A volleyball player’s gender led to secret votes, pressure campaigns and forfeits

[j brown's body]

"The NCAA requires transgender athletes to complete one year of testosterone suppression treatment before competing on a women’s team. The Mountain West’s policy, as of 2022, is that an athlete can compete if they meet those requirements.

“Our athletes all comply with NCAA and Mountain West Conference policies, and they are eligible to play under the rules of those organizations,” a San José State spokeswoman said in a statement. “We abhor that our students would be used for political purposes, and we continue to be concerned about the implications of doing so. We will continue to take measures to ensure the safety of our students while they pursue their earned opportunities to compete, and we remain committed to fostering an inclusive and caring environment for our student athletes.”

In August, NCAA President Charlie Baker wrote in a letter to Congress that “The NCAA’s transgender student-athlete participation policy is not mandatory, and federal, state and local laws supersede the Association’s policy. Schools may also choose to operate in a different way due to institutional values.”

With those murky guidelines, Mountain West schools faced a flood of pressure this fall, both locally and from across the country. They heard from fans and alumni on both sides of the issue. Multiple lobbying groups reached out, all opposed to them playing San José State. Burman, Wyoming’s AD, responded to one forfeit request by detailing his and the team’s thought process in late September.

“I absolutely respect your position and agree with many arguments you made,” he wrote. “I do think it is important to note, we have played against this athlete for the past two seasons and our student-athletes felt safe in the previous matches. She is not the best or most dominant hitter on the Spartans team.

“Having said that it doesn’t make it ok. We have made our position known to the MWC and San José State that we think this is inappropriate, but she does meet all the NCAA standards for competition and is eligible. If we did choose to not compete, we would have to forfeit both matches and our student-athletes are not in favor of forfeiting two matches.”

https://wapo.st/4982RPO

Man, what a sad story for this poor transwoman who meets the requirements to play on this woman's volleyball team, and has for the last two years without comment. And then, gets outed by a former friend.

Allied against this woman are lobbying other teams to forfeit games against her team.

The NCAA tells Congress their own participation policy is "optional," paving the way for demonization.

Its, like, wow, you're living your life and following all the rule and then bam, the right-wing drops this culture war in your lap and pressure campaigns from lobbying groups, Congressional leaders, the NCAA and other teams come at you.

Its a disgrace.

 

[Phys251]

"The NCAA requires transgender athletes to complete one year of testosterone suppression treatment before competing on a women’s team. The Mountain West’s policy, as of 2022, is that an athlete can compete if they meet those requirements.

“Our athletes all comply with NCAA and Mountain West Conference policies, and they are eligible to play under the rules of those organizations,” a San José State spokeswoman said in a statement. “We abhor that our students would be used for political purposes, and we continue to be concerned about the implications of doing so. We will continue to take measures to ensure the safety of our students while they pursue their earned opportunities to compete, and we remain committed to fostering an inclusive and caring environment for our student athletes.”

In August, NCAA President Charlie Baker wrote in a letter to Congress that “The NCAA’s transgender student-athlete participation policy is not mandatory, and federal, state and local laws supersede the Association’s policy. Schools may also choose to operate in a different way due to institutional values.”

With those murky guidelines, Mountain West schools faced a flood of pressure this fall, both locally and from across the country. They heard from fans and alumni on both sides of the issue. Multiple lobbying groups reached out, all opposed to them playing San José State. Burman, Wyoming’s AD, responded to one forfeit request by detailing his and the team’s thought process in late September.

“I absolutely respect your position and agree with many arguments you made,” he wrote. “I do think it is important to note, we have played against this athlete for the past two seasons and our student-athletes felt safe in the previous matches. She is not the best or most dominant hitter on the Spartans team.

“Having said that it doesn’t make it ok. We have made our position known to the MWC and San José State that we think this is inappropriate, but she does meet all the NCAA standards for competition and is eligible. If we did choose to not compete, we would have to forfeit both matches and our student-athletes are not in favor of forfeiting two matches.”

https://wapo.st/4982RPO

Man, what a sad story for this poor transwoman who meets the requirements to play on this woman's volleyball team, and has for the last two years without comment. And then, gets outed by a former friend.

Allied against this woman are lobbying other teams to forfeit games against her team.

The NCAA tells Congress their own participation policy is "optional," paving the way for demonization.

Its, like, wow, you're living your life and following all the rule and then bam, the right-wing drops this culture war in your lap and pressure campaigns from lobbying groups, Congressional leaders, the NCAA and other teams come at you.

Its a disgrace.

The Genital-Obsessed Party needs to learn that private parts are private. That is a lesson we learned when we were two years old. Clearly, these uncivilized fools did not learn that lesson.

 

[Boots]

The NCAA tells Congress their own participation policy is "optional," paving the way for demonization.

Can you please explain what you mean by that sentence? I'm just not following it. Thanks.

 

[cpwill]

Its, like, wow, you're living your life and following all the rule and then bam, the right-wing drops this culture war in your lap

Respectfully, this is some strategic gaslighting. It is progressives who are generally on the offensive in the culture war - it is in the very name: they want society to "progress" along their preferred vision.

Putting disagreement about which vision is better for human flourishing aside, it is simply the truth that it was progressives who decided to push this trans stuff.

if

​

A does X​

and

​

B objects to X​

then for

​

A to complain about how OMG B Is So Obsessed With X Why Are They Making This A Deal, They Are Starting This Disagreement​

is way off.


I mean, this:

Tom punches Joe​

Joe says "Why the hell did you punch me? I'm going to find a way to stop you from doing that"​

Tom says "Woah! Why are you resorting to coercion? Are you crazy? What's the matter with you? You're so Angry."​

isn't reasonable.

 

[zincwarrior]

Genetic males should not play on female only teams or leagues. It makes a mockery of Title IX and women's advances for the last 80 years.

Inversely its #2,435 in the priority list of problems in the US.

 

[Mr Person]

I might get yelled at but I tend to DGAF about that.

My views on this don't really line up with the most common on the left. I tend to want to trust the science. To be clear my views are not certain, are unsettled.



Right. What do I mean?

On the first hand, to the extent I've paid attention to the science - and here I have failed in a duty to pay the most attention, which is part of that uncertainty about my view - going through puberty as a male, especially up to the age of 21-25, creates permanent advantages relative to the average female in terms of things like skeletal structure and a whole lot more I can't remember.



On the other hand,

1. M->F transgender people are not lying to take advantage. It is a result of genetics and epigenetics, to the extent we understand it, which we do not fully accomplish. They suffer from gender dysphoria. There is no direct cure. The misery of the condition and hatred they receive skyrockets their chances of depression, anxiety, suicide, and a host of other issues. They did not choose this condition, as you could say a female who relied on steroids chooses.

2. This is the one and only 'born like this' that we use to disqualify anyone from a sport. If there were a rarity of an 8 foot tall male who did not suffer from any physical downsides to this oversized growth, most likely a pituitary issue, and that male could safely perform at max physical capacity required by the NBA, the NBA would not tell him "gee you just can't play, you have this advantage." Nobody told Jordan he can jump too far and high. No one told Eddie Hall that his myostatin-suppressing "hercules gene" means he isn't allowed to do strongman. Etc.

3. Trans people are ****ed in all areas of life. They suffer a condition. It can't be cured. The only decent thing is to let them be how they feel they are and just not ****ing worry about it because why does it bother you, really? Can't they just have this? Do they really have to be excluded from everything?


Back on the first hand,

4. OK, but what about the earlier stuff that people excel in that then trickles into college teams, then professional? That is, once you're talking about the professional league you're talking about people who already proved themselves. But in HS, where being a state champ ups the scholarship likelihood, a M-->F trans person has already gone through part of puberty. They've got a bunch of the male structural advantages. And they're going against girls, who on average are simply nowhere near as physically capable as the average male. But them off, and maybe they don't get that scholarship.



Back on the other hand,

5. OK but media almost only ever focuses on M->F trans people who *WIN*. Have you tried paying attention to those that lose? It's really really really hard to find data because that's just not the way to generate a controversial article. I do remember reading a mini-shitstorm here about some M-->F powerlifter who was allowed to try out for the Olympics. Oh, it's not fair, they're a "he" and "he" is going to kick all those women's asses! Yeah well, she didn't even advance one round in the qualifiers. Bombed right out. Womp-womp. You only heard about it - IF you did - because it was the Olympics.

___________________

I'm generally leaning towards saying they should participate. The one thing I keep cycling through my mind is "Person, you SAID it's not a choice, that it's genetics/epigenetics, so how could you logically distinguish it from simply being born with a natural advantage."

The answer that cycles after is "yes, but if they have the structural advantage of going through puberty as a male, then switching hormones, that increases their odds of having physical advantages above and beyond the percentages of having similar advantages as a bio female." And we do test females for too much test (remember that insulting fiasco with the female runner from somewhere in Africa (my 'Merkan is showing)).

But that answer doesn't seem fair. Yes, going through puberty as a male may increase some things permanently, but they didn't choose to have this ****ing condition. Embracing it is the only way to survive.

 

[j brown's body]

Can you please explain what you mean by that sentence? I'm just not following it. Thanks.

So the NCAA sets up this participation process that allows her to play just like anyone else, and they turn around and tell Congressional leaders that it's optional, allowing her to be demonized when it is they that set up the system that enabled her participate.

 

[post]

Respectfully, this is some strategic gaslighting. It is progressives who are generally on the offensive in the culture war - it is in the very name: they want society to "progress" along their preferred vision.

Putting disagreement about which vision is better for human flourishing aside, it is simply the truth that it was progressives who decided to push this trans stuff.

if

​

A does X​

and

​

B objects to X​

then for

​

A to complain about how OMG B Is So Obsessed With X Why Are They Making This A Deal, They Are Starting This Disagreement​

is way off.


I mean, this:

Tom punches Joe​

Joe says "Why the hell did you punch me? I'm going to find a way to stop you from doing that"​

Tom says "Woah! Why are you resorting to coercion? Are you crazy? What's the matter with you? You're so Angry."​

isn't reasonable.

Equal rights protections are “pushing it”?
There are less than 40 Trans NCAA athletes.
What this is really about is maneuvering the least educated voters into voting in the best interests of the largest donors to the G.O.P. instead of in their own best interests.
The billionaire donors pay Rufo to trigger the herd!

 

[j brown's body]

I might get yelled at but I tend to DGAF about that.

My views on this don't really line up with the most common on the left. I tend to want to trust the science. To be clear my views are not certain, are unsettled.



Right. What do I mean?

On the first hand, to the extent I've paid attention to the science - and here I have failed in a duty to pay the most attention, which is part of that uncertainty about my view - going through puberty as a male, especially up to the age of 21-25, creates permanent advantages relative to the average female in terms of things like skeletal structure and a whole lot more I can't remember.



On the other hand,

1. M->F transgender people are not lying to take advantage. It is a result of genetics and epigenetics, to the extent we understand it, which we do not fully accomplish. They suffer from gender dysphoria. There is no direct cure. The misery of the condition and hatred they receive skyrockets their chances of depression, anxiety, suicide, and a host of other issues. They did not choose this condition, as you could say a female who relied on steroids chooses.

2. This is the one and only 'born like this' that we use to disqualify anyone from a sport. If there were a rarity of an 8 foot tall male who did not suffer from any physical downsides to this oversized growth, most likely a pituitary issue, and that male could safely perform at max physical capacity required by the NBA, the NBA would not tell him "gee you just can't play, you have this advantage." Nobody told Jordan he can jump too far and high. No one told Eddie Hall that his myostatin-suppressing "hercules gene" means he isn't allowed to do strongman. Etc.

3. Trans people are ****ed in all areas of life. They suffer a condition. It can't be cured. The only decent thing is to let them be how they feel they are and just not ****ing worry about it because why does it bother you, really? Can't they just have this? Do they really have to be excluded from everything?


Back on the first hand,

4. OK, but what about the earlier stuff that people excel in that then trickles into college teams, then professional? That is, once you're talking about the professional league you're talking about people who already proved themselves. But in HS, where being a state champ ups the scholarship likelihood, a M-->F trans person has already gone through part of puberty. They've got a bunch of the male structural advantages. And they're going against girls, who on average are simply nowhere near as physically capable as the average male. But them off, and maybe they don't get that scholarship.



Back on the other hand,

5. OK but media almost only ever focuses on M->F trans people who *WIN*. Have you tried paying attention to those that lose? It's really really really hard to find data because that's just not the way to generate a controversial article. I do remember reading a mini-shitstorm here about some M-->F powerlifter who was allowed to try out for the Olympics. Oh, it's not fair, they're a "he" and "he" is going to kick all those women's asses! Yeah well, she didn't even advance one round in the qualifiers. Bombed right out. Womp-womp. You only heard about it - IF you did - because it was the Olympics.

___________________

I'm generally leaning towards saying they should participate. The one thing I keep cycling through my mind is "Person, you SAID it's not a choice, that it's genetics/epigenetics, so how could you logically distinguish it from simply being born with a natural advantage."

The answer that cycles after is "yes, but if they have the structural advantage of going through puberty as a male, then switching hormones, that increases their odds of having physical advantages above and beyond the percentages of having similar advantages as a bio female." And we do test females for too much test (remember that insulting fiasco with the female runner from somewhere in Africa (my 'Merkan is showing)).

It's interesting in that in the conservative media she's portrayed as this powerhouse player, and they're forever quoting those athlete's trying to stop her who say they fear for their safety, and then an opposing team coach says, they've been playing against her for years and she's not even their best player.

And then there is all the power suddenly allied against her that scarcely existed until the right-wing decided this was a thing.

 

[Gardener]

There is only one reason any of you wokesters support this idiocy, and that is because your political ideology is your religion.

It is nothing but a Pavlovian conditioned response. When you support it, all your little fundamentalist peeps reward you with praise for your wokeness. If you say anything else, they tear into you like you all tear into any person with common sense.

As far as I'm concerned, woke should be studies as a form of mass psychosis.

 

[Phys251]

There is only one reason any of you wokesters support this idiocy, and that is because your political ideology is your religion.

It is nothing but a Pavlovian conditioned response. When you support it, all your little fundamentalist peeps reward you with praise for your wokeness. If you say anything else, they tear into you like you all tear into any person with common sense.

As far as I'm concerned, woke should be studies as a form of mass psychosis.

Going for the Projection of the Year award, Gardener? You're doing a fine job making your case!

 

[Gardener]

Going for the Projection of the Year award, Gardener? You're doing a fine job making your case!

You have no actual reason for supporting the misogyny inherent in allowing those who benefit from having a male body taking away opportunities from women.

All you know in this world is that support it you must.

 

[Phys251]

You have no actual reason for supporting the misogyny inherent in allowing those who benefit from having a male body taking away opportunities from women.

All you know in this world is that support it you must.

You ARE going for the Projection of the Year! Keep it up, you just might get that participation trophy you so desperately crave!

 

[j brown's body]

There is only one reason any of you wokesters support this idiocy, and that is because your political ideology is your religion.

It is nothing but a Pavlovian conditioned response. When you support it, all your little fundamentalist peeps reward you with praise for your wokeness. If you say anything else, they tear into you like you all tear into any person with common sense.

As far as I'm concerned, woke should be studies as a form of mass psychosis.

It's only an issue because you all are playing identity politics. Everything was fine until then.

 

[Gardener]

It's only an issue because you all are playing identity politics. Everything was fine until then.

How utterly silly.

I am reacting TO identity politics.

 

[Phys251]

How utterly silly.

I am reacting TO identity politics.

No, YOUR side politicized trans people's genitals. YOUR side is the Genital Obsessed Party.

That's what your side is. Own it.

 

[EU MAGA]

Man, what a sad story for this poor transwoman who meets the requirements to play on this woman's volleyball team, and has for the last two years without comment. And then, gets outed by a former friend.

Its a disgrace.

It is a disgrace. Men competing in women's sports.

 

[Lisa]

There is only one reason any of you wokesters support this idiocy, and that is because your political ideology is your religion.

It is nothing but a Pavlovian conditioned response. When you support it, all your little fundamentalist peeps reward you with praise for your wokeness. If you say anything else, they tear into you like you all tear into any person with common sense.

As far as I'm concerned, woke should be studies as a form of mass psychosis.

This is projection and conspiracy theory thinking.

Are the members of the deep state transgender?

So, who believes these large conspiracy theories, often built on surprising allegations with little evidence behind them? A team of researchers from Emory University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and the University of Regina undertook a colossal effort recently. They grabbed every English-language study ever conducted to look at belief in conspiracy theories and its potential link to personality and motivation in order to conduct a meta-analysis of this data. In total, there were 170 studies involving over 158,000 research participants.


They crunched the numbers to see what was strongly associated with believing conspiracy theories and what wasn’t. Many of their results were to be expected, but some were quite surprising.


Three tendencies were strongly correlated with conspiracy ideation, which is the inclination to endorse conspiracy theories. They were: perceiving threat and danger; relying on intuition and having odd beliefs and experiences; and being antagonistic and feeling superior. You can think of each as a pillar that supports conspiracy ideation and/or is nurtured by it, and each pillar can be looked at in more detail.

Who Is Likely to Believe in Conspiracy Theories?

Pre-pandemic, the question I would most often get was, “How do I know whom to trust when it comes to health and science information?” Over three years after a new virus began sweeping the globe, the question I hear again and again is, “Why is it that my husband/sister/aunt/father believes in all...

www.mcgill.ca

 

[j brown's body]

It is a disgrace. Men competing in women's sports.

It was never a disgrace before, in fact it went quite well. No complaints. For generations. What changed?

 

[j brown's body]

How utterly silly.

I am reacting TO identity politics.

Transgender women have been performing in women's sports for generations without a problem. You create a problem by calling out her identity and sending lobbyists around to oppose her, and you want to blame us? It makes no sense.

 

[Gardener]

No, YOUR side politicized trans people's genitals. YOUR side is the Genital Obsessed Party.

That's what your side is. Own it.

What a simple-minded way to look at the world.

My being rational does not make me part of some "side".

 

[Gardener]

This is projection and conspiracy theory thinking.

Are the members of the deep state transgender?

Who Is Likely to Believe in Conspiracy Theories?

Pre-pandemic, the question I would most often get was, “How do I know whom to trust when it comes to health and science information?” Over three years after a new virus began sweeping the globe, the question I hear again and again is, “Why is it that my husband/sister/aunt/father believes in all...

www.mcgill.ca

What on earth are you going on about, now?

 

[Gardener]

Transgender women have been performing in women's sports for generations without a problem. You create a problem by calling out her identity and sending lobbyists around to oppose her, and you want to blame us? It makes no sense.

You have been reduced to just making shit up.

How pitiful and sad.

 

[Phys251]

What a simple-minded way to look at the world.

My being rational does not make me part of some "side".

This is your side:

 

[Deuce]

Genetic males should not play on female only teams or leagues. It makes a mockery of Title IX and women's advances for the last 80 years.

Inversely its #2,435 in the priority list of problems in the US.

Conservatives never cared about womens' volleyball before and I'm not going to pretend they care about it now. They just want to attack trans people.