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A man on death row was guilty? Surprise surprise (NOT)

aps

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DNA Ties Man Executed in '92 to the Murder He Denied
By JAMES DAO

WASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - Thirteen years after Roger K. Coleman went to the electric chair declaring, "An innocent man is being murdered tonight," a new DNA test has found that he was almost certainly the source of genetic material found in the body of his murdered sister-in-law, Virginia officials announced on Thursday.

The finding was a stunning blow to a lay minister who for nearly 18 years argued for Mr. Coleman's innocence, and it vindicated the prosecutors who won Mr. Coleman's conviction in 1982 and the governor, L. Douglas Wilder, who allowed his execution to proceed 10 years later.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/13/national/13dna.html

Thank goodness for this. Mark Warner (now the former governor of Virginia) ordered the DNA testing in this case because DNA testing showed that a man who was scheduled to die was innocent.

I really hate criminals who claim innocence.
 

ngdawg

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This is a wake-up call for all those altruistic 'missionaries' who run to the defense of some convicted felon, declaring their absolute innocence of the crime they were sentenced for.
Michale Paranzino, president of a death penalty proponent group, Throw Away the Key, had this to say: Stop the presses: It turns out that rapists and killers are also liars. (source: Newark Star Ledger) James McCloskey of Centurion MInistries, who was championing Coleman's plea and shared his last meal with him, called the findings a 'kick in the stomach' and added he felt betrayed by Coleman. Well, duh....

I am neither a proponent or opponent of the death penalty. On one hand, I feel it the ultimate punishment as vindication for the victim and someone that heinous doesn't deserve any breaks. On the other hand, it seems an easy out(if a final one) that doesn't allow the perpetrator to experience a living hell for what he/she's done, it's costly(appeals, etc take money and years) and, while it's vengeance, it's an emotional sentence, not a 'just' one. (Spending the rest of their lives in true solitary seems more fitting).

To others on Death Row loudly proclaiming their innocence and wringing out every last appeal and dollar, I'd say: Better watch yourselves now. It's not going to be so easy any more to get bleeding hearts to run to your defense.
 

paulmarkj

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aps said:
DNA Ties Man Executed in '92 to the Murder He Denied
By JAMES DAO

WASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - Thirteen years after Roger K. Coleman went to the electric chair declaring, "An innocent man is being murdered tonight," a new DNA test has found that he was almost certainly the source of genetic material found in the body of his murdered sister-in-law, Virginia officials announced on Thursday.

The finding was a stunning blow to a lay minister who for nearly 18 years argued for Mr. Coleman's innocence, and it vindicated the prosecutors who won Mr. Coleman's conviction in 1982 and the governor, L. Douglas Wilder, who allowed his execution to proceed 10 years later.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/13/national/13dna.html

Thank goodness for this. Mark Warner (now the former governor of Virginia) ordered the DNA testing in this case because DNA testing showed that a man who was scheduled to die was innocent.

I really hate criminals who claim innocence.
It hardly helps your cause when you feel the need to point out that an executed man is actually guilty!
 

aps

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paulmarkj said:
It hardly helps your cause when you feel the need to point out that an executed man is actually guilty!
Paul, I don't have a cause. In fact, I do not support the death penalty. I just get tired of those who are on death row or even those who will be in jail for life saying that they are innocent. It happens all the time, and I have no respect for people who refuse to own up to their own acts. I hope Scott Peterson suffers the same consequences as Jeffrey Dahmer did.
 

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Originally Posted by aps
DNA Ties Man Executed in '92 to the Murder He Denied
By JAMES DAO

WASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - Thirteen years after Roger K. Coleman went to the electric chair declaring, "An innocent man is being murdered tonight," a new DNA test has found that he was almost certainly the source of genetic material found in the body of his murdered sister-in-law, Virginia officials announced on Thursday.

The finding was a stunning blow to a lay minister who for nearly 18 years argued for Mr. Coleman's innocence, and it vindicated the prosecutors who won Mr. Coleman's conviction in 1982 and the governor, L. Douglas Wilder, who allowed his execution to proceed 10 years later.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/13/national/13dna.html

Thank goodness for this. Mark Warner (now the former governor of Virginia) ordered the DNA testing in this case because DNA testing showed that a man who was scheduled to die was innocent.

I really hate criminals who claim innocence.
How do you feel about the 116 people that were on death row and because of DNA testing were exonerated?
 

Billo_Really

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Here we go again. California is 24 hours away from executing a 76 year old invalid on his birthday.

If you judged our society on the state of our prison system, then we would be a pretty f_cked nation.
 

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aps said:
Paul, I don't have a cause. In fact, I do not support the death penalty. I just get tired of those who are on death row or even those who will be in jail for life saying that they are innocent. It happens all the time, and I have no respect for people who refuse to own up to their own acts. I hope Scott Peterson suffers the same consequences as Jeffrey Dahmer did.
Some are guilty and keep claiming they are innocent but are truly guilty. Some of them are truly innocent and they keep saying they are innocent because they were wrongly convicted and they really are innocent. I am here to tell you, innocent people go to prison alot more often than you think. Sometimes evidence is fabricated against them to make them look guilty and people are framed either by the government/system or an individual. Crime labs that process and interpret evidence have been known to be wrong and/or corrupt. That does happen. It's not too difficult to make an innocent person look and appear guilty before a jury and to get a wrongful conviction of that innocent person. And sometimes these innocent people were at the wrong place at the wrong time and it would seem by the facts of the case they are guilty when in fact they are innocent. And they just end up getting wrongfully convicted due to honest mistakes or misperceptions of the prosecutor and jury and those that gathered evidence.
 

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Billo_Really said:
Here we go again. California is 24 hours away from executing a 76 year old invalid on his birthday.

If you judged our society on the state of our prison system, then we would be a pretty f_cked nation.
I think a fair judgement of a nation can be derived from the state of that nation's prison system and how we treat our prisoners.
 

RightinNYC

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Billo_Really said:
Here we go again. California is 24 hours away from executing a 76 year old invalid on his birthday.

If you judged our society on the state of our prison system, then we would be a pretty f_cked nation.
So he should be set free? Or spared retribution for his crimes because he's old?

How old was he when he committed his crimes? What did he do? How long was his death penalty case tied up in the courts with appeal after appeal? How much money has our country spent to defend this guy who isn't worth ****?
 

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Originally posted by RightatNYU:
So he should be set free? Or spared retribution for his crimes because he's old?

How old was he when he committed his crimes? What did he do? How long was his death penalty case tied up in the courts with appeal after appeal? How much money has our country spent to defend this guy who isn't worth ****?
How does his execution solve the problem of murder in America?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by TimmyBoy:
I think a fair judgement of a nation can be derived from the state of that nation's prison system and how we treat our prisoners.
You are absolutely right!
 

RightinNYC

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Billo_Really said:
How does his execution solve the problem of murder in America?
I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty itself. I'm wondering how the fact that he's 76 affects anything.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by RightatNYU:
I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty itself. I'm wondering how the fact that he's 76 affects anything.
He's a 76 year old invalid that we are executing on his birthday. He's no threat to society. His execution reaffirms the notion that we are a brutal nation that has no respect for life.
 

aps

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TimmyBoy said:
Some are guilty and keep claiming they are innocent but are truly guilty. Some of them are truly innocent and they keep saying they are innocent because they were wrongly convicted and they really are innocent. I am here to tell you, innocent people go to prison alot more often than you think. Sometimes evidence is fabricated against them to make them look guilty and people are framed either by the government/system or an individual. Crime labs that process and interpret evidence have been known to be wrong and/or corrupt. That does happen. It's not too difficult to make an innocent person look and appear guilty before a jury and to get a wrongful conviction of that innocent person. And sometimes these innocent people were at the wrong place at the wrong time and it would seem by the facts of the case they are guilty when in fact they are innocent. And they just end up getting wrongfully convicted due to honest mistakes or misperceptions of the prosecutor and jury and those that gathered evidence.
Well, TimmyBoy, can you tell me what the percentage is of those that are innocent and go to jail? Do you think that Scott Peterson is guilty or innocent? The man claims he is innocent, and I would bet every dime that I have that he is guilty. Our judicial system is not perfect and we are not expected to determine that someone is guilty by clear and unmistakable evidence. All we need is beyond a reasonable doubt. That defendant then has the right to appeal and appeal and appeal. I helped a man convicted of drug possession get his conviction overturned, which was a good feeling. Regardless, the man was involved with a bunch of drug addicts. I am so far removed from that kind of lifestyle that I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who get convicted who surround themselves with people involved in illegal activity.
 

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Billo_Really said:
He's a 76 year old invalid that we are executing on his birthday. He's no threat to society. His execution reaffirms the notion that we are a brutal nation that has no respect for life.
Firstly, lets assume that the death penalty itself is settled law, because that's not the topic being discussed. So, if the death penalty is settled law, why should exceptions be made for persons based on their age?

Secondly, are you serious? This guy is the PERFECT example for why the death penalty should exist.

Clarence Ray Allen was conviced of murder in 1974. WHILE IN PRISON, he arranged for the killings of 3 people whom he thought might testify against him in court, hoping that by killing them, his path to an appeal would be clear. For that, he was sentenced to death.

So tell me, aside from the fact that he's responsible for 4 deaths, why should he be spared? Contrary to your claim, he's proven that even in prison, he IS a threat to society and the lives of innocents. He's killed from behind bars before, and for that, deserves to die. He's the poster child for the death penalty.
 

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Originally posted by aps:
Well, TimmyBoy, can you tell me what the percentage is of those that are innocent and go to jail? Do you think that Scott Peterson is guilty or innocent? The man claims he is innocent, and I would bet every dime that I have that he is guilty. Our judicial system is not perfect and we are not expected to determine that someone is guilty by clear and unmistakable evidence. All we need is beyond a reasonable doubt. That defendant then has the right to appeal and appeal and appeal. I helped a man convicted of drug possession get his conviction overturned, which was a good feeling. Regardless, the man was involved with a bunch of drug addicts. I am so far removed from that kind of lifestyle that I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who get convicted who surround themselves with people involved in illegal activity.
I don't know the percentage, but I do know 116 people on death row were innocent. As far as the "...beyond a reasonable doubt..." line, I would think we would exhaust all possible avenues to make sure the person accused of a capitol crime was, in fact, the guilty party. But anyone that does a cursory investigation into death penalty cases will find this couldn't be the farthest thing from the truth.
 

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Originally posted by RightatNYU:
Firstly, lets assume that the death penalty itself is settled law, because that's not the topic being discussed. So, if the death penalty is settled law, why should exceptions be made for persons based on their age?

Secondly, are you serious? This guy is the PERFECT example for why the death penalty should exist.

Clarence Ray Allen was conviced of murder in 1974. WHILE IN PRISON, he arranged for the killings of 3 people whom he thought might testify against him in court, hoping that by killing them, his path to an appeal would be clear. For that, he was sentenced to death.

So tell me, aside from the fact that he's responsible for 4 deaths, why should he be spared? Contrary to your claim, he's proven that even in prison, he IS a threat to society and the lives of innocents. He's killed from behind bars before, and for that, deserves to die. He's the poster child for the death penalty.
I'm not saying he should be spared. He gave up his right to be a member of society in '74. What I am saying that killing him does not bring peace to anyone. Including the victims families. Executing him does nothing to solve the problem of murder in America. I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. And yes, there are people on death row that are guilty of murder. So I ended on topic, happy!
 

TimmyBoy

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aps said:
Well, TimmyBoy, can you tell me what the percentage is of those that are innocent and go to jail? Do you think that Scott Peterson is guilty or innocent? The man claims he is innocent, and I would bet every dime that I have that he is guilty. Our judicial system is not perfect and we are not expected to determine that someone is guilty by clear and unmistakable evidence. All we need is beyond a reasonable doubt. That defendant then has the right to appeal and appeal and appeal. I helped a man convicted of drug possession get his conviction overturned, which was a good feeling. Regardless, the man was involved with a bunch of drug addicts. I am so far removed from that kind of lifestyle that I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who get convicted who surround themselves with people involved in illegal activity.
I couldn't put a percentage on it, I am not a master of statistics. Besides one can use statistics to lie anyway. What I do know, is that innocent people do go to jail and some of these people don't knowingly hang around other people who are engaged in illegal activity. You also have to keep in mind that people can be framed or evidence fabricated against them by the system to make them appear guilty before a jury and court of law, even though they are truly innocent. I can't offer a judgement on the Scott Peterson case because I didn't sit on the jury nor do I know the facts of the case and I didn't follow the case that much. All I would see, is his picture flashed over the news and people talking about the case but I never had time to follow it. But I do know, that their is alot of innocent people who end up going to jail and their is alot of guilty that go free. And your worst criminals, aren't the common people but the rich and the powerful and the politicans and they do everything they can to escape accountability and true justice.
 

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
I couldn't put a percentage on it, I am not a master of statistics. Besides one can use statistics to lie anyway. What I do know, is that innocent people do go to jail and some of these people don't knowingly hang around other people who are engaged in illegal activity. You also have to keep in mind that people can be framed or evidence fabricated against them by the system to make them appear guilty before a jury and court of law, even though they are truly innocent. I can't offer a judgement on the Scott Peterson case because I didn't sit on the jury nor do I know the facts of the case and I didn't follow the case that much. All I would see, is his picture flashed over the news and people talking about the case but I never had time to follow it. But I do know, that their is alot of innocent people who end up going to jail and their is alot of guilty that go free. And your worst criminals, aren't the common people but the rich and the powerful and the politicans and they do everything they can to escape accountability.
Tookie Williams was convicted on the testimony of jail-house informants. Now there's credible witnesses to kill a guy over!
 

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Billo_Really said:
Tookie Williams was convicted on the testimony of jail-house informants. Now there's credible witnesses to kill a guy over!
I don't know the facts of Tookie's case and he may very well be guilty. Even if he is guilty, I oppose his death sentence on the basis that the death penalty is a method of the state being in the business of vengence. Two wrongs do not make a right. It teaches vengence and violence in my view which sets a bad example to the rest of society. If Tookie had the money to pay for a decent defense team, they might have cross examined those jail house witnesses to establish whether the state's witnesses against Tookie was credible. But if he didn't have the money to pay for a decent defense team, they might not have been cross examined good enough and it could have costed Tookie with a conviction and death sentence.
 

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
I don't know the facts of Tookie's case and he may very well be guilty. Even if he is guilty, I oppose his death sentence on the basis that the death penalty is a method of the state being in the business of vengence. Two wrongs do not make a right. It teaches vengence and violence in my view which sets a bad example to the rest of society. If Tookie had the money to pay for a decent defense team, they might have cross examined those jail house witnesses to establish whether the state's witnesses against Tookie was credible. But if he didn't have the money to pay for a decent defense team, they might not have been cross examined good enough and it could have costed Tookie with a conviction and death sentence.
True, true,
Oh so true
Why can't RightatNYU
Understand this obvious clue.
 

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Billo_Really said:
True, true,
Oh so true
Why can't RightatNYU
Understand this obvious clue.
I imagine their are some innocent people who get locked up into prison and they never see the light of day. Wow. But I know innocent people do get demonized as criminals and put away. Imagine what kind of hell those people had to go through. I bet they learn a valuable lesson out of those experiences.
 

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
I imagine their are some innocent people who get locked up into prison and they never see the light of day. Wow. But I know innocent people do get demonized as criminals and put away. Imagine what kind of hell those people had to go through. I bet they learn a valuable lesson out of those experiences.
What they learn is how to be violent as a way to survive day to day living.
 

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Billo_Really said:
True, true,
Oh so true
Why can't RightatNYU
Understand this obvious clue.
And here is another kicker. Some of the people who are suppose to be role models of society like prosecutors or judges or lawyers, some of them are the worst offenders of the law. Some probably even buy drugs from drug dealers and use drugs. I had this one kid who stated to me that he dealt drugs and he claimed that he sold to judges and lawyers sometimes. Now, I don't want to sound self righteous and judgemental. I hate drugs and I view them as this disease that is infecting all segments of our society. It's a poison and I hate to see people ruin themselves with it. I don't think prison can cure this illness either.
 

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
And here is another kicker. Some of the people who are suppose to be role models of society like prosecutors or judges or lawyers, some of them are the worst offenders of the law. Some probably even buy drugs from drug dealers and use drugs. I had this one kid who stated to me that he dealt drugs and he claimed that he sold to judges and lawyers sometimes. Now, I don't want to sound self righteous and judgemental. I hate drugs and I view them as this disease that is infecting all segments of our society. It's a poison and I hate to see people ruin themselves with it. I don't think prison can cure this illness either.
I feel drugs are a medical problem, not a criminal one.

Your comments are always welcome.
 
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