A question for Trump wall supporters

[Xyce]

That's why we have the 2nd Amendment. To take our country back from tyranny.

I agree.

This topic is a total fail. Very intellectually shallow. It was not complex enough to box us into a corner, forcing us to discover our collective repressed cognitive dissonance when it came to building the wall.

Can I get someone on the other side to actually make a smart topic to actually challenge those who support the wall? Please?

 

[VanceMack]

We already have walls in strategic locations. I don't have a problem with walls in strategic locations. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. That's not what Trump has promised.

In this video, a helicopter travels over the entire border. It took 10 days, but you really get a sense of the absurdity of what Trump is talking about. There are enormous rivers and mountains along the way. It's just ridiculous.

Thousands of people died trying to cross these deserts. What makes anyone think a simple wall would stop them?

So you ARE a fan of a walls...and understand we NEED walls...and you support walls....just so long as they arent used enough to be effective in stopping illegal immigration.

I get you...completely. You are expressing your hypocrisy loud and clear.

 

[Xyce]

See ya then, my new friend.
You will find I behave the same way in real life as i do here, except I am not as quite as good looking as in my profile picture.
...but my wife just rolls her eyes at it.

View attachment 67247531

:lamo

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

According to open border advocates and other pro-illegal immigration scum a border wall is useless and will not stop illegal immigration. So using that logic how will it stop someone from fleeing then?

You might want to look at old historic footage of the Berlin Wall. It wasn't the wall that stopped anybody, it was East German machine guns. Are you proposing we turn our border with Mexico into East Germany?

Well, maybe we just might, but one thing's for sure, those machine gun toting Border Patrol and DHS guys who have to shoot all those Mexicans, a lot of them might have dark skin, and ALL of them are gonna want a WHOLE lot more money.
And I suspect the churn rate is gonna be pretty high.

And then there's that little problem that might crop up after a while, that little thing about nobody wanting to continue the endless slaughter. Now, you have a very interesting handle. Maybe you should apply, to soothe all that "rage".

My guess is, you'll be horking up your breakfast Kool-Aid and Hot Pockets after your first kill.

 

[Xyce]

You might want to look at old historic footage of the Berlin Wall. It wasn't the wall that stopped anybody, it was East German machine guns. Are you proposing we turn our border with Mexico into East Germany?

Well, maybe we just might, but one thing's for sure, those machine gun toting Border Patrol and DHS guys who have to shoot all those Mexicans, a lot of them might have dark skin, and ALL of them are gonna want a WHOLE lot more money.
And I suspect the churn rate is gonna be pretty high.

And then there's that little problem that might crop up after a while, that little thing about nobody wanting to continue the endless slaughter. Now, you have a very interesting handle. Maybe you should apply, to soothe all that "rage".

My guess is, you'll be horking up your breakfast Kool-Aid and Hot Pockets after your first kill.

Are you comparing a wall across the border to be morally the same as the Berlin Wall?

If you're just bringing up the Berlin Wall to talk about the logistics it took to stop people from climbing over, are you suggesting that shooting people that try to go over the wall is the only way to stop people from going over the wall? Maybe a 50-foot wall would do the trick. And for those that climb over, prison sentences.

Also, you did not refute his point. You quoted him, and then started talking about something else.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Imagine the U.S. was taken over by radical Stalinists. Life is so miserable that you desperately want to move to a more free country but emigration is banned. Canada is just as bad. Your best hope is to escape through Mexico.

There's just one problem. Mexico has built a wall.

Would you give up your plans to escape because of the wall Mexico built? Would a wall discourage the kind of person so motivated that they would travel 1,000 miles on foot across territory controlled by drug cartels who are likely to rape or murder them?

I'm looking for honest rational answers.

No, I'd go down to Alvarado Street with five hundred bucks and get a brand new identity, a foreign national, something with an appropriately Russian sounding name, and I'd hop the next flight out. Or are you proposing that all international flights will also be grounded, too?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Are you comparing a wall across the border to be morally the same as the Berlin Wall?

I don't know, are you suggesting that we need something like the Berlin Wall? Because the wall itself won't stop anybody if they're motivated enough. Forget the morals for a moment and tell me how the wall stops anyone without machine guns to pick them off.

We can argue the morals later, my first question has to do with machine guns. That's what stops motivated people from jumping over.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

So you ARE a fan of a walls...and understand we NEED walls...and you support walls....just so long as they arent used enough to be effective in stopping illegal immigration.

I get you...completely. You are expressing your hypocrisy loud and clear.

You're expressing your stupidity loud and clear.

Trump's idiotic proposal was to build A WALL. A WALL with "a big beautiful door." A massive 30-foot high concrete wall across the 2,000 mile border. Oh, and Mexico was going to pay for it? Who is going to pay for it? Mexico! That's Trump's proposal.

That's not some strategic walls here and there. Stop trying to move the goal post.

The reason that I'm in favor of some wall in strategic locations just as the border guards you quoted, is that a wall ONLY makes sense in certain strategic locations where there are plenty of guards already.

A wall across a giant desert makes no sense.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am no Trump supporter. If its rational for a open border and illegal immigration advocate to tell us that a border wall is useless and won't stop illegal immigration. Then it is just as rational for me to ask how this wall that you people say is useless will stop us from fleeing.

You're functioning under the straw man that claims liberals want open borders.
I found TWO, out of the entire population of DP, who said that they support open borders.
Everyone else who responded to that earlier thread where I asked for a show of hands agreed that some form of border control was absolutely necessary, myself included.
So go round up those two, and maybe any other open border advocates, and have your straw man debate with them.

The rest of us don't want "open borders", we just think Trump's wall is a boondoggle,
and we might just be in very good company, too.

Personally, I also am convinced that Trump's border wall AND his shutdown are great big shiny things being dangled to distract people from the object in the mirror.

 

[Xyce]

I don't know, are you suggesting that we need something like the Berlin Wall? Because the wall itself won't stop anybody if they're motivated enough. Forget the morals for a moment and tell me how the wall stops anyone without machine guns to pick them off.

We can argue the morals later, my first question has to do with machine guns. That's what stops motivated people from jumping over.

I'll say this, if a person can literally jump over the 50-foot wall, they automatically should be granted citizenship, along with a book deal and a documentary about their life. Also, they should be hailed as an American hero.

Frivolity aside, a 50-foot wall, especially one that goes yards underground, would make for a logistical nightmare. For those that successfully make the Herculean effort to get across such a wall, lengthy prison sentences, followed by bringing them back to their families in Mexico 10 to 20 years later. And for repeat offenders, lifetime sentences.

 

[Bullseye]

No.. That's 100% Trump. Insults, name calling is Trump's GOP..

Nope!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'll say this, if a person can literally jump over the 50-foot wall, they automatically should be granted citizenship, along with a book deal and a documentary about their life. Also, they should be claimed an American hero.

Frivolity aside, a 50-foot wall, especially one that goes yards underground, would make for a logistical nightmare. For those that successfully make the Herculean effort to get across such a wall, lengthy prison sentences, followed by bringing them back to their families 10 to 20 years later. And for repeat offenders, lifetime sentences.

I'm not against prosecuting border jumpers, but I don't think the wall will do diddly for the money invested, particularly since it will wind up costing TEN times the five billion Trump is demanding right now.

PS: "goes yards underground?" Ooooo-weee, guess what else goes yards underground?

PS: When you say "literally jump" is there laughter in the room where you are?

This is a ladder, ever seen one?

And, Trump's border wall isn't going to be 50 feet high either.

 

[Xyce]

You're functioning under the straw man that claims liberals want open borders.
I found TWO, out of the entire population of DP, who said that they support open borders.

And I'm sure that that particular sample represents all American liberals. I'm sure that you found two through scientifically sound polling. I'm sure that it had the merits of Pew.

 

[Xyce]

I'm not against prosecuting border jumpers, but I don't think the wall will do diddly for the money invested, particularly since it will wind up costing TEN times the five billion Trump is demanding right now.

PS: "goes yards underground?" Ooooo-weee, guess what else goes yards underground?

Yes, yes. But if you notice. That tunnel was discovered before probably being caved in. It takes years to make a tunnel, especially one that runs underground for however many yards that are needed. But once that tunnel is discovered, poof, it goes away. Then its years of more work to rebuild. That won't be fun. Furthermore, I'm not sure those who want to get across to the US are going to have the resources to make such a tunnel, not unless their is some economic incentive for a group, like drug cartels, that mostly create complex tunnels like that to funnel drugs into the States.

 

[Saladin4]

I'll say this, if a person can literally jump over the 50-foot wall, they automatically should be granted citizenship, along with a book deal and a documentary about their life. Also, they should be hailed as an American hero.

Frivolity aside, a 50-foot wall, especially one that goes yards underground, would make for a logistical nightmare. For those that successfully make the Herculean effort to get across such a wall, lengthy prison sentences, followed by bringing them back to their families in Mexico 10 to 20 years later. And for repeat offenders, lifetime sentences.

trump isn't getting a wall...Not Now...Not Ever

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And I'm sure that that particular sample represents all American liberals. I'm sure that you found two through scientifically sound polling. I'm sure that it had the merits of Pew.

If you had scientifically sound polling that proved that the overwhelming majority of liberals want open borders, you would have posted it. Everyone on the Right would have, ad nauseum.

You ain't got diddly.

 

[Xyce]

I'm not against prosecuting border jumpers, but I don't think the wall will do diddly for the money invested, particularly since it will wind up costing TEN times the five billion Trump is demanding right now.

PS: "goes yards underground?" Ooooo-weee, guess what else goes yards underground?

PS: When you say "literally jump" is there laughter in the room where you are?

This is a ladder, ever seen one?

And, Trump's border wall isn't going to be 50 feet high either.

How do you know?

 

[aks]

Nope. Nonsequitur. Your premises do not match the scope of your conclusion. Your conclusion is very broad, “vast majority of people,” but the sub-claim/premise is more narrow, “everyone who crosses the border.”

At best all you’ve demonstrated is the vast majority of people who do attempt to cross the border are not deterred by the wall. Your argument doesn’t establish a “vast majority of the people” are not deterred.



Yes, the wall is “a solution” but not “the” solution. The wall is but one factor, one variable, in the equation. The wall is not the equation.

Second, you resort to another nonsequitur by alleging “how many people will be deterred is the most important issue” on the basis of “border security is not free.” Yes, border security costs some shekels, but that fact doesn’t mean the number of people deterred is the “most” important issue. Border security involves many different components, each with a price tag, but the existence of a price tag doesn’t mean the thing with a sticker price is the “most important.”



Your loaded question is problematic. There’s been no evidence a “small percentage of people” will be deterred. Neither did you make rational argument showing a small percentage of people will be deterred.



“Entire point”? No. An impediment, such as a border wall, isn’t limited to just dissuading but to make more difficult entry into the country for those who attempt to enter unlawfully.

You aren’t as smart as you think you are. The fact of the matter is that a wall will almost certainly be ineffective in stemming the illegal flow by any meaningful measure. Eminent domain is a problem and the roi is not even close. Of course none of this matters because Mexico is going to pay for it, right?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes, yes. But if you notice. That tunnel was discovered before probably being caved in. It takes years to make a tunnel, especially one that runs underground for however many yards that are needed. But once that tunnel is discovered, poof, it goes away. Then its years of more work to rebuild. That won't be fun. Furthermore, I'm not sure those who want to get across to the US are going to have the resources to make such a tunnel, not unless their is some economic incentive for a group, like drug cartels, that mostly create complex tunnels like that to funnel drugs into the States.

I don't see you supporting your argument, just making wild claims, like that one about Trump's wall being 50 feet high.
You didn't support that one either.

 

[Xyce]

If you had scientifically sound polling that proved that the overwhelming majority of liberals want open borders, you would have posted it. Everyone on the Right would have, ad nauseum.

You ain't got diddly.

There is a large, growing faction in American liberalism that advocates open borders. There is a growing hatred of immigration enforcement, in general.

According to CNN,

More Democrats have joined the growing list of names who want to abolish US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, more commonly known as ICE.

This includes AOC, the darling of the left, and the current figurehead of liberalism:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who beat Democratic Rep. Joe Crowley of New York in the primary last week, ran on a platform of abolishing the agency, and so far, more lawmakers have echoed her call.

It's not logically unsound to extrapolate that a majority of Democrats openly will call for open borders. There are some prominent names who already have.

 

[DaveFagan]

Dave,
Speaking of which, did you see the DRUNK HISTORY episode about banana republics? Hilarious, but all true.

Never saw it but the title speaks volumes and is very enticing.
/

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It was a rational response to your post.

It would be rational if even one of you were able to post research that shows that the overwhelming majority of Democrats and other liberal types want "open borders". If such proof existed, it would have been plastered all over DP every day for the last two years.

Yawn. Straw man is straw-a-rific.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

How do you know?

How do I know? Do you have any news clippings or media that mentions the height of the wall or any other specifications?

The man can't even make up his mind what it will be made of.

 

[Xyce]

I don't see you supporting your argument, just making wild claims, like that one about Trump's wall being 50 feet high.
You didn't support that one either.

How am I not supporting my argument? What do you think those tunnels are used for? Are they just used to help people get across the border, or are they used to funnel drugs across the border? And what do you think officials do when they discover the tunnels? Do they just shrug and walk away, or do they cave them in? How long do you think it takes to make those tunnels?

 

[Bullseye]

It would be rational if even one of you were able to post research that shows that the overwhelming majority of Democrats and other liberal types want "open borders". If such proof existed, it would have been plastered all over DP every day for the last two years.

Yawn. Straw man is straw-a-rific.

Lvet's use the opposite to prove that: List below all Democratic proposals for stopping illegal border crossing; particularly those in the wilderness areas along the border. Failure to do so proves the proposition.