A man on death row was guilty? Surprise surprise (NOT)

[RightinNYC]

I'm not saying he should be spared. He gave up his right to be a member of society in '74. What I am saying that killing him does not bring peace to anyone. Including the victims families.

Says who? You? Talk to the families of those who were murdered who then saw justice meted out upon the killers. The majority will say that helped them.

Executing him does nothing to solve the problem of murder in America.

Except, if he had been executed in 1974 after he was convicted of murder, then the 3 innocent people he had killed from prison would still be alive today.

I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. And yes, there are people on death row that are guilty of murder. So I ended on topic, happy!

And how would you feel if you knew people who were killed from inside prison by someone who had avoided death by claiming to be too old or too infirm?

 

[RightinNYC]

I imagine their are some innocent people who get locked up into prison and they never see the light of day. Wow. But I know innocent people do get demonized as criminals and put away. Imagine what kind of hell those people had to go through. I bet they learn a valuable lesson out of those experiences.

And that's why we have a justice system that falls so heavily on the presumption of innocence. Better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man to be punished.

 

[RightinNYC]

And here is another kicker. Some of the people who are suppose to be role models of society like prosecutors or judges or lawyers, some of them are the worst offenders of the law. Some probably even buy drugs from drug dealers and use drugs. I had this one kid who stated to me that he dealt drugs and he claimed that he sold to judges and lawyers sometimes. Now, I don't want to sound self righteous and judgemental. I hate drugs and I view them as this disease that is infecting all segments of our society. It's a poison and I hate to see people ruin themselves with it. I don't think prison can cure this illness either.

People from all walks of life have problems. Doesn't mean as a whole, they're all bad.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
And how would you feel if you knew people who were killed from inside prison by someone who had avoided death by claiming to be too old or too infirm?

It would be a little hard for Clarence since he is also blind and partially deaf. I'd like to say your showing a lack of humanity but so far I can't see any from you.

 

[RightinNYC]

It would be a little hard for Clarence since he is also blind and partially deaf. I'd like to say your showing a lack of humanity but so far I can't see any from you.

He had 3 people killed while he was in prison before.

What, he can't still talk and use a hearing aid? The guy isnt worth ****, and deserves to die.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
He had 3 people killed while he was in prison before.

What, he can't still talk and use a hearing aid? The guy isnt worth ****, and deserves to die.

Do you always live your life totally on emotion?

 

[RightinNYC]

Do you always live your life totally on emotion?

Who's living it totally based on emotion?

The guy was duly convicted of murder, sentenced to die, exhausted his appeals on death row, and now, completely in compliance with california law, is being sent to his death.

You're the one who wants to change that based on emotion. I'm just content with current statutes.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
Who's living it totally based on emotion?

The guy was duly convicted of murder, sentenced to die, exhausted his appeals on death row, and now, completely in compliance with california law, is being sent to his death.

You're the one who wants to change that based on emotion. I'm just content with current statutes.

Your view on capitol punishment is totally based on emotion. Why don't research the topic before trying to debate it.

 

[RightinNYC]

Your view on capitol punishment is totally based on emotion. Why don't research the topic before trying to debate it.

Uh.....you're assuming I don't know quite a bit about the topic. That's not correct.

How is it based on emotion. I support prosecution under the fullest extent of the law. In states that dont have the death penalty, i dont support vigilante executions. If a state has the death penalty, and you choose to commit multiple murders multiple times in that state, you made your own decision.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
Uh.....you're assuming I don't know quite a bit about the topic. That's not correct.

How is it based on emotion. I support prosecution under the fullest extent of the law. In states that dont have the death penalty, i dont support vigilante executions. If a state has the death penalty, and you choose to commit multiple murders multiple times in that state, you made your own decision.

If you have researched this topic, as you say you have, then you would know the shoddy evidence that was used in many cases to sentence someone to death. I can't see how you are OK with that.

 

[RightinNYC]

If you have researched this topic, as you say you have, then you would know the shoddy evidence that was used in many cases to sentence someone to death. I can't see how you are OK with that.

Regarding this case, I'm quite content with the evidence. I think arnold and i will both sleep well tonight.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
Regarding this case, I'm quite content with the evidence. I think arnold and i will both sleep well tonight.

Well I won't. I'll be up all night trashing you in the basement. Respectfully, of coarse.

 

[aps]

He had 3 people killed while he was in prison before.

What, he can't still talk and use a hearing aid? The guy isnt worth ****, and deserves to die.

You know, NYU, I totally agree. The man is scum.

Let me reiterate that I don't support the death penalty but only because, on the whole, it costs taxpayers more $$$ to have it in place because of all the appeals. In theory, though, I support it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by aps:
You know, NYU, I totally agree. The man is scum.

Let me reiterate that I don't support the death penalty but only because, on the whole, it costs taxpayers more $$$ to have it in place because of all the appeals. In theory, though, I support it.

I take it neither one of you believe in God.

 

[aps]

I take it neither one of you believe in God.

Nope. Why do you ask that? What about my statements lead you believe that I do not believe in God? I am genuinely curious.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by aps:
Nope. Why do you ask that? What about my statements lead you believe that I do not believe in God? I am genuinely curious.

Because there are a lot of so-called Christians that are for the death penalty. I consider these people to be some of the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Next to the Christians that support war. These bullshit Christians that are for the death penalty pray to St. Paul. Do you know who St. Paul was before he was St. Paul? He was Saul of Tarsus who killed more people than Charlie Manson. Yet he is considered a Saint because he repented and changed his ways.

However, guys like Tookie Williams that, maybe not repent (because he always declared his innocence), have change their ways do not get the same compassion.

But if you believe in the death penalty and are not religious then the latter does not apply to you. You just have your own problem with your own humanity to deal with. And of coarse, I know, you do not look at it this way.

 

[RightinNYC]

You know, NYU, I totally agree. The man is scum.

Let me reiterate that I don't support the death penalty but only because, on the whole, it costs taxpayers more $$$ to have it in place because of all the appeals. In theory, though, I support it.

I support it partly because of that. Only with such an exhaustive appeals process can guilt be proven beyond a doubt before imposing such a final punishment.

 

[aps]

Because there are a lot of so-called Christians that are for the death penalty. I consider these people to be some of the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Next to the Christians that support war. These bullshit Christians that are for the death penalty pray to St. Paul. Do you know who St. Paul was before he was St. Paul? He was Saul of Tarsus who killed more people than Charlie Manson. Yet he is considered a Saint because he repented and changed his ways.

However, guys like Tookie Williams that, maybe not repent (because he always declared his innocence), have change their ways do not get the same compassion.

But if you believe in the death penalty and are not religious then the latter does not apply to you. You just have your own problem with your own humanity to deal with. And of coarse, I know, you do not look at it this way.

Yes, I know what' you're saying. Tookie Williams repented AFTER he was caught and in jail. Billo, I don't give a lot of credibility to a person who repents AFTER they are caught. If someone truly has a conscience, they don't need others to find out what they did was wrong to repent. It's like Duke Cunningham. He was crying as he announced his resignation from the House, but where were those tears as he accepted bribes? Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I either accepted a bribe or killed anyone. As Tookie murdered those people, where was his conscience? To me, no matter how much a criminal repents, it's not good enough for me. If I found out, however, that leaving Tookie in jail for the rest of his life was cheaper than putting him to death, I would support that, but only on that basis.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by RightatNYU:
I support it partly because of that. Only with such an exhaustive appeals process can guilt be proven beyond a doubt before imposing such a final punishment.

Do you realize that by supporting the death penalty you are a murderer. Because the sentence is carried out in your name.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by aps:
Yes, I know what' you're saying. Tookie Williams repented AFTER he was caught and in jail. Billo, I don't give a lot of credibility to a person who repents AFTER they are caught. If someone truly has a conscience, they don't need others to find out what they did was wrong. It's like Duke Cunningham. He was crying as he announced his resignation from the House, but where were those tears as he accepted bribes? Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I either accepted a bribe or killed anyone. As Tookie murdered those people, where was his conscience? To me, no matter how much a criminal repents, it's not good enough for me. If I found out, however, that leaving Tookie in jail for the rest of his life was cheaper than putting him to death, I would support that, but only on that basis.

Three things:

1. Who cares how and when someone turns their life around as long as they do and are not the same person they once were. Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? How about 10 years ago?
2. Are you sure he committed murder? He's always maintained his innocence. And the main evidence against him was the testimony of two jailhouse bitches. These are not fine upstanding young men of the community. Yet their comments were taken as the truth just to kill a man.
3. It costs more to put someone to death than it does to lock them up for life. There is a lot of evidence to back this up.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Yes, I know what' you're saying. Tookie Williams repented AFTER he was caught and in jail. Billo, I don't give a lot of credibility to a person who repents AFTER they are caught. If someone truly has a conscience, they don't need others to find out what they did was wrong to repent. It's like Duke Cunningham. He was crying as he announced his resignation from the House, but where were those tears as he accepted bribes? Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I either accepted a bribe or killed anyone. As Tookie murdered those people, where was his conscience? To me, no matter how much a criminal repents, it's not good enough for me. If I found out, however, that leaving Tookie in jail for the rest of his life was cheaper than putting him to death, I would support that, but only on that basis.

Aps, I consider you a death penalty supporter. If you say that you support the death penalty in theory, then you are a death penalty supporter. You also say that you couldn't live with yourself for killing somebody. Your support for the death penalty which you say is in theory, which equals actual support is tantamount to supporting murder. You have already murdered many in your heart. You have given your approval to murder by supporting the death penalty. I think, that anybody is capable of anything and that includes you. I think you are capable of murder, just like any other human being. I don't want you to take that the wrong way, because it is not meant as an insult, just a mere statement of fact. Anybody is capable of anything. Not only that, even though you have not murdered directly, you become no better than the murderer when you support the death penalty. Another thing I notice about people who do support the death penalty is the one thing they must do is demonize those who are sentenced to death. The person who was sentenced to death was an it, he was a demon, he was the devil, he was a monster, he was a thing, he was an it, he was not a human. This is generally the viewpoint of people who support the death penalty. They must objectify and turn the law breaking murderer into a monster, an it, a thing. He is not human. Just a thing. A barbarian. Anybody who says they are not capable of murder is a liar or doesn't know himself or human nature very well. Even though as humans we are capable of just about anything, we must strive to hold ourselves to a higher standard and to be above some of the criminal doings of other and most important, we must not stoop to the level of the wild murdering beast that exists in all of us. Nor should we stoop to the level of those people that do succumb to the wild murdering beast that is inside all of us.

Because there are a lot of so-called Christians that are for the death penalty. I consider these people to be some of the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Next to the Christians that support war. These bullshit Christians that are for the death penalty pray to St. Paul. Do you know who St. Paul was before he was St. Paul? He was Saul of Tarsus who killed more people than Charlie Manson. Yet he is considered a Saint because he repented and changed his ways.

However, guys like Tookie Williams that, maybe not repent (because he always declared his innocence), have change their ways do not get the same compassion.

But if you believe in the death penalty and are not religious then the latter does not apply to you. You just have your own problem with your own humanity to deal with. And of coarse, I know, you do not look at it this way.

Bill' O, to me, somebody who professes to be a Christian and then turns around and is a death penalty supporter, they are not a Christian. They do not know the meaning of being a Christian if they support the death penalty.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Timmyboy:
Bill' O, to me, somebody who professes to be a Christian and then turns around and is a death penalty supporter, they are not a Christian. They do not know the meaning of being a Christian if they support the death penalty.

You got that right.

 

[RightinNYC]

Do you realize that by supporting the death penalty you are a murderer. Because the sentence is carried out in your name.

So by me saying I support it, I become a murderer.

What about those who dont care either way?

What about those who are opposed but don't do anything to stop it?

What about those who work hard to stop it, but could work harder?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by RightatNYU:
So by me saying I support it, I become a murderer.

What about those who dont care either way?

What about those who are opposed but don't do anything to stop it?

What about those who work hard to stop it, but could work harder?

For those of us unlucky enough to live in states that have the death penalty we are (no matter if we are for it, against it, do or do not do anything to stop it) all murderers whether we like it or not. Because it is always,
"The State of _______" hereby sentence you to...

 

[RightinNYC]

For those of us unlucky enough to live in states that have the death penalty we are (no matter if we are for it, against it, do or do not do anything to stop it) all murderers whether we like it or not. Because it is always,
"The State of _______" hereby sentence you to...

So whether or not I support it, I'm as much as a murderer as you?

Hell, if im damned if i do, damned if i dont, i might as well go with my beliefs.