A solution to illegal immigration

[SNOWFLAKE]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

 

[Luther]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans,

Well for people like me that know HIGH IMMIGRATION is a nation killer it is a "Big scary MONSTER"

 

[Luther]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Isn't it Ironic that we didn't have an illegal alien PROBLEM until our welfare system came to be?

 

[bluesmoke]

I don't see where the "failure" has any consequence not overcome by net positive of being provided affordable labor supply for the economy to grow and no net economic negative ever proven. Inhibiting immigration going forward into a declining pop is bad policy as we won't have the labor to support growth. I doubt that anytime soon NT can make up for any significant decline in immigration.

 

[Overitall]

Not a complete solution but putting more money and manpower into enforcing the existing laws on hiring illegal immigrants might be a good start.

When Breaking the Law by Hiring Illegal Aliens Doesn't Pay | FAIRUS.org

The biggest incentive for illegal aliens to come to the United States is to find work. If there are no employers willing to hire the illegal aliens, then the flood of illegal aliens will subside. The Immigration and Reform Act of 1986 outlawed hiring illegal alien workers, although common...

www.fairus.org

Add to that a stronger deportation enforcement. A lot of money is (was) being spent on walls which obviously is limited in illegal immigrants coming here. As long as they have an incentive to come they will come. Take away the incentive.

 

[j brown's body]

Well for people like me that know HIGH IMMIGRATION is a nation killer it is a "Big scary MONSTER"

Yet a look at our own history shows this idea to be utterly absurd.

 

[Luther]

Yet a look at our own history shows this idea to be utterly absurd.

Tell us about it?

I have been studying immigration going on 19 years

 

[j brown's body]

Isn't it Ironic that we didn't have an illegal alien PROBLEM until our welfare system came to be?

Nativists have complained about the PROBLEM for centuries. And undocumented immigrants can't collect welfare.

 

[j brown's body]

Tell us about it?

I have been studying immigration going on 19 years

At the beginning of the 20th century, the country was flooded with immigrants, and our nation was not killed.

Today we have over 10 million undocumented immigrants and our nation has not been killed.

Indeed, we are a nation of immigrants.

Where did you get such an absurd theory?

 

[Luther]

Nativists have complained about the PROBLEM for centuries. And undocumented immigrants can't collect welfare.

I didn't say that

Since you bought it up they actually can if they have an Anchor baby?

Last I heard a 3 year old isn't in charge of the homes finances(wink)

 

[rickc]

Now I want you to think a little.

Separate the rhetoric from what our politicians actually do.

Why has our government always made it quite easy for American businesses to hire illegal workers legally?

Why is there not a hue and cry about American businesses hiring illegal workers?

Everyone knows the businesses hiring the illegals. Why is there so little enforcement of our laws?

The right demonized these illegal immigrants but they always avoid talking about those that come here for jobs. The rhetoric is always about the criminals, drug smugglers and those who want to take advantage of our welfare system. This is just rhetoric to garner the redneck vote.

 

[ataraxia]

Well for people like me that know HIGH IMMIGRATION is a nation killer it is a "Big scary MONSTER"

Nah, if you have been studying this issue, you would know that nativists have been complaining about this problem for the whole history of our nation.

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion….Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation…and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain…Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it…I remember when they modestly declined intermeddling in our Elections, but now they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two Counties...In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious."
-Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, on German immigration to Pennsylvania, 1750s

I do not like the late Reappearance of the Jesuits. They have a General, now in Russia, in correspondence with the Jesuits in the U.S. who are more numerous than every body knows. Shall We not have Swarms of them here. In as many shapes and disguises as ever a King of Gypsies, Bamfield More Carew himself, assumed? In the shape of Printers, Editors, Writers School masters etc. If ever any Congregation of Men could merit, eternal Perdition on Earth and in Hell, it is this Company of Loiola [Ignatius Loyola -- Ed.]. Our System however of Religious Liberty must afford them an Assylum. But if they do not put the Purity of our Elections to a severe Tryal, it will be a Wonder."
-John Adams

"We should build a wall of brass around the country."
- John Jay, first chief justice of Supreme always Court, regarding “Catholic alien invaders,” 1750s

"What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?"
- Lyman Beecher, Leader of the Second Great Awakening, on English immigrants, 1834

"The enormous influx of alien foreigners will in the end prove ruinous to American workingmen, by REDUCING THE WAGES OF LABOR to a standard that will drive them from the farms and workshops altogether."
- Opinion article in the Philadelphia Sun, 1854

"Standing behind them are Christian employers of this land, who would rather import heathen willing to work for barely enough to sustain life than retain a brother Christian at a wage sufficient to live as becomes a Christian. We do not want Opium or the Chinese who grow it."
- Terence Powderly, Irish-American labor leader, 1892

(cont'd next post)

 

[jamesrage]

We "get" that illegal immigration is a big scary monster for many Americans, probably the same ones who enjoy having their toilets cleaned and their fruits picked.

We also "get" that there are legitimate refugees and those just wanting a better life so are prone to fake it.

BUT, what most Americans don't "get" is this border issue is actually a bipartisan failure.

Presidents from both parties, stymied by partisan politics from the opposition, have failed to come up with a Comprehensive Immigration bill that will suit both sides.

Trump wanted to put a bandage on the problem, Biden doesn't know what he wants to do, Obama (surprise surprise) became known as Deporter In Chief, and every president in my lifetime has failed to fix the problem.

Now for all of YOU out there that keep crying about open borders and that the WALL was the solution (how easy they have been proven to climb over), how about instead of crying, suggesting REAL solutions.

Not Trump was good, Biden is bad, or Biden is good, Trump is Bad, or it is all Republicans fault or all Democrats fault. Instead of slagging, anyone have a REAL solution?

ANYONE?

1. Cut off visas to problem countries. Illegal alien testicle lickers love to tell us that properly walls/barriers are ineffective (even though they are effective around prisons, the capital building and other places) and that most illegal immigrants come through legally on visas and overstay those visas. Set up a return quota based on the number of visas we issue to citizens of countries verses how many of those citizens return back to those countries. So if hypothetically we issue 1000 visas to a country and only two hundred of those citizens return back to their country then the next year we issue only two hundred visas and the following years that number can increase or decrease based on how many return back to their countries. The idea that we keep issuing visas to citizens of countries when most of their citizens don't return home is idiotic.


2. If you get caught hiring illegal alien then we throw you in jail, seize your assets just like if you were a drug dealer or some other criminal who profited from illegal activities.And revoke your business permits/licensees. Unless they can prove that they used E-verify and other means to show that they did their part to try verify that the person they hired was legal. Fines aren't working. And why would they work when someone is literally saving money by hiring people for substandard wages.

3. Make it so no one can benifit by being in the country illegally. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-
-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies. Yeah I know Trump's wife used it to get her parents in, I don't care.

 

[Luther]

Nah, if you have been studying this issue, you would know that nativists have been complaining about this problem for the whole history of our nation.

But there's so many holes to fill in your story

I got the Shovel ready

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Well for people like me that know HIGH IMMIGRATION is a nation killer it is a "Big scary MONSTER"

Thanks for offering solutions.

 

[ataraxia]

(cont'd from previous post)


"We demand the change of the national naturalization laws by the repeal of the act authorizing the naturalization of minors…We demand for the protection of our citizen laborers, the prohibition of the importation of pauper labor, and the restriction of immigration…We protest against the gross negligence and laxity with which the Judiciary of our land administer the present naturalization laws, and against the practice of naturalizing aliens."
- statement of principles of the American Protective Association, 1894

Not a day passes but families are ruthlessly turned out to make room for foreign invaders. The rates are burdened with the education of thousands of foreign children.
- William Evans Gordon, British nativist, 1905

The people of this country are too tolerant. There’s no other country in the world where they’d allow it... After all we built up this country and then we allow a lot of foreigners, the scum of Europe, the offscourings of Polish ghettos to come and run it for us.
– John Dos Passos, early 20th century novelist, on U.S. immigration policy

They are coming in such numbers and we are unable adequately to take care of them…It simply amounts to unrestricted and indiscriminate dumping into this country of people of every character and description…If there were in existence a ship that could hold three million human beings, then three million Jews of Poland would board to escape to America.
-Congressional hearing, 1920

Now, what do we find in all our large cities? Entire sections containing a population incapable of understanding our institutions, with no comprehension of our national ideals, and for the most part incapable of speaking the English language. Foreign language information service gives evidence that many southern Europeans resent as an unjust discrimination the quota laws and represent America as showing race hatred and unmindful of its mission to the world. The reverse is true. America’s first duty is to those already within her own shores.
- Representative Grant Hudson, 1924

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Isn't it Ironic that we didn't have an illegal alien PROBLEM until our welfare system came to be?

I asked for solutions instead of crying about the problem, instead I got crying about the problem. Thanks for helping out here.

 

[Luther]

Thanks for offering solutions.

You would just poo poo my solutions?

Hell, You're not even an American?

 

[ataraxia]

But there's so many holes to fill in your story

I got the Shovel ready

Does all this sound familiar?

"We should build a wall of brass around the country."
- John Jay, first chief justice of Supreme always Court, regarding “Catholic alien invaders"

"What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?"
- Lyman Beecher, Leader of the Second Great Awakening, on English immigrants, 1834

"The enormous influx of alien foreigners will in the end prove ruinous to American workingmen, by REDUCING THE WAGES OF LABOR to a standard that will drive them from the farms and workshops altogether."
- Opinion article in the Philadelphia Sun, 1854

"Standing behind them are Christian employers of this land, who would rather import heathen willing to work for barely enough to sustain life than retain a brother Christian at a wage sufficient to live as becomes a Christian. We do not want Opium or the Chinese who grow it."
- Terence Powderly, Irish-American labor leader, 1892

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Not a complete solution but putting more money and manpower into enforcing the existing laws on hiring illegal immigrants might be a good start.

When Breaking the Law by Hiring Illegal Aliens Doesn't Pay | FAIRUS.org

The biggest incentive for illegal aliens to come to the United States is to find work. If there are no employers willing to hire the illegal aliens, then the flood of illegal aliens will subside. The Immigration and Reform Act of 1986 outlawed hiring illegal alien workers, although common...

www.fairus.org

Add to that a stronger deportation enforcement. A lot of money is (was) being spent on walls which obviously is limited in illegal immigrants coming here. As long as they have an incentive to come they will come. Take away the incentive.

I have heard of this "solution" before, but everyone does it, especially the rich and powerful, even Trump hired illegals. Would the solution then be to jail everyone who hires an illegal?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Now I want you to think a little.

Separate the rhetoric from what our politicians actually do.

Why has our government always made it quite easy for American businesses to hire illegal workers legally?

Why is there not a hue and cry about American businesses hiring illegal workers?

Everyone knows the businesses hiring the illegals. Why is there so little enforcement of our laws?

The right demonized these illegal immigrants but they always avoid talking about those that come here for jobs. The rhetoric is always about the criminals, drug smugglers and those who want to take advantage of our welfare system. This is just rhetoric to garner the redneck vote.

Yep, the relatively easy solution would be to require eVerify coupled with a change to the federal income tax code. Employers (aka job creators) must supply IRS a per employee (W-2 and/or 1099) direct labor cost (deduction) breakdown including that employee’s name, address and SSN/ITIN. IRS would then use the eVerify database to prevent the employer from deducting any “undocumented” direct labor costs.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Tell us about it?

I have been studying immigration going on 19 years

if so, you seem to be short on solutions.

 

[Luther]

Does all this sound familiar?

"We should build a wall of brass around the country."
- John Jay, first chief justice of Supreme always Court, regarding “Catholic alien invaders"

"What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?"
- Lyman Beecher, Leader of the Second Great Awakening, on English immigrants, 1834

"The enormous influx of alien foreigners will in the end prove ruinous to American workingmen, by REDUCING THE WAGES OF LABOR to a standard that will drive them from the farms and workshops altogether."
- Opinion article in the Philadelphia Sun, 1854

"Standing behind them are Christian employers of this land, who would rather import heathen willing to work for barely enough to sustain life than retain a brother Christian at a wage sufficient to live as becomes a Christian. We do not want Opium or the Chinese who grow it."
- Terence Powderly, Irish-American labor leader, 1892

What does this have to do with the Millions of ILLEGAL INVADERS of today?

 

[ataraxia]

What does this have to do with the Millions of ILLEGAL INVADERS of today?

What law were all those other immigrants following? None. They would just show up.

 

[Luther]

if so, you seem to be short on solutions.

Dude, evidently you haven't read my thousands of post on this Forum and other forums(wink)