A Gun control experiment?

[Hard Truth]

Let's skip the constitutional legal issues and just discuss whether this is a good idea for an experiement?


"....Why not have a test between the two largest states in the nation, California and Texas?

California implements a ban on all handguns and most rifles for three years (with a mandatory lock up of existing weapons, searches at state lines, zero carry permits, and stiff prison terms for anyone who possesses and illegal gun or commits a crime with any firearm). Make the state a poster child for everything gun-control advocates want.

Texas adopts open carry, no limits on types of guns and ammunition, no checks, nothing — a complete free market with the “armed and polite populace” making the rules. The NRA gets its way in the Lone Star state.

Then let’s see who has a lower rate of gun violence, a lower rate of murder and aggravated assault involving a weapon, the fewest mass killings. Let’s see if the government of California becomes intolerably oppressive. Let’s see what works...."

A modest proposal: Let's see how gun control (and no gun control) actually works | 48 hills48 hills

 

[ttwtt78640]

Let's skip the constitutional legal issues and just discuss whether this is a good idea for an experiement?


"....Why not have a test between the two largest states in the nation, California and Texas?

California implements a ban on all handguns and most rifles for three years (with a mandatory lock up of existing weapons, searches at state lines, zero carry permits, and stiff prison terms for anyone who possesses and illegal gun or commits a crime with any firearm). Make the state a poster child for everything gun-control advocates want.

Texas adopts open carry, no limits on types of guns and ammunition, no checks, nothing — a complete free market with the “armed and polite populace” making the rules. The NRA gets its way in the Lone Star state.

Then let’s see who has a lower rate of gun violence, a lower rate of murder and aggravated assault involving a weapon, the fewest mass killings. Let’s see if the government of California becomes intolerably oppressive. Let’s see what works...."

A modest proposal: Let's see how gun control (and no gun control) actually works | 48 hills48 hills

Why not just look at Chicago and DC that are as close to gun free zones as the constitution permits.

 

[BretJ]

Let's skip the constitutional legal issues and just discuss whether this is a good idea for an experiement?


"....Why not have a test between the two largest states in the nation, California and Texas?

California implements a ban on all handguns and most rifles for three years (with a mandatory lock up of existing weapons, searches at state lines, zero carry permits, and stiff prison terms for anyone who possesses and illegal gun or commits a crime with any firearm). Make the state a poster child for everything gun-control advocates want.

Texas adopts open carry, no limits on types of guns and ammunition, no checks, nothing — a complete free market with the “armed and polite populace” making the rules. The NRA gets its way in the Lone Star state.

Then let’s see who has a lower rate of gun violence, a lower rate of murder and aggravated assault involving a weapon, the fewest mass killings. Let’s see if the government of California becomes intolerably oppressive. Let’s see what works...."

A modest proposal: Let's see how gun control (and no gun control) actually works | 48 hills48 hills

That experiment has already been done on a much, much larger scale.

Tell you what, we could go for it but with an addition, Texas also implements a policy that imprisons anyone in anyway affiliated with a gang or buses them to California. After all, they will no longer be a threat if they cannot possess a firearm in California correct?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Why not just look at Chicago and DC that are as close to gun free zones as the constitution permits.

The Constitution does not permit any gun control laws at all. Every gun control law that exists in Chicago, DC, or anywhere else in this nation exists in blatant violation of the Constitution.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The Constitution does not permit any gun control laws at all. Every gun control law that exists in Chicago, DC, or anywhere else in this nation exists in blatant violation of the Constitution.

That is the theory but, in practice, the only limits are the voluntary opinions of the SCOTUS and the willingness of the gov't to obey/enforce them. Obviously there are many federal, state and local laws that restrict the 2A now and more will be added over time.

 

[TurtleDude]

I have a much better proposed experiment. all the anti gun types who

1) don't think people should be able to carry weapons on the streets

2) own weapons for self defense


should post signs on their property proclaiming that their premises are unarmed

and those same people should post on their cars and their person, notices that they are not carrying weapons.

We shall see what the mugging and robbery rates are for such people after say 5 years of this experiment

 

[CalGun]

Look up how many so call "assault rifles" and to be banned hand guns were sold in CA just the last 5 years alone. Hence your expirament is an irrational and impossible gesture with no reality possible. I dare say too many would take up arms against it and sadly I trained a bunch of them and couldn't disagree with them. BTW they are cops.

Let's skip the constitutional legal issues and just discuss whether this is a good idea for an experiement?


"....Why not have a test between the two largest states in the nation, California and Texas?

California implements a ban on all handguns and most rifles for three years (with a mandatory lock up of existing weapons, searches at state lines, zero carry permits, and stiff prison terms for anyone who possesses and illegal gun or commits a crime with any firearm). Make the state a poster child for everything gun-control advocates want.

Texas adopts open carry, no limits on types of guns and ammunition, no checks, nothing — a complete free market with the “armed and polite populace” making the rules. The NRA gets its way in the Lone Star state.

Then let’s see who has a lower rate of gun violence, a lower rate of murder and aggravated assault involving a weapon, the fewest mass killings. Let’s see if the government of California becomes intolerably oppressive. Let’s see what works...."

A modest proposal: Let's see how gun control (and no gun control) actually works | 48 hills48 hills

 

[JasperL]

Why not just look at Chicago and DC that are as close to gun free zones as the constitution permits.

Or you could just compare NYC (homicide rate 5.1/100k) and Dallas (12.4)!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Or you could just compare NYC (homicide rate 5.1/100k) and Dallas (12.4)!

Or Texas (4.4/100k) and New Jersey (4.4/100K).

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

 

[JasperL]

The Constitution does not permit any gun control laws at all. Every gun control law that exists in Chicago, DC, or anywhere else in this nation exists in blatant violation of the Constitution.

LOL. That was a joke, right?

 

[Sababa]

Why not just look at Chicago and DC that are as close to gun free zones as the constitution permits.

because that won't take into account the large number of easily obtained illegal guns and legal guns purchased a few miles away.

 

[ttwtt78640]

because that won't take into account the large number of easily obtained illegal guns and legal guns purchased a few miles away.

It does take into account that criminals, by definition, will simply ignore the law. Law is simply a rule while order requires the enforcement of that rule.

 

[TurtleDude]

because that won't take into account the large number of easily obtained illegal guns and legal guns purchased a few miles away.

figure that out? you sort of destroyed your own rant

 

[Crimefree]

That is the theory but, in practice, the only limits are the voluntary opinions of the SCOTUS and the willingness of the gov't to obey/enforce them. Obviously there are many federal, state and local laws that restrict the 2A now and more will be added over time.

Do you honestly believe the constitution is the plaything of a government agency?

While the constitution may well have been written as law and INSTRUCTIONS to government do you think the founding fathers suddenly went senile and handed arbitration over to government.

These are OUR RIGHTS. We protect them. Government or any other agency does not do that for us. The reason we have the 2nd is so we can do our duty and responsibility. WTF do they teach these days in government controlled schools?

 

[Crimefree]

because that won't take into account the large number of easily obtained illegal guns and legal guns purchased a few miles away.

You are making an argument based on guns being the cause of something, what is it?

 

[Wiseone]

Or Texas (4.4/100k) and New Jersey (4.4/100K).

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

Or you could just compare NYC (homicide rate 5.1/100k) and Dallas (12.4)!

Its almost as if there's other factors besides the local gun laws.

 

[Crimefree]

Its almost as if there's other factors besides the local gun laws.

Apparently the inability to show a causal link is no deterrent to wild speculation and belief it exists.

 

[Visbek]

Leaving aside the Constitutional issues, you'd still have the problem that you cannot possibly seal state borders well enough to make the policy practical. New York has this problem -- people buy guns in Virginia, often with straw buyers, and transport them to NYC.

Hawaii is your only option. But even if we did such an experiment, I doubt anyone would be convinced by the results.

 

[TurtleDude]

Apparently the inability to show a causal link is no deterrent to wild speculation and belief it exists.

It is a faith based belief that holds that laws that are directed towards honest people will actually impede the lawlessness of criminals.

 

[TurtleDude]

Leaving aside the Constitutional issues, you'd still have the problem that you cannot possibly seal state borders well enough to make the policy practical. New York has this problem -- people buy guns in Virginia, often with straw buyers, and transport them to NYC.

Hawaii is your only option. But even if we did such an experiment, I doubt anyone would be convinced by the results.

but such actions are illegal. It is illegal under federal and state law for a citizen of NY to buy a HANDGUN in Virginia (or any other state save NY). It is illegal to be a straw purchaser punishable by up to ten years in federal prison as well. So tell us, what do we do-make it more illegal? gun restrictionists think its proper to ban 1000000 honest people buying guns if it might deter a few scum bags. Me, I say punish people when they violate substantive laws with substantial punishment and stop hassling honest people with crap like "magazine restrictions" waiting periods, registration and other crap that doesn't even apply to criminals

 

[Wiseone]

It is a faith based belief that holds that laws that are directed towards honest people will actually impede the lawlessness of criminals.

Its also faith based that the lack of laws impedes the lawlessness of criminals

 

[TurtleDude]

Its also faith based that the lack of laws impedes the lawlessness of criminals

no one says that though. No one is against laws that actually punish harmful intentional misuse of firearms. what we oppose are those who push for moronic laws that ONLY target lawful gun owners. People who cannot own guns: well magazine limits, waiting periods, safe storage laws, Machine gun or "assault weapon" bans aren't impacted by those.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Do you honestly believe the constitution is the plaything of a government agency?

While the constitution may well have been written as law and INSTRUCTIONS to government do you think the founding fathers suddenly went senile and handed arbitration over to government.

These are OUR RIGHTS. We protect them. Government or any other agency does not do that for us. The reason we have the 2nd is so we can do our duty and responsibility. WTF do they teach these days in government controlled schools?

Try walking down the street with a visible, holstered handgun in Texas.

 

[Crimefree]

Try walking down the street with a visible, holstered handgun in Texas.

Are you saying indoctrinated people take precedence to our rights. Or do you simply wish to agree with the majority?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Are you saying indoctrinated people take precedence to our rights. Or do you simply wish to agree with the majority?

I wish to stay out of jail and keep my limitted right to bear arms. This is how incremental "reasonable restrictions" work - they restrict the 2A "just a bit more" at the state/local level.