A Nation of Simpletons

[Crystal]

if you did not understand the point I was making then keep it to yourself rather then display your inabilities publicly.

It was a simple civil question.

 

[sangha]

It was a simple civil question.

So you believe dishonesty is civil?

 

[Jack Hays]

. . . . No, this is about racism and bigotry and ignorance and hate and cruelty, nothing more or less.

Yes, yours.

 

[MrWonka]

Yada, yada, yada. You think those "studies" weren't done by "leftist intellectuals"? Could it be that pretend intellectuals seem to think they know what "rural white christians" think pr believe?

Well, I'm actually from a small mid-western town of less than 3000 people. We have one stop light, and that's only because we're the county seat and need it so people can take drivers tests on it. So I know those rural white Christians very very well. They are my family and friends, and my characterization of them is sadly flawlessly accurate.

The nice thing about scientific studies though is that it doesn't really matter who performs them you can view the raw data yourself. You can read the methodology and look at how they came to their conclusions.

An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

This study has actually been duplicated so many times by different people it actually has an official name in psychology called the Dunning Kruger effect. You see when you lack the skills necessary to realize what you might not understand you tend to have more confidence in your understanding even when it's very inferior.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias in which people believe that they are smarter and more capable than they really are. Essentially, low ability people do not possess the skills needed to recognize their own incompetence.

It's kind of like all these conceal and carry idiots who think their gun will turn them into Bruce Willis in an active shooter situation. Almost none of these people have ever been through the situation though, and have no idea how they would react. When you listen to police officers and security officials talk though they will tell you unequivocally that running away, hiding, or just letting a burglar have your stuff are all more likely to insure your safety than starting a gun fight will be.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I realize that of all the issues facing all of us, you think a bunch of Mexicans picking your strawberries or cleaning your toilets in the hotel room you stayed in is the most important because of "laws". If you care about "laws" so much I am sure you would welcome restriction devices on your car that link up to speed limits making it impossible to go one MPH faster then the limit. 5G will make this possible, you will drive around with a little woodie once this becomes reality because of "laws". Or maybe you think because of "laws", every single kid who broke a drug related law should be in prison. Lets turn the FBI on to fraternities and sororities all across the nation. Yep, invade every one of them next Friday and Saturday and send those horrid little lawbreakers to the same jails we send their black peers to forever because you love "laws". You and others like you could care less about "laws". You voted for a man who flaunts the law so don't try to make this about "laws". No, this is about racism and bigotry and ignorance and hate and cruelty, nothing more or less.

Yeah because national security equates to imaginary devices in your car that regulate your speed limit. We have police officers for that. But great idea...following the logic you just stated...we can tag illegals with tracking devices to make sure they show up at their hearings on time and make sure they exit the country. Sorta like cattle. Good idea!

 

[Erod]

In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

The political discourse matches exactly the level of integrity and goodwill among the miscreants that inhabit Washington.

Reaping and sowing. That's what we're doing. Simple as that.

 

[Crystal]

So you believe dishonesty is civil?

Explain what was dishonest and then in your mind un civil.

 

[sangha]

Explain what was dishonest and then in your mind un civil.

I asked a simple civil question

 

[Crystal]

I asked a simple civil question

Well all I can tell you is you lack the ability to discern truth! Your misfortune!

 

[Vadinho]

Yeah because national security equates to imaginary devices in your car that regulate your speed limit. We have police officers for that. But great idea...following the logic you just stated...we can tag illegals with tracking devices to make sure they show up at their hearings on time and make sure they exit the country. Sorta like cattle. Good idea!

And taking men from jobs in middle America who are just trying to get by, destroying families, deporting their legal underage American kids is a way to combat terrorism. Get a life buddy. This border stuff was never about terrorism, it was about riling up crackers so they would vote for a beast whose only real desire is to have power and give himself tax breaks. Give me a break. Laws...my God. You want to enforce laws? We can turn into a police state if you think obeying every law is so damn patriotic. Lets start with the IRS. Fund it so that every single tax return is audited every year. We don't want anyone cheating on taxes now do we? Laws baby, enforce the laws.

 

[NWRatCon]

You know, I've come to appreciate threads like this (I know, I know, I started it), because the trolls make themselves so obvious I can populate my "ignore" list and haul out the trash. It wasn't my intention, but it sure has become useful.

 

[Hypothetical]

And taking men from jobs in middle America who are just trying to get by, destroying families, deporting their legal underage American kids is a way to combat terrorism. .

you are right in a way... the BORDER thing is about vetting people for being criminals , terrorists, sick , drug or human traffickers or whatever would hurt OUR population if they were let in without being checked out.

but you are wrong , because it's NOT only about terrorism and there's not a damn thing wrong with it.

 

[smallvoice]

Well, I'm actually from a small mid-western town of less than 3000 people. We have one stop light, and that's only because we're the county seat and need it so people can take drivers tests on it. So I know those rural white Christians very very well. They are my family and friends, and my characterization of them is sadly flawlessly accurate.

The nice thing about scientific studies though is that it doesn't really matter who performs them you can view the raw data yourself. You can read the methodology and look at how they came to their conclusions.

An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

This study has actually been duplicated so many times by different people it actually has an official name in psychology called the Dunning Kruger effect. You see when you lack the skills necessary to realize what you might not understand you tend to have more confidence in your understanding even when it's very inferior.



It's kind of like all these conceal and carry idiots who think their gun will turn them into Bruce Willis in an active shooter situation. Almost none of these people have ever been through the situation though, and have no idea how they would react. When you listen to police officers and security officials talk though they will tell you unequivocally that running away, hiding, or just letting a burglar have your stuff are all more likely to insure your safety than starting a gun fight will be.

I'm sure you say what you think to them, yet they allow you to survive. Be happy, because the rest of those folks you try to denigrate might not be so forgiving.

 

[NWRatCon]

Back the theme of the thread, I've noticed that those who complain the most about "identity politics" are actually the purveyors of "identity politics". It's just that the "identity" they want to identify with is straight, white, male. Seriously. Show me any thread where identity politics is raised by anyone who is not arguing as a straight white (probably male). That is the "simplicity" I'm trying to deal with when I talk about "simpleton."

Maybe I should start a thread on that topic.

 

[AlphaOmega]

And taking men from jobs in middle America who are just trying to get by, destroying families, deporting their legal underage American kids is a way to combat terrorism. Get a life buddy. This border stuff was never about terrorism, it was about riling up crackers so they would vote for a beast whose only real desire is to have power and give himself tax breaks. Give me a break. Laws...my God. You want to enforce laws? We can turn into a police state if you think obeying every law is so damn patriotic. Lets start with the IRS. Fund it so that every single tax return is audited every year. We don't want anyone cheating on taxes now do we? Laws baby, enforce the laws.

Say that to family members of murdered Americans at the hands of illegals...say that to American women who have been raped by illegals. You won't and don't. Spare us your drama club speeches. Americans hate democrats because they are traitors. Good luck in 2020 and thanks for helping to re-elect Trump with statements like above.

 

[MrWonka]

I'm sure you say what you think to them, yet they allow you to survive. Be happy, because the rest of those folks you try to denigrate might not be so forgiving.

Do you think the fact that you're angry about my assessment of these types of people has any bearing on whether my assessment is accurate? I grew up with these people. They are friends and close relatives. I'm not some city boy who doesn't know what Midwestern life is all about. I've lived it. I assure you I understand and connect with their mindset far better than Silver Spoon Manhattan Trump. They are simpletons, and you are being manipulated by evil men. That is the truth whether you like it or not.

 

[MrWonka]

Say that to family members of murdered Americans at the hands of illegals...say that to American women who have been raped by illegals.

Your ilk put a rapist on the Supreme Court. If you care more about their documentation than you do about rape then you're the problem.

 

[smallvoice]

Do you think the fact that you're angry about my assessment of these types of people has any bearing on whether my assessment is accurate? I grew up with these people. They are friends and close relatives. I'm not some city boy who doesn't know what Midwestern life is all about. I've lived it. I assure you I understand and connect with their mindset far better than Silver Spoon Manhattan Trump. They are simpletons, and you are being manipulated by evil men. That is the truth whether you like it or not.

I'm not "angry". Stupid posts, like yours, which say it's OK to define your friends and family to fit in with your politics, deserve what you get.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Your ilk put a rapist on the Supreme Court. If you care more about their documentation than you do about rape then you're the problem.

Lets test that for facts versus TDS blabber. Please cite the name of the rapist. Just so we can be sure it is TDS.

 

[Hypothetical]

You know, I've come to appreciate threads like this (I know, I know, I started it), because the trolls make themselves so obvious I can populate my "ignore" list and haul out the trash. It wasn't my intention, but it sure has become useful.

you know, I try to be a good debater and just lay down my opinions, or facts and not get upset or troll, but at times it is just too good to pass up.

for example NWRatCon, this post you liked:

Your ilk put a rapist on the Supreme Court. If you care more about their documentation than you do about rape then you're the problem.

you're going to tell others about trolling and yet support this opinion based on what I have to assume is hearsay?

 

[MrWonka]

you're going to tell others about trolling and yet support this opinion based on what I have to assume is hearsay?

The accuser passed a lie detector test, the accused refused to take one. Sorry pal, but the accuser was infinitely more credible than the piece of **** on the court. Even if there's only a 50% chance he did the things she said he did that's more than enough to deny him a seat on our nations highest court.

 

[MrWonka]

I'm not "angry". Stupid posts, like yours, which say it's OK to define your friends and family to fit in with your politics, deserve what you get.

You're very angry. You want to believe I'm some out of touch city boy from the coast who simply doesn't understand the people I'm bashing, but the truth is that I know them all too well and that just ****s with your whole narrative. It is specifically because I understand how they think that I am am so disappointed and embarrassed by their ignorance.

 

[NWRatCon]

Go back to anti intellectualism. That's more your thing.

I have never really understood the attack on intellectualism. It is, however, pervasive on playgrounds and discussion boards. Any time someone uses an arcane expression or a multi-syllabic phrase, they are attacked for "elitism". Frankly, I've always been a fan of fifty-cent words. I adore the nuance of language. But, anyone who actually knows me knows I am anything but an elitist. I started in the Army as a Private. As I have noted before, I have done all the typical jobs as a minimum-wage worker - paper boy, janitor, line cook, etc. I have always striven to do better and do good. I've encouraged all of my children and all of my subordinates to advance as far as they could. Not a single one of my chief NCOs remained an NCO... all of them became Warrant or Commissioned Officers. Every single one, because I encouraged advancement. (I also encouraged all of my NCOs take motorcycle training so that they could understand the Soldiers under them who were riding motorcycles - and could talk to them knowledgeably about safety and risk.) Why are some people so resistant to understanding and learning. If you are a farmer, you want to know how to get better yield from your crops. If you are a mechanic, you want to know how to work on new vehicles. Why is it when it comes to public policy, some just want to put blinders on?

 

[ecofarm]

I have never really understood the attack on intellectualism. It is, however, pervasive on playgrounds and discussion boards. Any time someone uses an arcane expression or a multi-syllabic phrase, they are attacked for "elitism". Frankly, I've always been a fan of fifty-cent words. I adore the nuance of language. But, anyone who actually knows me knows I am anything but an elitist. I started in the Army as a Private. As I have noted before, I have done all the typical jobs as a minimum-wage worker - paper boy, janitor, line cook, etc. I have always striven to do better and do good. I've encouraged all of my children and all of my subordinates to advance as far as they could. Not a single one of my chief NCOs remained an NCO... all of them became Warrant or Commissioned Officers. Every single one, because I encouraged advancement. (I also encouraged all of my NCOs take motorcycle training so that they could understand the Soldiers under them who were riding motorcycles - and could talk to them knowledgeably about safety and risk.) Why are some people so resistant to understanding and learning. If you are a farmer, you want to know how to get better yield from your crops. If you are a mechanic, you want to know how to work on new vehicles. Why is it when it comes to public policy, some just want to put blinders on?

90% of anti intellectualism is in support of racism, sexism and homophobia.

 

[NWRatCon]

you know, I try to be a good debater and just lay down my opinions, or facts and not get upset or troll, but at times it is just too good to pass up.

for example NWRatCon, this post you liked:




you're going to tell others about trolling and yet support this opinion based on what I have to assume is hearsay?

No, I watched the hearings. It was apparent to any rational observer that Kavanaugh was just lying. I spent a good deal of my career having to evaluate credibility. I form my own opinions based upon what I observe. Besides, I was just liking a post. I've never posted the crap you post and tried to pass it off as "rational discussion." I provide links, data, etc. I look forward to your posting something that resembles "debate". I really do.