A solution to illegal immigration

[rickc]

It isn't just republicans who want cheap, democrats also own businesses to and wish to exploit that dirt cheap labor.. Many states also want illegal immigration because it inflates their population count. Which means more representation with a smaller voting pool when its census time. This is why as citizenship question is a great idea for the census so that only citizens can be used to apportion representation and tax dollars.

I wouldn't say dirt cheap. In fact many times they get paid quite well. Often they get paid piece work. Their production is 3 or 4 times that of American workers. That production rate pays off quite handsomely.

 

[justabubba]

Thank you for a thoughtful reply, too many others on here just whined but offered no solutions.
however, I was struck by your one line :
but not their adult parents. in no way should we reward their illegality.
so if the kids are protected but not the parents, doesn't this cause families to dissolve? and then who looks after the kids? the state?
not criticizing as much as wondering how THIS would work?

when the parents leave they take the kids with them
unless there is someone they can assign their parenting role, who can retain them in the USA (assumes that person is documented/legal)
ditto for the "anchor baby". that child acquired citizenship but his/her parents did not. if they go the child goes unless they find someone who agrees to care for the child citizen. that young person/American citizen can return to the USA upon achieving the age of emancipation (if they did not remain under the care of another adult during their parents' absence)

 

[mrjurrs]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

48 hours in jail for the final decision maker of any business found using workers without documents. Not the hiring manager, not the regional manager, the owner/CEO.

Create a pathway to citizenship for any undocumented worker inside the US. The US needs to population growth and the labor this group provides.

Admit that immigration is a win for America, unless you are a member of America's First Nations, it always has been. Restablish legal immigration services and increase the numbers allowed into America.

 

[justabubba]

It isn't just republicans who want cheap, democrats also own businesses to and wish to exploit that dirt cheap labor..

wasn't there a clinton (judicial?) nominee who had to pass on the appointment because she hired an undocumented person as a housekeeper/nanny?
the point is, employeers from both sides of the aisle enjoy cheap labor, because the (undocumented/illegal) supply exceeds demand and diminishes the price of labor

Many states also want illegal immigration because it inflates their population count. Which means more representation with a smaller voting pool when its census time. This is why as citizenship question is a great idea for the census so that only citizens can be used to apportion representation and tax dollars.

i believe this is a Constitutional issue as the text for the census speaks to persons and not citizens

 

[rickc]

It has been this way a.long time. What makes you think anyone in power wants to change it?

Fact is America needs that labor. The only difference between the two parties is how they want to treat them.

Republicans want that labor kept illegal. Easier to control. Cost are reduced for business. No benefits. No real future. Can be deported at any time.

Democrats want to treat them like human beings. A path to citizenship. Hope for their children and their children's children.

 

[Overitall]

Look have you ever filled out an I-9? That is the employer's out. With a properly filled out I-9 on file for ICE to examine it doesn't matter if your worker is of illegal status. You are home free. You are not required to confirm anything.

Google how to fill out an I-9 and learn something.

Now if you are doing state work in some states or federal work you may be required to verify employee with e-verify. If so they will have to be legal.

Have you ever heard of food inspectors? They typically inspect the premises of your food business to confirm compliance with laws. Granted, the service is stretched thin but I’m pretty sure simply showing them a compliance form won’t be enough. A visual inspection is necessary.

When it comes to worker verification, surprise visits to the establishment may be necessary where the agents ask for required documentation of the workers on site. The point is is that enforcement of the law is needed to the point that employers are more likely not to take a chance on breaking the law. It would require resources but it is doable.

 

[jamesrage]

wasn't there a clinton (judicial?) nominee who had to pass on the appointment because she hired an undocumented person as a housekeeper/nanny?
the point is, employeers from both sides of the aisle enjoy cheap labor, because the (undocumented/illegal) supply exceeds demand and diminishes the price of labor

i believe this is a Constitutional issue as the text for the census speaks to persons and not citizens

There is nothing that says you can't make a distinction between citizens and non-citizens when taking the consensus.

 

[jamesrage]

I wouldn't say dirt cheap. In fact many times they get paid quite well. Often they get paid piece work. Their production is 3 or 4 times that of American workers. That production rate pays off quite handsomely.

Compared to what it would take to get American to do the same job yeah its dirt cheap.

 

[Integrityrespec]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

First of all I agree with some of your points, no solution by anybody because of politics in particular. The wall did slow both illegal immigration and illegal drugs, it's a fact. Look at the current numbers of both compared to under trumps policies. It's out of control and at record amounts of both illegals, unaccompanied minors, drugs entering the country. The walls, the new walls were not nearly as easy to climb as the old walls and nothing is as easy as an open border policy.
Both parties are afraid to fix the problem for different reasons. Democrats like the open question so they can claim they are going to support open immigration and open borders and accuse the republicans of racism. Republicans are afraid of the issue because they know that stopping the flood of illegal immigration will likely hurt them some at the poles.
We have laws that would aid in stopping the current problem but Biden is doing what Obama did, ignore the immigration laws.

 

[rickc]

Have you ever heard of food inspectors? They typically inspect the premises of your food business to confirm compliance with laws. Granted, the service is stretched thin but I’m pretty sure simply showing them a compliance form won’t be enough. A visual inspection is necessary.

When it comes to worker verification, surprise visits to the establishment may be necessary where the agents ask for required documentation of the workers on site. The point is is that enforcement of the law is needed to the point that employers are more likely not to take a chance on breaking the law. It would require resources but it is doable.

Occasionally ICE does visit businesses like meat packing plants. The may round up 100 illegal workers bit if the business has properly filled out I-9's on these illegal workers then they are in the clear. It is so easy for businesses to hire illegals legally that ICE really doesn't waste a lot of time checking their books.

 

[Overitall]

Occasionally ICE does visit businesses like meat packing plants. The may round up 100 illegal workers bit if the business has properly filled out I-9's on these illegal workers then they are in the clear. It is so easy for businesses to hire illegals legally that ICE really doesn't waste a lot of time checking their books.

Then there needs to be reforms to make it more difficult. We can suggest solutions to the problem but it’s up to our representatives to actually change things. This thread, afaik, is all about suggested solutions.

 

[rickc]

Have you ever heard of food inspectors? They typically inspect the premises of your food business to confirm compliance with laws. Granted, the service is stretched thin but I’m pretty sure simply showing them a compliance form won’t be enough. A visual inspection is necessary.

When it comes to worker verification, surprise visits to the establishment may be necessary where the agents ask for required documentation of the workers on site. The point is is that enforcement of the law is needed to the point that employers are more likely not to take a chance on breaking the law. It would require resources but it is doable.

Occasionally ICE does visit businesses like meat packing plants. They may round up 100 illegal workers but if the business has properly filled out I-9's on these illegal workers then they are in the clear. It is so easy for businesses to hire illegals legally that ICE really doesn't waste a lot of time checking their books.

 

[rickc]

Then there needs to be reforms to make it more difficult. We can suggest solutions to the problem but it’s up to our representatives to actually change things. This thread, afaik, is all about suggested solutions.

Everybody knows the solution. Mandatory E-Verify substantial fines for hiring illegals. When IRS gets w-2's or 1099's with bad SS numbers it's reported and the.employer fined

Make it more expensive to hire illegals and it will stop.

But it will never happen. Republican donors want that cheap labor. We need that labor. Congress will never vote to make E-Verify Mandatory

 

[Overitall]

Everybody knows the solution. Mandatory E-Verify substantial fines for hiring illegals. When IRS gets w-2's or 1099's with bad SS numbers it's reported and the.employer fined

Make it more expensive to hire illegals and it will stop.

But it will never happen. Republican donors want that cheap labor. We need that labor. Congress will never vote to make E-Verify Mandatory

They will if we demand it. It’s not so much their lack but our indifference.

 

[calamity]

It isn't just republicans who want cheap, democrats also own businesses to and wish to exploit that dirt cheap labor.. Many states also want illegal immigration because it inflates their population count. Which means more representation with a smaller voting pool when its census time. This is why as citizenship question is a great idea for the census so that only citizens can be used to apportion representation and tax dollars.

I believe the reality is actually quite clear. Without illegals, the heads of lettuce simply won't get picked, the chickens won't get cut up and the hotel rooms will not be cleaned.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

First of all I agree with some of your points, no solution by anybody because of politics in particular. The wall did slow both illegal immigration and illegal drugs, it's a fact. Look at the current numbers of both compared to under trumps policies. It's out of control and at record amounts of both illegals, unaccompanied minors, drugs entering the country. The walls, the new walls were not nearly as easy to climb as the old walls and nothing is as easy as an open border policy.
Both parties are afraid to fix the problem for different reasons. Democrats like the open question so they can claim they are going to support open immigration and open borders and accuse the republicans of racism. Republicans are afraid of the issue because they know that stopping the flood of illegal immigration will likely hurt them some at the poles.
We have laws that would aid in stopping the current problem but Biden is doing what Obama did, ignore the immigration laws.

NOPE, Obama deported more illegals than any other President, don't believe me, Google it, it is a fact.

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

Trump may be getting closer to Obama's recent policy.

abcnews.go.com

Biden isn't ignoring the issue, that is something Fox and the like are tossing out there:

7 right-wing myths and lies about immigration that need to end

From claims that terrorists are invading via Mexico to lies about migrants bringing Covid-19.

www.msnbc.com

and before you rebut, read every word in the link, it might illuminate you.

Granted Biden could do better, but Trump did NOT slow down illegal immigration, he only slowed down LEGAL immigration:

President Trump Reduced Legal Immigration. He Did Not Reduce Illegal Immigration​

President Trump Reduced Legal Immigration. He Did Not Reduce Illegal Immigration

The population of illegal immigrants remained about the same as when he took office.

www.cato.org

The problem with armchair critics has always been, they have their favorite "information" sites, but when the sites they follow just use clickbait and not actual facts, it leads people to believe what they have been told without actually investigating if what they have been told is bogus.

 

[justabubba]

I believe the reality is actually quite clear. Without illegals, the heads of lettuce simply won't get picked.

sure they would
only they would cost more because growers would have to pay more get them harvested

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

sure they would
only they would cost more because growers would have to pay more get them harvested

HENCE, a big backlash from consumers.

 

[rickc]

They will if we demand it. It’s not so much their lack but our indifference.

No! republicans will continue their campaign rhetoric about the illegal immigrants are taking those working class white men's jobs. That just rakes in the votes.

But they will never actually do anything about it.

Same thing every election cycle.

 

[trouble13]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

Send them all to Canada where systematic racism does not exist.

 

[calamity]

...America needs that labor. The only difference between the two parties is how they want to treat them.

Republicans want that labor kept illegal. Easier to control. Cost are reduced for business. No benefits. No real future. Can be deported at any time.

Democrats want to treat them like human beings. A path to citizenship. Hope for their children and their children's children.

Yes, this is my take. For sure.

 

[justabubba]

HENCE, a big backlash from consumers.

going to riot because the price of a head of lettuce increased?
i don't think so
maybe they substitute other greens that have not yet been impacted by the cheap labor shortage
or consumers/public substitute other food to replace the lettuce
given the wide availability of options and that lettuce is not a critical need, the gnashing of teeth would be just another pointless first world problem

 

[Overitall]

No! republicans will continue their campaign rhetoric about the illegal immigrants are taking those working class white men's jobs. That just rakes in the votes.

But they will never actually do anything about it.

Same thing every election cycle.

First you say that “Congress will never . . . .” and yet here you seem to wish to blame the Republicans for things not changing. The last time I checked Democrats have control. They were able to pass Obama-care without Republican support. Are you suggesting they can’t get this done just as well?

 

[notquiteright]

Isn't it Ironic that we didn't have an illegal alien PROBLEM until our welfare system came to be?

Isn't it ironic so many 'real' Americans don't know their own history? Long before 'leftie' welfare (1950's) there was an 'Operation Wetback' that rounded up an estimated 1 million people and dumped them into Mexico with little if any possessions. Seems to some 'real' Americans the problem was real long before the Welfare system so lamented by the rabid right was a reality.

Ok, it's not ironic, it is truly tragic so many Americans just make crap up to try and tie all their dead horses together for easier beating...

 

[rickc]

First you say that “Congress will never . . . .” and yet here you seem to wish to blame the Republicans for things not changing. The last time I checked Democrats have control. They were able to pass Obama-care without Republican support. Are you suggesting they can’t get this done just as well?

Funny man

Actually Joe Manchin and Mitch McConnell are in control of congress not the Democrats.

Sure Joe Biden has an immigration plan. I don't think it includes Everify though. Anyway it's not going anywhere

Just like the infrastructure plan or the tax plan or H-1 voter rights plan or gun control

Biden's agenda is dead in the water