A question on labor day. Why does the political left glorify labor and demonize capital?

[aociswundumho]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:

Work alone can create new work; money cannot create work. Work alone can create values, values with which to reward those who work. The work of one man makes it possible for another to live and continue to work. And when we have mobilized the working capacity of our people to its utmost, each individual worker will receive more and more of the world's goods.

If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.

I wish to put before you a few basic facts: The first is that in the capitalistic world the most important principle of economy is that the people exist for trade and industry, and that these in turn exist for capital. We have reversed this principle by making capital exist for trade and industry, and trade and industry exist for the people. In other words, the people come first.

The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

 

[BitterPill]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.



The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

Might be because it's called Labor Day.

Perhaps we should change it to Capital Day, and Trump can do so with the stroke of a pen.

MAGA.

 

[Michael Cole]

It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. The dichotomy of business/labor has been divided along party and ideological lines for a long time.

The left supports labor. The right supports business. That's the traditional situation, but it's not as clear today.

Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.

That's not my take. The point is that wealth is created with labor. All the capital in the world is worthless without some human input.

The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

That quote is gobbledygook. I won't even attempt to respond to your comment.

People exist. We trade with each other. That we also organize ourselves into financial entities doesn't change this.

I have no idea why the far-left hates billionaires, but the Democrats have historically been champions of the worker. Trump has his base convinced that the GOP is now the party of the common man. Suckers.

 

[phoenix2020]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.



The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

Any chance that you can make a better attempt to own the leftist filth? It’s Labor Day and your fellow soldiers were pinning their hopes on you to better own the leftist filth, but the best you were able to come up with was the above mess. I don’t see how you’re going to win the respect of Trump’s children if you cannot demonstrate that you can properly own the left.

 

[BitterPill]

Any chance that you can make a better attempt to own the leftist filth? It’s Labor Day and your fellow soldiers were pinning their hopes on you to better own the leftist filth, but the best you were able to come up with was the above mess. I don’t see how you’re going to win the respect of Trump’s children if you cannot demonstrate that you can properly own the left.

It is official: aociswundumho owns another liberal.

Brilliant move, aoc, brilliant!

MAGA.

 

[The Brad Dad]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.



The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

So what do you. make of American conservatives support of Trump's state capitalism push?

 

[Tigerace117]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.



The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

Gee, I wonder why the left would have an issue with America’s oligarchs.

*looks at the vicious repression of the Gilded Age*

 

[Slartibartfast]

It makes no sense. Consider this typical "pro-worker" quote:



If raw labor were all that mattered, the hardest-working societies would be the richest. They're not. What actually drives prosperity is the combination of capital, innovation, and free trade. Money and capital do create work by funding tools and factories, and startups. A farmers labor feeds his family, but it's the tractor bought with capital that feeds a city. Note also that the more labor we can replace with machines, the richer and better off we become.



The bold gets it completely backwards. People don't exist to serve trade and industry - trade and industry exist to serve people. And the proof is plain: in capitalist societies, ordinary people are both the richest and the freest. Socialists can only spout empty platitudes, but when it comes to results, capitalists win every time.

Because people want their lives to be more than just economics and therefore want to have a society that makes them more than just a wage slave so they have rook to focus on other parts of society and their lives. If they have to force the situation to be a form of capitalism that isn’t in some text book so be it.

 

[aociswundumho]

*looks at the vicious repression of the Gilded Age*

The guilded age was a great time for America. Huge increase in living standards and wages. I'll be starting a thread on it soon.

 

[Gardener]

It is only lip service.

They say they are for the little guy, but during covid they were the chief instruments for diverting wealth away from the middle class and on to the gazillionair technocrats. People should pay attention to who made bank during covid and who lost their shirt.

 

[aociswundumho]

So what do you. make of American conservatives support of Trump's state capitalism push?

It's terrible, and it's partial nationalization, not "state capitalism" which is incoherent nonsense.

 

[Tigerace117]

The guilded age was a great time for America. Huge increase in living standards and wages. I'll be starting a thread on it soon.

It really, really wasn’t, which is why nobody with a brain wants to go back to it.

As it turns out, businesses sending death squads after people for daring to demand basic human rights doesn’t actually help a country. Who knew?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

A question on Labor Day:

Why are there such simple-minded folks in the world who actually believe that the political left demonizes capital?

Strange how leftist countries like Canada, most of Europe, places like S Korea, Japan, Australia, have governments left of the US, and yet............... they have capitalism in ALL of those countries.

So again the question I would ask on Labor Day is how there could be people out there in the world who can ask such inane questions and make such inane assumptions about "leftists", and being one myself, I have never known one that was demonizing capital.

JAYSUS!!

 

[Lycanthrope]

If only someone was out there showing appreciation for the monied elites.

Maybe by, I don't know, gutting social services and healthcare for the so-called "working" class, and giving the wealthy a tiny trillion dollar tax cut? It's not much but it's the least we can do for them.

 

[The Brad Dad]

It's terrible, and it's partial nationalization, not "state capitalism" which is incoherent nonsense.

Kinda weird that all of our communism is coming from the right.

 

[bomberfox]

Because class conflict comes with the territory of capitalism. What matters if you believe such conflicts can be resolved within capitalism.

The capitalist desires to pay workers less and have workers work longer hours. the worker has opposite interests, they want to be paid more and work less. This is an example of class antagonisms.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

If only someone was out there showing appreciation for the monied elites.

Maybe by, I don't know, gutting social services and healthcare for the so-called "working" class, and giving the wealthy a tiny trillion dollar tax cut? It's not much but it's the least we can do for them.

The entire thread is bonkers. The left demonizing capital. Such horsesh*t.

Sure, the left wants workers properly compensated for their work and make sure they get the benefits they deserve. That doesn't mean they demonize capital. The inanity of such statements is incredible.

 

[phoenix2020]

A question on Labor Day:

Why are there such simple-minded folks in the world who actually believe that the political left demonizes capital?

Strange how leftist countries like Canada, most of Europe, places like S Korea, Japan, Australia, have governments left of the US, and yet............... they have capitalism in ALL of those countries.

So again the question I would ask on Labor Day is how there could be people out there in the world who can ask such inane questions and make such inane assumptions about "leftists", and being one myself, I have never known one that was demonizing capital.

JAYSUS!!

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This is a terrific question. I hope that on this Labor Day we can have someone (let’s describe said person as sumdumho) explain to us the importance of capital while demonizing the leftist filth. If they do a good job, perhaps they can attract the attention of Eric or Don Jr.

 

[bomberfox]

In a marxist sense, demonization or morality doesnt really come into the picture. It is an economic critique.

 

[Lycanthrope]

The entire thread is bonkers. The left demonizing capital. Such horsesh*t.

Sure, the left wants workers properly compensated for their work and make sure they get the benefits they deserve. That doesn't mean they demonize capital. The inanity of such statements is incredible.

This is the narrative MAGAs are indoctrinated with by their POTUS and their media. Any critique of Taco, capitalism, the monied elites, and/or America itself is clearly the product of demonic marxism/socialism/communism because clearly capitalism and America and Taco have objectively been nothing but a force for good in the world.

The OP is a good example of how effective that right wing indoctrination has been.

 

[aociswundumho]

As it turns out, businesses sending death squads after people for daring to demand basic human rights doesn’t actually help a country. Who knew?

There's no "human right" to cartelize the labor supply of a private business.

 

[Tigerace117]

There's no "human right" to cartelize the labor supply of a private business.

Treating people as slave labor and sending in death squads when they organize to oppose it speaks volumes.

 

[aociswundumho]

Treating people as slave labor

Then quit.

and sending in death squads when they organize to oppose it speaks volumes.

Private security is needed when the former workers won't get off the property and physically attack other workers. The violence is always initiated by the unions.

 

[BirdinHand]

Because no one ever laid on their death bed and said “I wish I had worked more”



There is a lot more to life and living than amassing capital. And a lot more to life than laboring.

And people like to enjoy their lives, believe it or not

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Then quit.



Private security is needed when the former workers won't get off the property and physically attack other workers. The violence is always initiated by the unions.

Property is violence.