FAUX news to dog and vilify the "occupiers" as if they had no cause!!

When I see this ....I see a country ....ensuring it's own demise!!
 

Threegoofs

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Like many people out there I am sick and tired of our politicians doing things that are more beneficial to their (and their party's) chances of re-election rather than what the Constitution allows or common sense dictates.

The latest straw to be placed upon the camels back is the "extension" of Obamacare provision that mandates employers provide benefits or pay a fine. This provision has been delayed for 1 year...after the mid-term elections.

If this law is so important and, as the proponents claim, people are dying every day because they dont have health care coverage, wouldnt you think that the sooner they implement this law the sooner people will stop dying? (Sarcasm).

But this isnt being done for political purposes. Its being done because this law is extremely complex to put into place, the roadblocks that Republican governers have put into place in many states is making businesses appeal for an extension. The administration has granted that extension. Its not real different from other complex programs that have been put into place - delays happen.

You seem to think the democrats are afraid to have the law take effect, however its pretty clear that more people having healthcare coverage will make a lot more people appreciate the law.

So your example is pretty silly. You must have gotten it from Fox and Friends or something.
 

Fenton

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But this isnt being done for political
purposes. Its being done because
this law is extremely complex to put into place, the roadblocks that Republican governers have put into place in many states is making businesses appeal for an extension. The administration has granted that extension. Its not real different from other complex programs that have been put into place - delays happen.

You seem to think the democrats are afraid to have the law take effect, however its pretty clear that more people having healthcare coverage will make a lot more people appreciate the law.

So your example is pretty silly. You must have gotten it from Fox and Friends or something.

Wow, they've got you completely snowed over.

It has nothing to do with it's "complexity".

Is that why Obama handed out wavers ? Because it was complex ?

And seeing how this disastrous law has caused premiums to shoot UP 2500 a year or more, what makes you think people aren't going to just pay the fine ?

Remember this law was suppose to " lower the deficit" and we were SUPPOSE to have 4-6% GDP growth by now, not millions more dependent on Government assistance.

You people really screwed this Country with your blind allegiance.
 
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Mach

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But apparently it isnt that important because all too many unions, companies & if the Immigration bill were to pass, all the newly legalized immigrants would all be immune to Obamacare. If it was such an important thing, why are the politicians buddies & large donors getting waivers? If they want to make all the illegals legal, shouldnt they also have to conform to our laws and not be immune to them?
Pandering for votes is all it is.
Of course it is. IT's like this with all the important laws. Go look up exempt vs, non-exempt and look at the exempt waivers...pandering has gotten waivers because they have the political popularity. It's shameful and destructive.

This is why politics should rule as little of our system as possible. It cannot HELP but be corrupted in that way, even when it's working at its best. Meanwhile, if I don't like my home, I can move in a few weeks. Don't like my lawn service I can swap that out with a phone call. School? Have to time it but with enough money I can pretty much get in where I want, when I want, as long as its private anyway. But on political things? Forget it. Maybe spend your entire life and you may make a very small dent in one very narrow issue....a far cry from how the private market services me on a daily basis with 100x the efficiency.
 

Masada

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The banks and corporations own the government. This free market people talk about is such a farce because these corporations need to own the politicians to stack the deck in their favor.
For example Tesla wants to sell its car directly to the consumer ...as well as through dealers ...and the politicians (at the behest of the auto dealers) want to stop that. All Tesla want is a system like apple I-phone ...you can buy your I-phone directly from apple ...or you can buy it at Walmart. The auto dealer can't have that ...and guess who is clamping down on Tesla ....yep the right wing ...FREE MARKET purveyors....yep people like Rick Perry.

The Right Wing is more of a problem because they vote too much on their emotions. This is why abortions and gay marriage cannot end ....the right is constantly stoked up about these issues...it's a simple formula:
1) Get them white hot about some issues (blacks taking your money on welfare....or gays want to get married....)
2)Get their vote
3) Then proceed to do the corporation biddings

It also happens to the DEMs as well, but the difference is the DEMs always vote in their own self interest ....they will get it wrong...they may be fooled ....but they vote to better their lives. Those people you can work with.
On the right ...it's always about emotions and fear and scare ....and they will intentionally vote against their own self interest...they are the problem!!
When we watch the collapse of the banks and the bail outs ...and collectively people can't see this scam and come together as one about this .....nothing is going to change.
Where were the rightwing on this ...when bush wanted to fork over billions to the banks ...where was the right.....they were trained by FAUX news to dog and vilify the "occupiers" as if they had no cause!!

When I see this ....I see a country ....ensuring it's own demise!!

This is the most perverted version of reality I've ever read here in this forum.
 

instagramsci

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Welcome to liberal democracy
 

Summerwind

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But this isnt being done for political purposes. Its being done because this law is extremely complex to put into place, the roadblocks that Republican governers have put into place in many states is making businesses appeal for an extension. The administration has granted that extension. Its not real different from other complex programs that have been put into place - delays happen.

You seem to think the democrats are afraid to have the law take effect, however its pretty clear that more people having healthcare coverage will make a lot more people appreciate the law.

So your example is pretty silly. You must have gotten it from Fox and Friends or something.
Unless and until he also suspends/delays implementation on individuals re: taxes and penalties for not acquiring insurance, then I have to say it's just more of the government, legislators and admin alike, suckling upon the dicks of the 1%ers.
 

calamity

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My guess is the mandate was postponed so it could be cancelled altogether. Problems appeared, especially when it came to be shown that employers were choosing not to hire additional low-wage workers instead of crossing the "insurance threshold" and, as a result, being forced to provide healthcare to everyone. in other words, it became apparent that the law was not workable.
 

YoungConserv

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The banks and corporations own the government.

This is why we limit the powers of government to the enumerated powers if they don't have the power to do favors the corporations won't try and control them.
 

Summerwind

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Threegoofs

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Unless and until he also suspends/delays implementation on individuals re: taxes and penalties for not acquiring insurance, then I have to say it's just more of the government, legislators and admin alike, suckling upon the dicks of the 1%ers.


I think thats pretty clear it will happen - or at least a short term fix would be in for those people who have employers who dont offer insurance.
 

Imnukingfutz

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The banks and corporations own the government. This free market people talk about is such a farce because these corporations need to own the politicians to stack the deck in their favor.
For example Tesla wants to sell its car directly to the consumer ...as well as through dealers ...and the politicians (at the behest of the auto dealers) want to stop that. All Tesla want is a system like apple I-phone ...you can buy your I-phone directly from apple ...or you can buy it at Walmart. The auto dealer can't have that ...and guess who is clamping down on Tesla ....yep the right wing ...FREE MARKET purveyors....yep people like Rick Perry.

The Right Wing is more of a problem because they vote too much on their emotions. This is why abortions and gay marriage cannot end ....the right is constantly stoked up about these issues...it's a simple formula:
1) Get them white hot about some issues (blacks taking your money on welfare....or gays want to get married....)
2)Get their vote
3) Then proceed to do the corporation biddings

It also happens to the DEMs as well, but the difference is the DEMs always vote in their own self interest ....they will get it wrong...they may be fooled ....but they vote to better their lives. Those people you can work with.
On the right ...it's always about emotions and fear and scare ....and they will intentionally vote against their own self interest...they are the problem!!
When we watch the collapse of the banks and the bail outs ...and collectively people can't see this scam and come together as one about this .....nothing is going to change.
Where were the rightwing on this ...when bush wanted to fork over billions to the banks ...where was the right.....they were trained by FAUX news to dog and vilify the "occupiers" as if they had no cause!!

When I see this ....I see a country ....ensuring it's own demise!!

You are one of those people who think your political side is better than the other. Well wake up, they are one and the friggin same, with very little difference.
 

Imnukingfutz

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But this isnt being done for political purposes. Its being done because this law is extremely complex to put into place, the roadblocks that Republican governers have put into place in many states is making businesses appeal for an extension. The administration has granted that extension. Its not real different from other complex programs that have been put into place - delays happen.

You seem to think the democrats are afraid to have the law take effect, however its pretty clear that more people having healthcare coverage will make a lot more people appreciate the law.

So your example is pretty silly. You must have gotten it from Fox and Friends or something.

The law may be extremely complex but maybe they should have read it before they passed it huh?

people being forced to purchase a product or pay a fine to exercise their citizenship is friggin insane.

By the way, how do you Obamacare supporters feel about being lied to directly to your face? Our President looked you in the eye and directly lied to you. Doesnt that leave a nasty taste in your mouth?
 

CRUE CAB

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Like many people out there I am sick and tired of our politicians doing things that are more beneficial to their (and their party's) chances of re-election rather than what the Constitution allows or common sense dictates.

The latest straw to be placed upon the camels back is the "extension" of Obamacare provision that mandates employers provide benefits or pay a fine. This provision has been delayed for 1 year...after the mid-term elections.

If this law is so important and, as the proponents claim, people are dying every day because they dont have health care coverage, wouldnt you think that the sooner they implement this law the sooner people will stop dying? (Sarcasm)

But apparently it isnt that important because all too many unions, companies & if the Immigration bill were to pass, all the newly legalized immigrants would all be immune to Obamacare. If it was such an important thing, why are the politicians buddies & large donors getting waivers? If they want to make all the illegals legal, shouldnt they also have to conform to our laws and not be immune to them?

Pandering for votes is all it is.

This upcoming election we need to get rid of these self important politicians who are more worried about themselves than they are doing the job they were elected to do in the first place.

If you are one of those who believe in your party (Rep or Dem) keep voting for them...but elect new blood, stop this same old same old B.S. by not re-electing the same old turds that have been soiling our capitol & W.H. for years.

They are the problem and the solution is to fire each and every one of them and elect real honest citizens to represent us. From the house to the Senate to the W.H. we need new blood. New blood that has not been corrupted by the business as usual mentality in Washington.
Did you vote last general election?
 

Threegoofs

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The law may be extremely complex but maybe they should have read it before they passed it huh?

people being forced to purchase a product or pay a fine to exercise their citizenship is friggin insane.

By the way, how do you Obamacare supporters feel about being lied to directly to your face? Our President looked you in the eye and directly lied to you. Doesnt that leave a nasty taste in your mouth?

I cant imagine any lawmakers didnt read it before it passed. Of course, if you understood how bills are written, you'd understand that one cannot read an entire bill - its literally nonsensical unless you have memorized the laws that it is amending. You read an executive summary.

How did Obama directly lie? This should be good....
 

ashurbanipal

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MaggieD said:
Two words: Term Limits.

Term limits will not work. The country is run by monied interests who simply do not share the concerns of most of us. Those who do run things will always find candidates willing to work for money. We may kick out Senator x or Congressman y after their two-term limit (kick-out may be harsh). All that will mean is that BofA and Citicorp will have the next guy/gal lined up, who will do the same thing as his/her predecessor. What we really need are a repeal, at the state level, of laws that make it difficult to get other parties on the ballot, and regulations on the media.

The problem we are facing, on a deep philosophical level, is this: the Constitution is written witth a model of human beings that was more-or-less common in the Enlightenment. The brave who wish to research this subject should read Locke's Essay Concerning Human Understanding and compare to Hume's Treatise on Human Nature. The founding fathers liked the apparent reasonability of the former; the latter had't gained much fame this side of the atlantic at that time. But Hume was right, Locke was wrong. Human beings are not basically rational and maximally self-interested, and information does not flow through societies in a maximally efficient manner. I think it would be fairly easy to fix things, but the real issue is that you have to understand what human beings are first. Then you start designing. The founding fathers simply got some critical facts about human nature wrong. It wasn't their fault; they were working on the best theories available to them. But we need to update things.
 

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Term limits will not work. The country is run by monied interests who simply do not share the concerns of most of us. Those who do run things will always find candidates willing to work for money. We may kick out Senator x or Congressman y after their two-term limit (kick-out may be harsh). All that will mean is that BofA and Citicorp will have the next guy/gal lined up, who will do the same thing as his/her predecessor. What we really need are a repeal, at the state level, of laws that make it difficult to get other parties on the ballot, and regulations on the media.

The problem we are facing, on a deep philosophical level, is this: the Constitution is written witth a model of human beings that was more-or-less common in the Enlightenment. The brave who wish to research this subject should read Locke's Essay Concerning Human Understanding and compare to Hume's Treatise on Human Nature. The founding fathers liked the apparent reasonability of the former; the latter had't gained much fame this side of the atlantic at that time. But Hume was right, Locke was wrong. Human beings are not basically rational and maximally self-interested, and information does not flow through societies in a maximally efficient manner. I think it would be fairly easy to fix things, but the real issue is that you have to understand what human beings are first. Then you start designing. The founding fathers simply got some critical facts about human nature wrong. It wasn't their fault; they were working on the best theories available to them. But we need to update things.

While I can appreciate what you're saying about "the next guy lined up," I don't see your solutions making sense. First, we are never going to silence the media. Secondly, I don't understand how making it harder for other parties to run for office is going to solve a damned thing. ??

IMO, if a two-term limit makes sense for the POTUS, then a two-term limit makes sense for congressmen. If they weren't pandering for their re-election every minute they were in office, my common sense tells me they'd vote more honestly. I know it isn't perfect. I can see them pandering for JOBS, for INFLUENCE after their terms are up. But what we're doing now is most definitely not working. I see term limits as a step in the right direction.

PLUS, we wouldn't be funding their golden pension plans for thirty years. ;)
 

ttwtt78640

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According to the Obama clause in the constitution, he may do pretty much as he wants, from "dreamy" immigration law enforcement to selective alterations in the PPACA law's schedule, that's why we call it ObamaCare, after all. All Obama has to do is cite complexity, lack of resources or fairness and make "needed" adjustments to existing law as he sees fit - look it up!
 

Summerwind

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According to the Obama clause in the constitution, he may do pretty much as he wants, from "dreamy" immigration law enforcement to selective alterations in the PPACA law's schedule, that's why we call it ObamaCare, after all. All Obama has to do is cite complexity, lack of resources or fairness and make "needed" adjustments to existing law as he sees fit - look it up!
Only complete idiots attempt to blame only one politician, or government representative for the inequality and injustice in the USA. The problems are fundamental to the system and systemic in both state and federal government through nearly all politicians and police/penal and judges.
 

ashurbanipal

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MaggieD said:
While I can appreciate what you're saying about "the next guy lined up," I don't see your solutions making sense. First, we are never going to silence the media. Secondly, I don't understand how making it harder for other parties to run for office is going to solve a damned thing. ??

I'm sorry; I was in a bit of a hurry when I made that post. Here's what I mean:

Other parties should be allowed to run with far fewer restrictions than are currently placed upon them, and it should be more or less the same in every state. If a party can get, say, 2500 signatures or so within a week of the general election, they ought to be able to get their candidate on the ballot without meeting any further additions.

Also, I do not wish to silence the press. I do think, in order to break the hold of monied interests (mainly banks and corporations), we need to establish rules about debate coverage and commercial air-time which all news agencies have to stick with, and which guarantee roughly equal time to anyone on the ballot.

Here's an example of what I mean: every election year, the presidential candidate from the socialist party, the constitution party, the green party, and probably some others, challenge the Republican and Democratic party presidential candidates to a debate. They are always turned down, because debates are run by private entities funded by corporations. If you study how the elections in the Roman Republic used to work, this is pretty close to the same. People need to be able to hear other ideas, and they need to be able to see those ideas tested in honest debate.

MaggieD said:
IMO, if a two-term limit makes sense for the POTUS, then a two-term limit makes sense for congressmen. If they weren't pandering for their re-election every minute they were in office, my common sense tells me they'd vote more honestly. I know it isn't perfect. I can see them pandering for JOBS, for INFLUENCE after their terms are up. But what we're doing now is most definitely not working. I see term limits as a step in the right direction.

I'm afraid I disagree. It would give those interests that have a very firm hold now an absolute death-grip. Since I used to play this game on a smaller scale, here's how I would operate if term limits were in place, and I was in charge of donating my company's money to a particular set of campaigns. First, I would make clear to the chosen candidate that they work for us. They're going to get two terms, and then who knows where fate will take them? Do they want a position in a cushy think-tank with a six-figure sallary, lecture and lobbying opportunities, etc? Or do they want to end up managing a Wendy's (or worse)? Because I (not I myself, but the fictional "I" in this scenario) can make either happen.

The only thing that affects me is that when I really need something done, I have to buy multiple elections. That's really no problem, since I have a whole industry next to me that understands cooperation with the appearance of competition is the best means of making money. We may try to undersell each other at the retail level, but the people in charge of the companies in my industry understand that the political conditions which favor all, favor each. So we buy a block of politicians, from whom we expect results. If we don't get those results, we make examples of them. They end up as ditch-diggers when they get out of office. Maybe one or two have a fatal accident. Either way, the next bunch understand we have laws we want passed, and it's their job to do it. If they do it, they get paid. If they don't, they get fired, just like the last bunch.

Being in office is far from the end-all, be-all of power, money, and influence. Politicians with term limits will be, if anything, even more frightened of what happens after their term is done.

MaggieD said:
PLUS, we wouldn't be funding their golden pension plans for thirty years.

I've known some of these uber-rich that own elections. Let me tell you: they don't always figure out how to get someone else to pay for the golden parachute, but they're far better at playing the game than most people could possibly understand. Something like this would not be seen as an obstacle, but as a reason to offload more and more costs onto the general public. I was on my way to the same fate, until I began to realize what that really means.
 
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