A Grand juror in the Darren Wilson case is suing the prosecutor

[Unitedwestand13]

Here is the details:

A grand juror is suing St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch in an effort to speak out on what happened in the Darren Wilson case. Under typical circumstances, grand jurors are prohibited by law from discussing cases they were involved in.

The grand juror, referred to only as "Grand Juror Doe" in the lawsuit, takes issue with how McCulloch characterized the case. McCulloch released evidence presented to the grand jury and publicly discussed the case after the grand jury decided not to indict Wilson, then a Ferguson police officer, in the shooting death of Michael Brown, an 18-year-old African American.

“In [the grand juror]’s view, the current information available about the grand jurors’ views is not entirely accurate — especially the implication that all grand jurors believed that there was no support for any charges,” the lawsuit says. (A grand jury's decision does not have to be unanimous.)

“Moreover, the public characterization of the grand jurors’ view of witnesses and evidence does not accord with [Doe]’s own,” the lawsuit continued. “From [the grand juror]’s perspective, the investigation of Wilson had a stronger focus on the victim than in other cases presented to the grand jury.” Doe also believes the legal standards were conveyed in a “muddled” and “untimely” manner to the grand jury.

In the lawsuit filed Monday in federal court, the American Civil Liberties Union of Missouri argues that this case is unique and that the usual reasons for requiring the jurors to maintain secrecy should not apply.

In this specific case, “any interests furthered by maintaining grand jury secrecy are outweighed by the interests secured by the First Amendment,” the lawsuit says, adding that allowing the juror to speak would contribute to a discussion on race in America.

As the grand juror points out in the lawsuit, the Wilson case was handled in a very different manner than other grand juries. Instead of recommending a charge, McCulloch's office presented thousands of pages worth of evidence and testimony before the grand jury. At one point, McCulloch's spokesman characterized the grand jury as co-investigators.

Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

 

[tres borrachos]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

Sounds like GJ Doe didn't vote with the majority and is mad about it and wants to make some money off his/her decision.

I wish him/her luck.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

For those interested in the legal details:

Grand Juror Doe Complaint 1-5-15

 

[Declan]

Grand Juror Doe wants a book deal.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Grand Juror Doe wants a book deal.

and you know this how?

You realize that's libel right?

at least follow the ****ing rules and post what you know instead of wild, meaningless speculation. The right is as bad as the left on law and order issues, anything a cop or a prosecutor does is perfect, no rules ever get broken, and there are no mistakes....just like the progressives claim of Obama's perfection. There really is no difference.

 

[tres borrachos]

and you know this how?

You realize that's libel right?

at least follow the ****ing rules and post what you know instead of wild, meaningless speculation. The right is as bad as the left on law and order issues, anything a cop or a prosecutor does is perfect, no rules ever get broken, and there are no mistakes....just like the progressives claim of Obama's perfection. There really is no difference.

Obama's perfection?

What in your opinion does Grand Juror Doe want to accomplish?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Given this and the fact that McCullough admitted to knowingly allowing people to offer false testimony, this is a true ****storm. I truly hope the federal government does a thorough investigation of this case and McCullough in general. What a cluster****.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Obama's perfection?

What in your opinion does Grand Juror Doe want to accomplish?

To hold the prosecutor accountable for his actions.

 

[Flamethrower]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

While the ACLU is at it, have St. Michael of Ferguson's youth criminal records unsealed.

 

[soot]

Also sounds like the grand jury was a cluster**** that was manipulated toward the verdict it handed down.

Now... that is not to say that the grand jury would have handed down a different verdict if the presentation of evidence hadn't been conducted in such a way as to contrive a desired outcome.

But, since it was essentially a kangaroo court to begin with we'll never know.

At least we can force the government to release ALL records of the grand jury which are still available, which is essentially what the lawsuit seeks to force.

 

[soot]

Grand Juror Doe wants a book deal.

Maybe.

But if you read the complaint this plaintiff isn't just asking for his/her gag order to be removed.

(S)he is asking that the order be removed from all jurors and that the government be required to make public all records related to the grand jury, such that records of the whole proceeding become public record, not just the small part of it that the prosecutor chooses to release.

The juror is claiming that something very different occurred in the courtroom than what the prosecutor has led the public to believe went on.

Even based on what the prosecutor has made public we know that the grand jury was a clown show and a travesty of justice, so I can only imagine what will come out of the prosecutor is held to account.

Far as I'm concerned, less government control and more government transparency is a good thing.

So I see no real problem.

 

[fmw]

I would guess the case will be thrown out of court. The juror has no standing, no financial loss.

 

[tres borrachos]

To hold the prosecutor accountable for his actions.

I read the lawsuit. It doesn't imply that the prosecutor violated any laws, unless I missed it. And it appears that GJ3 wants to get his/her message out that not all of the Grand Jurors voted to not indict Wilson, which I didn't think was ever presented any other way. The prosecutor never said it was unanimous, did he? GJ3 also wants to be able to speak publicly about his/her decision even though he/she is legally obliged to not do it.

 

[Declan]

and you know this how?

Because I wasn't born yesterday

You realize that's libel right?

No it isn't, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

at least follow the ****ing rules and post what you know instead of wild, meaningless speculation.

Doesn't seem to stop you the post I am replying to being Exhibit 1.

The right is as bad as the left on law and order issues, anything a cop or a prosecutor does is perfect, no rules ever get broken, and there are no mistakes....just like the progressives claim of Obama's perfection. There really is no difference.

Quite the non-sequitur and irony all wrapped up into one right there. :lamo

 

[tres borrachos]

Maybe.

But if you read the complaint this plaintiff isn't just asking for his/her gag order to be removed.

(S)he is asking that the order be removed from all jurors and that the government be required to make public all records related to the grand jury, such that records of the whole proceeding become public record, not just the small part of it that the prosecutor chooses to release.

The juror is claiming that something very different occurred in the courtroom than what the prosecutor has led the public to believe went on.

Even based on what the prosecutor has made public we know that the grand jury was a clown show and a travesty of justice, so I can only imagine what will come out of the prosecutor is held to account.

Far as I'm concerned, less government control and more government transparency is a good thing.

So I see no real problem.

We know this? Who is this collective "we" you speak of? I don't know that it was a travesty of justice nor a clown show. What evidence do you have that Officer Wilson should have been indicted specifically?

 

[Kobie]

While the ACLU is at it, have St. Michael of Ferguson's youth criminal records unsealed.

How are they relevant to the incident in question?

 

[soot]

We know this? Who is this collective "we" you speak of?

Ummm... the subset of people in the world who haven't buried their heads in the sand about the mock grand jury McCulloch tried to pass of as "justice"?

I don't know that it was a travesty of justice nor a clown show.

Yeah, well...

What evidence do you have that Officer Wilson should have been indicted specifically?

I don't have any such evidence, I never claimed to have any such evidence, and I even indicated above that if the grand jury had been run like, you know, a real grand jury, the possibility certainly exists that Wilson would have been exonerated anyway.

I'm not saying that Officer Wilson is guilty or that he should have been indicted.

All I'm saying is that the grand jury made a mockery of justice, and that as a result we'll never know whether or not Officer Wilson would/should have been indicted.

Based on what I know of the grand jury, and understand that what I do know about the grand jury proceedings is necessarily predicated on things that Robert McCulloch either said or released, it was a clown show.

McCulloch and his team knowingly presented false witness testimony to the grand jury; McCulloch admitted that during a December 19 radio interview.

Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Kathi Alizadeh didn't seem to have any real idea what the law was, what the conduct of a grand jury should have been, or she was deliberately behaving in a confusing and obfuscatory manner. One example:



I know that if it were my kid laying there dead, I'd expect more from the government than, essentially, "Ummm... I have no idea what's going on, and I don't really know how to instruct you".

McCulloch consistently asked questions of witnesses that were leading toward an exoneration of Officer Wilson. This includes allowing Officer Wilson to testify in his own defense for over four hours with essentially no effective cross examination from McCulloch acting as a prosecutor and to the contrary, including questions that led Wilson toward establishing his innocence.

Ultimately, McCulloch didn't run the proceeding as a prosecutor seeking an indictment, he ran it as a lawyer trying whether or not Wilson's shooting was legal and in self defense.

To make this clear, I don't know whether or not Officer Wilson's shooting of Brown was legal and in self defense. I'm not arguing that it wasn't. That isn't at question here (at least not by me, at any rate, and as far as it goes I suspect that it was a good shoot).

What I'm arguing is that based upon the evidence that McCulloch choose to present, and the manner in which he choose to run the grand jury, Officer Wilson's acquittal was a foregone conclusion.

The prosecutor wasn't seeking an indictment - he was seeking an acquittal.

And that's just not the way our criminal justice system is supposed to work.

 

[tres borrachos]

Ummm... the subset of people in the world who haven't buried their heads in the sand about the mock grand jury McCulloch tried to pass of as "justice"?



Yeah, well...



I don't have any such evidence, I never claimed to have any such evidence, and I even indicated above that if the grand jury had been run like, you know, a real grand jury, the possibility certainly exists that Wilson would have been exonerated anyway.

I'm not saying that Officer Wilson is guilty or that he should have been indicted.

All I'm saying is that the grand jury made a mockery of justice, and that as a result we'll never know whether or not Officer Wilson would/should have been indicted.

Based on what I know of the grand jury, and understand that what I do know about the grand jury proceedings is necessarily predicated on things that Robert McCulloch either said or released, it was a clown show.

McCulloch and his team knowingly presented false witness testimony to the grand jury; McCulloch admitted that during a December 19 radio interview.

Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Kathi Alizadeh didn't seem to have any real idea what the law was, what the conduct of a grand jury should have been, or she was deliberately behaving in a confusing and obfuscatory manner. One example:

View attachment 67178434

I know that if it were my kid laying there dead, I'd expect more from the government than, essentially, "Ummm... I have no idea what's going on, and I don't really know how to instruct you".

McCulloch consistently asked questions of witnesses that were leading toward an exoneration of Officer Wilson. This includes allowing Officer Wilson to testify in his own defense for over four hours with essentially no effective cross examination from McCulloch acting as a prosecutor and to the contrary, including questions that led Wilson toward establishing his innocence.

Ultimately, McCulloch didn't run the proceeding as a prosecutor seeking an indictment, he ran it as a lawyer trying whether or not Wilson's shooting was legal and in self defense.

To make this clear, I don't know whether or not Officer Wilson's shooting of Brown was legal and in self defense. I'm not arguing that it wasn't. That isn't at question here (at least not by me, at any rate, and as far as it goes I suspect that it was a good shoot).

What I'm arguing is that based upon the evidence that McCulloch choose to present, and the manner in which he choose to run the grand jury, Officer Wilson's acquittal was a foregone conclusion.

The prosecutor wasn't seeking an indictment - he was seeking an acquittal.

And that's just not the way our criminal justice system is supposed to work.

So in other words, you have no evidence that Wilson committed a crime. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[LowDown]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

This is going nowhere.

 

[LowDown]

Ummm... the subset of people in the world who haven't buried their heads in the sand about the mock grand jury McCulloch tried to pass of as "justice"?



Yeah, well...



I don't have any such evidence, I never claimed to have any such evidence, and I even indicated above that if the grand jury had been run like, you know, a real grand jury, the possibility certainly exists that Wilson would have been exonerated anyway.

I'm not saying that Officer Wilson is guilty or that he should have been indicted.

All I'm saying is that the grand jury made a mockery of justice, and that as a result we'll never know whether or not Officer Wilson would/should have been indicted.

Based on what I know of the grand jury, and understand that what I do know about the grand jury proceedings is necessarily predicated on things that Robert McCulloch either said or released, it was a clown show.

McCulloch and his team knowingly presented false witness testimony to the grand jury; McCulloch admitted that during a December 19 radio interview.

Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Kathi Alizadeh didn't seem to have any real idea what the law was, what the conduct of a grand jury should have been, or she was deliberately behaving in a confusing and obfuscatory manner. One example:

View attachment 67178434

I know that if it were my kid laying there dead, I'd expect more from the government than, essentially, "Ummm... I have no idea what's going on, and I don't really know how to instruct you".

McCulloch consistently asked questions of witnesses that were leading toward an exoneration of Officer Wilson. This includes allowing Officer Wilson to testify in his own defense for over four hours with essentially no effective cross examination from McCulloch acting as a prosecutor and to the contrary, including questions that led Wilson toward establishing his innocence.

Ultimately, McCulloch didn't run the proceeding as a prosecutor seeking an indictment, he ran it as a lawyer trying whether or not Wilson's shooting was legal and in self defense.

To make this clear, I don't know whether or not Officer Wilson's shooting of Brown was legal and in self defense. I'm not arguing that it wasn't. That isn't at question here (at least not by me, at any rate, and as far as it goes I suspect that it was a good shoot).

What I'm arguing is that based upon the evidence that McCulloch choose to present, and the manner in which he choose to run the grand jury, Officer Wilson's acquittal was a foregone conclusion.

The prosecutor wasn't seeking an indictment - he was seeking an acquittal.

And that's just not the way our criminal justice system is supposed to work.

The prosecutor has discretion considering what to present to the Grand Jury. This is a silly lawsuit from silly people.

 

[Mycroft]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

adding that allowing the juror to speak would contribute to a discussion on race in America.

This idiot...and the ACLU...even played the race card. Pathetic!

 

[JumpinJack]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

So...this is really the ACLU suing for the release of hte juror's statements? How would that ordinary person who served as a Grand Juror know that "the Wilson case was handled in a very different manner than other grand juries"? He wouldn't.

The secrecy should be maintained, for bad or for good. It's the ultimate good of the Grand Jury process that should be maintained. Jurors have to know that their discussions and thoughts and identities are privileged and not for the public. Once any of them starts talking, the flood gates would be open, esp. in a case like this, and there's no telling what he'll talk about. Other jurors, the discussions they had. Things that are privileged.

He criticizes the prosecutor for characterizing the grand jury as co-investigators. That's not incorrect, really. It's just another way of stating what the grand jury does. They sift through all the evidence, determine what's credible (to them), ask questions if they want. They participate and decide if there's enough evidence for an indictment on the charges.

It was not implied that all grand jurors reached the same conclusion unanimously. Not to me, anyway. The statement "The Grand Jury decided...." is the way it's normally pronounced. When the required # of jurors agree, that IS the Grand Jury's decision. Just like when the U.S. Supreme Court decides a case 5 to 4. It becomes the U.S. S.Ct.'s decision.

I suspect, as another poster suggested, that this juror is going along with the ACLU so that he can make some money off the case, as well as pursue an agenda.

 

[Excon]

Here is the details:



Grand Juror Sues McCulloch, Says He Mischaracterized The Wilson Case | St. Louis Public Radio

5 hours before yours.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-a...uri-police-shooting-case-sues-prosecutor.html

 

[Excon]

Given this and the fact that McCullough admitted to knowingly allowing people to offer false testimony, this is a true ****storm. I truly hope the federal government does a thorough investigation of this case and McCullough in general. What a cluster****.

What a ridiculous comment.
There is no **** storm here.
He gave the GJ everything, even the liars. That is far more than appropriate, as it leaves it up to them to believe that which they want in coming to a determination if there is sufficient evidence or not to charge.
Funny thing here is that no one is complaining about Dorian Johnson the known liar testifying or complaining about the lies he told or the obvious lies told by the other witnesses who were against Wilson.
Only those from the one witness of which it was more than evident she had fabricated her account, only because the fabrication was in Wilson's favor. :doh Even thought it wasn't really in his favor because it was evident it was fabricated. D'oh!

Absolutely nothing is going to come of this in regards to any malfeasance. As there was none.

 

[Flamethrower]

How are they relevant to the incident in question?

Well, that's the main thing about the Fergie case.

A cop defending his life from a hardcore thug with an obvious criminal background. His lying thug friends and witnesses no sane person would think credible.

This shooting should have gone to the police review board---not to court.

Just plain stupid.