A question for my left wing friends....

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'd bet more than a few of the moonbats on this forum would claim it was Bush

Or Obama.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Let's see how honest you are Cap. In YOUR world, do you honestly believe that the attack on Pearl Harbor is comparable to our current state of economic affairs? Or, is this simply a lame attempt to toss out the ol' red herring? :roll:

You obviously missed the point of my post.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I don't believe he was comparing the economic crisis to the Pearl Harbor bombing in terms of magnitude, obviously Pearl Harbor was far more devastating. But the point I believe he was trying to make is that the circumstances are analogous, not that they are equally severe. As an analogy it is apt.

Thank you. Guy understood my post.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

No, what he WAS doing SPECIFICALLY was attempting to bait Navy Pride by asking if he was a hypocrite because NP is calling out Obama for waffling on his campaign promises, but presuming he would support FDR's actions resulting from the attack on Pearl Harbor. What he was SPECIFICALLY doing , was throwing out a red herring by attempting to compare our current economic "crisis" to Pearl Harbor. Diverting the discussion from the OP to something that no sane person would consider comparable to Obama's current actions. If he were honest, he'd admit it. :shrug:

Nope. Guy was correct. You were wrong.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

that's just plain stupid

try again.

No. It's a matter of perspective.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

what a silly strawman argument.

Actually, it's an argument that follows the straw man that you have been spewing for months.

 

[X Factor]

How exactly is having the decency to admit that you've done something wrong anti-American? Or somehow inaccurate? We did all that stuff. Just whining that the other side says these things doesn't make them any less true. It just means you're sticking your fingers in your ears. People suffer every day in this country, and we all have the ability to stop it. And contrary to the line of bull that we get fed, it's not because people are lazy. It's because the system creates losers, through no fault of their own. Only selfishness, callousness, and greed and lead a person not to care.

To allow America to chew people up and spit them out is to hate it. Taking responsibility and fixing mistakes is pro-America. Don't confuse the two.

And the "What it Means to be Liberal in a Nutshell" award goes to....

 

[X Factor]

You just have to have a large number of roommates, its workable as long as you have no human dignity

Okay, so that covers the liberals...

 

[X Factor]

So, in other words, as I suggested, you have nothing to back up your claims. Nothing but a talking point. Good to know.

I'm sorry, I must have missed where you answered my question. I'll ask again. Are you seriously telling me that people on unemployment for nearly two years could not have landed even one job?

No, it means exactly what I said. Worthless. It be worth something if you either admitted it was nothing but your opinion or had sime evidence to back up what you claimed. But you did not do the former nor present the latter, so your comments have no value as far as being factual.

I get it. Any opinion I hold that is not the same as yours is "worthless". Careful man, you're hurting my self esteem what with all this talk of being worthless. That's not very PC. The ACLU's going to yank your card.

 

[Pote]

I get it. Any opinion I hold that is not the same as yours is "worthless". Careful man, you're hurting my self esteem what with all this talk of being worthless. That's not very PC. The ACLU's going to yank your card.

I think what he was actually trying to say is that you haven't supported your opinions with enough/any evidence to validate them. Your opinions are definitely not worthless, but they are not factual either.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm sorry, I must have missed where you answered my question. I'll ask again. Are you seriously telling me that people on unemployment for nearly two years could not have landed even one job?

My comment was a response to your claim that people are refusing to find work. Here, I'll repost your comment:

I more resent supporting folks unwilling to work because they won't take a job that's "beneath" them.

I requested that you show evidence that people are unwilling to work because they won't take a job that's "beneath" them. Research percentages and links, please. All you posted was a mess of your own perceptions. I'll happily answer your question after you respond to my request.

I get it. Any opinion I hold that is not the same as yours is "worthless". Careful man, you're hurting my self esteem what with all this talk of being worthless. That's not very PC. The ACLU's going to yank your card.

Ah... conservative distortions. No surprise that you are good at them. Now... how about we... or YOU dispense with the idiotic partisan hackery and actually DEBATE. If you read carefully, I never said that your opinion is worthless. Your opinion has as much value as mine. However, opinions are worthless when they are presented as facts with no evidence to back them. Re-read what I wrote and I'm sure you'll see that.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I think what he was actually trying to say is that you haven't supported your opinions with enough/any evidence to validate them. Your opinions are definitely not worthless, but they are not factual either.

THANK YOU. Welcome to DP.

 

[Pote]

Ah... conservative distortions. No surprise that you are good at them. Now... how about we... or YOU dispense with the idiotic partisan hackery and actually DEBATE. If you read carefully, I never said that your opinion is worthless. Your opinion has as much value as mine. However, opinions are worthless when they are presented as facts with no evidence to back them. Re-read what I wrote and I'm sure you'll see that.

Thanks for the welcome, bit isn't this first bit somewhat hypocritical?
Anyways, I liked the way this was going: "Yep, I was right, not clue. One born in a certain caste can never change it. Is that really how you think the US works?"

 

[X Factor]

I think what he was actually trying to say is that you haven't supported your opinions with enough/any evidence to validate them. Your opinions are definitely not worthless, but they are not factual either.

Shoot, I'm just happy to have someone say my opinions aren't worthless. Indeed, welcome to the forum.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Thanks for the welcome, bit isn't this first bit somewhat hypocritical?

It was sarcasm, demonstrated by my qualifying statement here: "Now... how about we... or YOU dispense with the idiotic partisan hackery and actually DEBATE." When someone starts spewing partisan hackery, I will often show it by trumping it dramatically... and then asking people to cease. It's an overdramtic debate tool showing the foolishness of the partisan statement made by the other poster.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Shoot, I'm just happy to have someone say my opinions aren't worthless. Indeed, welcome to the forum.

I said it too. :2razz:

 

[Pote]

It was sarcasm, demonstrated by my qualifying statement here: "Now... how about we... or YOU dispense with the idiotic partisan hackery and actually DEBATE." When someone starts spewing partisan hackery, I will often show it by trumping it dramatically... and then asking people to cease. It's an overdramtic debate tool showing the foolishness of the partisan statement made by the other poster.

Ah, sorry, it's somewhat hard to read sarcasm through text, especially when its coming from a poster that I'm not familiar with.
Anyways, caste system in America...

There is an education disparity between the rich and poor, as evidenced by the rich scoring higher on SAT's and generally going to college more, which in turn allows them to make more money. Of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule, the children of the rich get richer and the children of the poor get poorer. How would you guys solve a problem like this?

 

[X Factor]

My comment was a response to your claim that people are refusing to find work. Here, I'll repost your comment:



I requested that you show evidence that people are unwilling to work because they won't take a job that's "beneath" them. Research percentages and links, please. All you posted was a mess of your own perceptions. I'll happily answer your question after you respond to my request.

If you had answered my question, you would have had the response to your request. You're claiming that everyone on unemployment has spent the last 2 year earnestly looking for a job, any job, right? So why can't they find one?

Ah... conservative distortions. No surprise that you are good at them. Now... how about we... or YOU dispense with the idiotic partisan hackery and actually DEBATE. If you read carefully, I never said that your opinion is worthless. Your opinion has as much value as mine. However, opinions are worthless when they are presented as facts with no evidence to back them. Re-read what I wrote and I'm sure you'll see that.

Quick self check quiz and you're on the honor system. Have you ever told someone you agreed with that their opinion on something was nevertheless worthless?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

If you had answered my question, you would have had the response to your request. You're claiming that everyone on unemployment has spent the last 2 year earnestly looking for a job, any job, right? So why can't they find one?

You made the initial claim. Was your claim fact or opinion? If the former, please provide substantiation. If the latter, please restate with this in mind.

Quick self check quiz and you're on the honor system. Have you ever told someone you agreed with that their opinion on something was nevertheless worthless?

I seldom debate those I agree with. What's the fun in that? If they presented that opinion as fact? I can think of a time or two. Probably not as often though, since I don't debate those I agree with as often.

Oh, and again, I never said your opinion was worthless. I said it was worthless if it was presented as fact. Please get this right.

 

[X Factor]

Ah, sorry, it's somewhat hard to read sarcasm through text, especially when its coming from a poster that I'm not familiar with.
Anyways, caste system in America...

There is an education disparity between the rich and poor, as evidenced by the rich scoring higher on SAT's and generally going to college more, which in turn allows them to make more money. Of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule, the children of the rich get richer and the children of the poor get poorer. How would you guys solve a problem like this?

A good question, although, I still don't think this is actually the same thing as an actual caste system. There wouldn't even be any potential for education or improving ones position in life of the US was truly a caste system.

 

[Pote]

If you had answered my question, you would have had the response to your request. You're claiming that everyone on unemployment has spent the last 2 year earnestly looking for a job, any job, right? So why can't they find one?

This is a pretty difficult question to answer. Of course there are a at least a few people on unemployment that haven't been earnestly looking for jobs, but I think the last two years have been marked by a high rate of layoffs and the outsourcing of blue collar jobs in America has certainly contributed to the high unemployment rates.

Two-year low for layoffs hints at hiring pickup - Yahoo! News shows that November has been the lowest rate of new applications for unemployment, although this is more of a correlational piece of evidence...This means that new applications for unemployment were relatively high during the last two years, which helps to give a little context about this argument.

A good question, although, I still don't think this is actually the same thing as an actual caste system. There wouldn't even be any potential for education or improving ones position in life of the US was truly a caste system.

I guess we have differing definitions of caste system. Regardless, I would still argue that the snowball effect of wealth is a pretty big problem for the U.S., or will be in the future.

 

[X Factor]

You made the initial claim. Was your claim fact or opinion? If the former, please provide substantiation. If the latter, please restate with this in mind.

What if it's sort of a hybrid? I know people on unemployment who come up with every justification why this job or that job is not right for them, so they stay home and collect unemployment. At the same time I know people who went to school full time while working full time and supporting a family, my dad for example. So my opinions are based on what I'm able to observe. Are my observations worthless or worthwhile, you make the call.

I seldom debate those I agree with. What's the fun in that? If they presented that opinion as fact? I can think of a time or two. Probably not as often though, since I don't debate those I agree with as often.

Oh, and again, I never said your opinion was worthless. I said it was worthless if it was presented as fact. Please get this right.

Just be happy you were able to get under my skin. That's really pretty rare for me to allow that to happen, but I'll admit that you scored a hit and pissed me off.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

What if it's sort of a hybrid? I know people on unemployment who come up with every justification why this job or that job is not right for them, so they stay home and collect unemployment. At the same time I know people who went to school full time while working full time and supporting a family, my dad for example. So my opinions are based on what I'm able to observe. Are my observations worthless or worthwhile, you make the call.

Observations are always worthwhile, but they do not always prove the rule. I work with teenagers. I have a few who have looked for jobs (minimum wage, obviously) and are having a major problem finding one. They go to the mall, apply everywhere, and get no callbacks. Then, I have a few others, who bitch about not getting a job, but haven't gotten off their butts to apply anywhere. They just play video games. So, what does this prove? That my experience is that there are some who are trying and having difficulty, and some who aren't trying at all.

I don't think that people, in general, are unwilling to work at a job that is beneath them. I think that reaction is far too simplistic. That's the point that I have been trying to get you to see.

Just be happy you were able to get under my skin. That's really pretty rare for me to allow that to happen, but I'll admit that you scored a hit and pissed me off.

Trust me. You'll learn I'm good at that. Seriously, I'm sorry if you thought I meant that your opinion is worthless. It's not... no one's is. But if someone tries to pass off their opinion as fact, guarenteed I will go after it. One of my pet peeves.

 

[Guy Incognito]

America was founded on the brutal slaughter of the indigenous people. And on mass exploitation of slave labor. And on abusing a constant stream of cheap immigrant labor. This country was founded on getting rich off of the labor of others, not on one's own hard work. Fortunately, the exploited people have a voice in this modern age. And also some of us who reap the benefits of murder and slavery have a conscience. We don't want to see the abuse continue.

Too true. America was indeed founded on the worst kind of government handouts. Many (but not all) of these vile practices have been done away with today, but their effects still linger. It's unfortunate that so many are unaware of history or choose to turn a blind eye to it.

 

[TurtleDude]

Too true. America was indeed founded on the worst kind of government handouts. Many (but not all) of these vile practices have been done away with today, but their effects still linger. It's unfortunate that so many are unaware of history or choose to turn a blind eye to it.

yawn, whining about stuff that happened centuries ago is the same sort of parasitic mindset that causes crap like reparations or affirmative action. What possible use is there to whine about that?