A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east....

[cnredd]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

You people have been saying that for two and a half years now. How much longer is it going to take? Give me a number of months. And if there's still just as much carnage in Iraq at that time as there is now, would you agree that we should immediately withdraw all of our troops since they are accomplishing nothing?

This is EXACTLY the kind of post I'd expect from the American "remote control" generation...

"Hurry up and get it done in the next ten minutes or it's not worth it!..."Desperate Housewives" is coming on!"...:roll:

You complain of "two and a half years"...What you fail to realize is that "two and a half years" is, in reality, a land-speed record for setting up a government to eventually control its own destiny...

Go check up on how long we "occupied" Japan & Germany before they had a viable government...and that was without an insurgency....

Hint...Think "over twice as long" as the current situation in Iraq...

Now does that mean that we WILL be there that long?...Nope...Just pointing out that your "two and a half years" is quite small yet you complain it's too long...

Patience, young Jedi...:2wave:

 

[Canuck]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

what is touted as a major victory for bush will take 1 day to unravel as soon as America leaves
America would love to install another shaw of Iran too
I dont think we can trick the Arabes anymore

 

[Old and wise]

People like you hope their is a civil war....Anytrhing it takes to make President Bush look bad, even if it means our troops are killed.......Sad...

Nobody has to make him look bad, he is doing great all on his own.

And our troops would not be getting killed if the lying idiot had not sent them over there.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

This is EXACTLY the kind of post I'd expect from the American "remote control" generation...

"Hurry up and get it done in the next ten minutes or it's not worth it!..."Desperate Housewives" is coming on!"...:roll:

You complain of "two and a half years"...What you fail to realize is that "two and a half years" is, in reality, a land-speed record for setting up a government to eventually control its own destiny...

Go check up on how long we "occupied" Japan & Germany before they had a viable government...and that was without an insurgency....

Hint...Think "over twice as long" as the current situation in Iraq...

Now does that mean that we WILL be there that long?...Nope...Just pointing out that your "two and a half years" is quite small yet you complain it's too long...

Patience, young Jedi...:2wave:

Well I not an American "remote control" generation or even American, but I would like to reply anyway from another perspective. Because I don't think it's only American "remote control" generation that think two years of fighting is to long, but also the people of Iraq. So maybee it mostly people that don't have to the live in Iraq as civilians or don't care about the price of war for the people of Iraq, that think 2,5 years is not a long time.

 

[Kandahar]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

This is EXACTLY the kind of post I'd expect from the American "remote control" generation...

"Hurry up and get it done in the next ten minutes or it's not worth it!..."Desperate Housewives" is coming on!"...:roll:

You complain of "two and a half years"...What you fail to realize is that "two and a half years" is, in reality, a land-speed record for setting up a government to eventually control its own destiny...

Go check up on how long we "occupied" Japan & Germany before they had a viable government...and that was without an insurgency....

Hint...Think "over twice as long" as the current situation in Iraq...

Now does that mean that we WILL be there that long?...Nope...Just pointing out that your "two and a half years" is quite small yet you complain it's too long...

Patience, young Jedi...:2wave:

The difference is we were making real progress toward establishing an independent, democratic government in Japan and Germany every step of the way. Aside from having slightly more electricity/water, Iraq is not significantly better off today than it was two years ago. Sure, there may have been elections (which were boycotted by the main group behind the insurgency), and a referendum on a constitution (which was rejected by the main group behind the insurgency but passed anyway), but the insurgency is still just as strong as ever.

Two and a half years might not have been a long time to go in Japan and Germany, because we had actual progress to show for it and because the occupation was just. Two and a half years is a very long time to go in a country where we are making little if any progress, where we shouldn't be in the first place.

 

[Iriemon]

Sorry the left got away with that crap in Nam in that we cut and run.......Not going to happen with this president......We will stay the course until the job is completed there, no matter how much you on the left whine......

There is a little diffenrce in your scenario........We are liberators, not occupiers...........Occupiers will never leave........We will leave the moment the duly elected government of Iraq asks us to do so....

I see -- there is no civil war, just a small band of foreign terrorists, but we have to maintain 175,000 troops there because otherwise the US installed government will collapse.

 

[Iriemon]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

They hate this president so much that even if it means our brave people die in Iraq they don't mind because it makes the President look bad.......

Oh yeah, they support the troops though...:roll:

How will troops die if they are brought back to America?

Troops are dying because the Bush Admin and their supporters cannot admit a mistake. He cannot withdraw the troops -- if he does the US installed Iraqi government will collapse and the entire farse will be labelled the biggest foreign policy disaster probably ever. He will never admit mistakes were made, and will keep US forces there getting killed and maimed because of his pride. Troops will not be withdrawn until other president is elected, and then the Bush apologists can blame the new president.

Troops die so they don't have to admit a mistake.

Oh yeah, they support the troops though...:roll:

 

[Iriemon]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

The date is when the Iraqi police and army can handle security in their country............As an Iraqi battalion stands up a U.S. battalion will stand down..............

Under this President we will never cut and run like we did in nam........

Less see, after 2.5 years there is one 700 man battalion ready to stand up on its own, they need 175000 to maintain order, so we should be able to start withdrawing the troops in the year 2630.

 

[Iriemon]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

This is EXACTLY the kind of post I'd expect from the American "remote control" generation...

"Hurry up and get it done in the next ten minutes or it's not worth it!..."Desperate Housewives" is coming on!"...:roll:

You complain of "two and a half years"...What you fail to realize is that "two and a half years" is, in reality, a land-speed record for setting up a government to eventually control its own destiny...

Go check up on how long we "occupied" Japan & Germany before they had a viable government...and that was without an insurgency....

Hint...Think "over twice as long" as the current situation in Iraq...

Now does that mean that we WILL be there that long?...Nope...Just pointing out that your "two and a half years" is quite small yet you complain it's too long...

Patience, young Jedi...:2wave:

It is because our leaders told us they'd be surprised if US troops were there 6 months. Now 2 1/2 years later we can't even get a date or timefram when the "job will be done." 6 months ago the insurgents were in their "last throes". For some of us, after the 3rd or 4th or 10th "mistake" we start thinking, enough of the BS.

 

[Iriemon]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

The difference is we were making real progress toward establishing an independent, democratic government in Japan and Germany every step of the way. Aside from having slightly more electricity/water, Iraq is not significantly better off today than it was two years ago. Sure, there may have been elections (which were boycotted by the main group behind the insurgency), and a referendum on a constitution (which was rejected by the main group behind the insurgency but passed anyway), but the insurgency is still just as strong as ever.

Two and a half years might not have been a long time to go in Japan and Germany, because we had actual progress to show for it and because the occupation was just. Two and a half years is a very long time to go in a country where we are making little if any progress, where we shouldn't be in the first place.

The other difference is we went to war with Japan and Germany because they were the agressor nations. They attacked us first. We had a right to defend ourselves and there was a legitimacy and justification in our action that most people can understood.

In the Iraq war, we have no legitimacy, we were not attacked, we invaded based on mistakes (or worse) made using intellegence, and we could not even get a consensus of other nations to agree that war was necessary.

The Iraqis will never accept us as legitimate or justified occupiers. We have disenfranchised the Sunnis who will never accept our government. The Shiites and Kurds put up with us because we are arming them, so they can consolidate power.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

The difference is we were making real progress toward establishing an independent, democratic government in Japan and Germany every step of the way. Aside from having slightly more electricity/water, Iraq is not significantly better off today than it was two years ago. Sure, there may have been elections (which were boycotted by the main group behind the insurgency), and a referendum on a constitution (which was rejected by the main group behind the insurgency but passed anyway), but the insurgency is still just as strong as ever.

Two and a half years might not have been a long time to go in Japan and Germany, because we had actual progress to show for it and because the occupation was just. Two and a half years is a very long time to go in a country where we are making little if any progress, where we shouldn't be in the first place.

Your very young but I have a flash for you.......There was a lot of violence in Japan and Germany after WW2........

 

[Kandahar]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Your very young but I have a flash for you.......There was a lot of violence in Japan and Germany after WW2........

Actually, no, there wasn't. Don't make claims you can't support.

How many American soldiers died in Japan/Germany following WW2? How many American soldiers have died in Iraq following the toppling of the Baathist regime?

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Actually, no, there wasn't. Don't make claims you can't support.

How many American soldiers died in Japan/Germany following WW2? How many American soldiers have died in Iraq following the toppling of the Baathist regime?

Do you even know what the word violence means??????

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Do you even know what the word violence means??????

Navy, don't answer a question with a question. If you don't know what to think, ask your C/O what to think like a good soldier.

 

[tecoyah]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

I very much hope this move in Iraq works...and that the constitution is accepted and revised as needed. This is unfortunatley the only way we will ever get out. As far as civil war, there seems to be a Low Level civil war in place there now, but we are thus far keeping it from becoming full blown.
The violence in Japan and Germany was miniscule in comparison to what we have now, primarily because they were both up against the rest of the world, and surrounded/overwhelmed by the victors. This is not the case in Iraq, as they are surronded by nations that would love to see the United States fail in its mission. This is a terrible war, and the physical violence is but a part of the REAL issue.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Navy, don't answer a question with a question. If you don't know what to think, ask your C/O what to think like a good soldier.

The navy does not have soldiers sonny....They have sailors........

 

[Wyldinstinct]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Navy, don't answer a question with a question. If you don't know what to think, ask your C/O what to think like a good soldier.

:damn :rofl

 

[Kandahar]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Do you even know what the word violence means??????

Apparently not. If you're going to claim that Japan/Germany had "a lot" of violence following WWII (the implication being that they a comparable amount to what we now face in Iraq), please explain to me how you're measuring that violence, if not by the number of American deaths. And please explain why your standard is a better criteria than the number of American deaths, aside from the fact that it simply doesn't suit your argument to use the most obvious criteria.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Apparently not. If you're going to claim that Japan/Germany had "a lot" of violence following WWII (the implication being that they a comparable amount to what we now face in Iraq), please explain to me how you're measuring that violence, if not by the number of American deaths. And please explain why your standard is a better criteria than the number of American deaths, aside from the fact that it simply doesn't suit your argument to use the most obvious criteria.

To try and compare a war still going on in Iraq to WW2 after the war was over is illogical.........Lets see how many Americand die in Iraq after the war is over.............If you want to compare deaths during the war in Iraq with deaths in WW2 you lose big time my friend.......

 

[Kandahar]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

To try and compare a war still going on in Iraq to WW2 after the war was over is illogical.........Lets see how many Americand die in Iraq after the war is over.............If you want to compare deaths during the war in Iraq with deaths in WW2 you lose big time my friend.......

So we don't start counting the deaths until the war is over. And we know the war is over when there aren't anymore deaths. Yeah, that makes sense.

I love how you tried to compare this to the post-war period after WWII, then as soon as you realized that comparison wasn't going to hold, it immediately became a comparison to WWII itself.

The war against the Iraqi regime ended two years ago. What we're involved in now IS the post-war period, and we have quite an insurgency to fight. Your president even said so.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

So we don't start counting the deaths until the war is over. And we know the war is over when there aren't anymore deaths. Yeah, that makes sense.

I love how you tried to compare this to the post-war period after WWII, then as soon as you realized that comparison wasn't going to hold, it immediately became a comparison to WWII itself.

The war against the Iraqi regime ended two years ago. What we're involved in now IS the post-war period, and we have quite an insurgency to fight. Your president even said so.

Its only fair that if your going to count the deaths you have to count them the same way......As and example at the lamdings on Nomandy in 1 day 6,000Americans lost their lives........In almost 3 years in Iraq we have lost no where near that count..

I love how you don't want to compare the casualties of the 2 wars.......

We are in a war on terror in Iraq.........it is still going on...........

So your not from this country? Why do you not list where your from? Are you ashamed of your country?

 

[OdgenTugbyGlub]

Its only fair that if your going to count the deaths you have to count them the same way......As and example at the lamdings on Nomandy in 1 day 6,000Americans lost their lives........In almost 3 years in Iraq we have lost no where near that count..

I love how you don't want to compare the casualties of the 2 wars.......

Its because the wars AREN'T comparable Navy Pride. Its like comparing a hostage situation shootout with a bank robbery in which the robber keeps getting punched in the nuts. Not the same.

 

[Navy Pride]

Its because the wars AREN'T comparable Navy Pride. Its like comparing a hostage situation shootout with a bank robbery in which the robber keeps getting punched in the nuts. Not the same.

He brought up the comparisons after WW2 not me...Well you can't compare that becasue this war is not over.........All you can compare are the casualties during the 2 wars..........

I know you don't like to compare it that way though.:roll:

 

[Old and wise]

Re: A huge victory for President Bush and establishing a democracy in the mid-east...

Your very young but I have a flash for you.......There was a lot of violence in Japan and Germany after WW2........

Where the hell did you get that? I don't know about Japan, but I was born and brought up in Germany and I lived there until 1949. There was NO violence in Germany after WW2. We damn near starved to death after the American troops arrived but there was no violence. Please get your story straight.

 

[Navy Pride]

I don't pretend to speak for the people of Iraq but all I know is under threat of death a hell of a lot more of them turned out to vote percentage wise then we have ever had in this country........

Some of you might think that the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam and his scumbag sons but I truly believe the Iraqi people don't believe that.......They yearn for freedom and to live their lives in peace and harmony.........

Everything going on there is blown out of proportion by the media here....The bad things that happened are reported over and over again but you rarely hear about the good things happening there.......That is the sad part..........

I don't know what is going to happen there but at least I believe we are giving them a chance.......I mourn for every brave American who has given their life to accomplish that endeavor.......May they rest in peace and be with God forever............

When the Iraqi Army and police are able to handle the security there we will leave........I truly believe Iraq will be a better place.........

Just my 2 cents.........